openSUSE strategy discussion: Anylsis - What is a distro community doing?

Following the strategy discussion it come clearer to me that I don’t know exactely

  1. What a distribution maintaining team is actually doing?

I suppose this is:

  • Selecting the software which should be shipped
  • Test the software; insure the quality
  • Bugfixing (upstream)
  • Apply patches (not upstream)
  • Contribute (new features) upstream (e.g. kernel, KDE, GNOME, …)
  • Define and introduce sane defaults
  • Create the distro branding / design and adapt the software so it looks unique
  • Write and add own programs (e.g. YAST)
  • Packaging, packaging and packaging all the software
  • Make it distributable (SuSE Studio? Build Service?)
  • Distribute it (offer download)
  • Writing dokumentation (wiki etc.)
  • Providing support for a) developers, b) poweruser, c) enduser (forum, irc, mailinglists, …)
  • Marketing, Promotion, Lobbying (events, universities, schools, governments, industry, …)
  1. How many resources (time) do these activities get at the moment?

Please add the missing points in the list and give your opinion on the amount of resources (e.g. in percent) that is invested in the different tasks at the moment.

Come on! I know you are here. I am watching you! Yes you! And I know you know something. Perhaps you think it’s not that important. But it is. What are you doing for openSUSE? How much time do you invest per month or week?

So please leave your comment. Don’t just watch, write!

ungethym wrote:
> Following the strategy discussion it come clearer to me that I don’t
> know exactely
>
> 1. What a distribution maintaining team is actually doing?
>
> 2. How many resources (time) do these activities get at the moment?
> [snip second post scolding]
> So please leave your comment. Don’t just watch, write!

why do you think anyone here knows what a “distribution maintaining
team” is doing? or how their time is allotted?

first: there is not just one team, there are several…check out:
http://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Teams

second: most of the members of those teams are plenty busy with real
life, job, families, etc (like you) and all the time they can devote
(and donate) to the distribution is spent on their team’s work…the
coordination of that work being done in mail lists
<http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Communication_channels#Mailing_lists>
and on IRC channels
<http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Communication_channels#Instant_chat_.28IRC.29>…

consequently there are VERY few of those ‘maintainers’ hanging out in
these fora waiting to answer your excellent and thought provoking
questions…

so, let me ask you: Why do you ask? well, for what ever reason you
are welcome to ask and sit back and watch the answers pile up…

btw: you asked “How much time do you invest per month or week?” i put
in somewhere around 35 or more (sometimes far more) hours per seven
day week…others give a lot more…

how about you Thomas, how much time do you give to the KDE Promo team?
and, have you joined an openSUSE team yet?


DenverD
CAVEAT: http://is.gd/bpoMD [posted via NNTP w/openSUSE 10.3]

This is the place where the discussion about the strategy takes place. So I assumed some of non-forum-contributors have a look here at least now.
The communication between forum and the rest of the community (via IRC or mailinglists) work very well in KDE. And the KDE forum is visited by developers as well.

Thank you! This one was really a winner. This gives me a much better picture of the work and people involved. (But I haven’t found you in the forum section.) I knew here were people knowing much more than I do.

I wanted to know where the most work is done at the moment. Is it developing SuSE Studio, OBS and YaST, or is it packing, or patching, or what ever.
This has consequences for the strategy. When there is no patching and when packaging is automated so it does not take much time it makes sense to offer a large amount of software. In this case the costs of focusing on special software is not a good option. In the other case, when 80% of the energy is used for resolving dependencies and maintaining all the packages then the reduction of packages or the search for better solutions is a good way.

That is tremendous! I am really impressed. Respect!

That’s a good question, too. My contributions are not constant. But I guess it will be about 2h per week for KDE; perhaps more. I can not count it. So not worth to mention it.
For the openSUSE strategy I invested a couple of more hours (or days) the last weeks.
I feel myself as a member of the outer openSUSE community. I am spreading openSUSE and helping in this discussion. I am not an official openSUSE “member”.

Thanks for your, again, enlightening answer.

ungethym wrote:
> DenverD;2205342 Wrote:
>> why do you think anyone here knows what a “distribution
>> maintaining team” is doing? or how their time is allotted?
>
> This is the place where the discussion about the strategy takes
> place. So I assumed some of non-forum-contributors have a look here
> at least now.

AH! you have discovered one of (imHo) our weaknesses…

you assume this is the place where strategy is discussed…a logical
assumption, but wrong…

this is only the place where forum participants discuss strategy…

however, the place that counts (that is, the place where about 98%
(or more) of the only people who can VOTE on what gets picked, that
is ‘openSUSE Members’ <http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Members>) is in
the mail list named opensuse-project

archives are available at http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/

the fun begins somewhere near:
http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2010-06/msg00265.html

> The communication between forum and the rest of the community (via
> IRC or mailinglists) work very well in KDE. And the KDE forum is
> visited by developers as well.

sorry i can’t say the same about this community…
here we have a divide…

> I wanted to know where the most work is done at the moment. Is it
> developing SuSE Studio, OBS and YaST, or is it packing, or
> patching, or what ever. This has consequences for the strategy.
> When there is no patching and when packaging is automated so it
> does not take much time it makes sense to offer a large amount of
> software. In this case the costs of focusing on special software is
> not a good option. In the other case, when 80% of the energy is
> used for resolving dependencies and maintaining all the packages
> then the reduction of packages or the search for better solutions
> is a good way.

i may be wrong, but i’d guess there are only a few who visit here who
might be able to answer those questions…some of all of those may or
may not see your post here…

however those few here and practically all the other developers/votes
will see you in the mail list…

HOWEVER: i’d suggest you read all the relevant archives since the fun
started in mid-June…well, there is a history before that
also…but, i don’t know where the ‘strategy discussion team’ held
their planning discussions before the general poll
<http://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php?t=432453> often cited as
proof (for example) that to grow the community we need to focus on
making the power users and developers happy, as Job One!

>> btw: you asked “How much time do you invest per month or week?” i
>> put in somewhere around 35 or more (sometimes far more) hours
>> per seven day week…others give a lot more…
>
> That is tremendous! I am really impressed. Respect!

don’t be…
i’m retired and i do what i wanna do and say what i wanna say…
and, it doesn’t take a lot of time to manage my investments…

> I feel myself as a member of the outer openSUSE community. I am
> spreading openSUSE and helping in this discussion. I am not an
> official openSUSE “member”.

one of the first questions i asked was if one has to be an “an
official openSUSE ‘member’” to be a member of “the Community”

i think i understand now that all contributors can consider themselves
a member of “the Community” but they can vote on the direction of
openSUSE until and unless they are “an official openSUSE ‘member’”

a self selected group of 431 that closely control who gets in, and who
does not…

i’m not a member, i applied one day, then read this, which was
directly answering my question trying to understand my place in the
openSUSE food chain/pecking order:

http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2010-06/msg00537.htm

and, i immediately revoked my application…and went back to trying
to help new folks…


DenverD
CAVEAT: http://is.gd/bpoMD [posted via NNTP w/openSUSE 10.3]

DenverD wrote:
> i think i understand now that all contributors can consider themselves
> a member of “the Community” but they can vote on the direction of
> openSUSE until and unless they are “an official openSUSE ‘member’”

i see now that i missed an important not and few clarifying words in
that ramble, it should read:

i think i understand now that all contributors can consider themselves
a member of “the openSUSE Community” but they can NOT vote for the
board, nor the direction of openSUSE takes (the strategy) until and
unless they apply for and are accepted as contributors who have
“brought a continued and substantial contribution to the project”, and
are approved by the selection committee to be “an official openSUSE
‘member’”

cite: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Members


DenverD
CAVEAT: http://is.gd/bpoMD [posted via NNTP w/openSUSE 10.3]