There is something wrong with openSUSE release cycle. 11.0 is released shortly before KDE 4.1, 11.1 shortly before KDE 4.2, etc. Why releasing a distribution with 4-5 month DE which will receive a significant update in about a month? Why not to release new openSUSE 2-3 week after new KDE release? After all openSUSE is known as the best KDE distro!
With situation we have now, during most of the lifetime of every openSUSE release the user have to update a significant of the system right after installing the OS! They really have no other choice: KDE 4.0 to 4.1 and 4.1 to 4.2 are sighnificant steps!
LXj42 wrote:
> There is something wrong with openSUSE release cycle. 11.0 is released
> shortly before KDE 4.1, 11.1 shortly before KDE 4.2, etc. Why releasing
> a distribution with 4-5 month DE which will receive a significant update
> in about a month? Why not to release new openSUSE 2-3 week after new KDE
> release? After all openSUSE is known as the best KDE distro!
>
And after KDE 4.2 is released, we should wait for XFCE 4.4 and the
stable full release of Enlightenment 17 and…ten thousand other packages.
> With situation we have now, during most of the lifetime of every
> openSUSE release the user have to update a significant of the system
> right after installing the OS! They really have no other choice: KDE 4.0
> to 4.1 and 4.1 to 4.2 are sighnificant steps!
>
Unless the user doesn’t use KDE.
> And I actually started to have problems with KDE after upgrading to
> 4.1. Sound didn’t work anymore (‘and I couldn’t get any valuable help on
> that’ (http://tinyurl.com/3ndq8w)). Kopete crashed all the time (’“try
> meebo.com”’ (http://tinyurl.com/3jt2os)? Thanks for trying to help, but
> no). Why not to provide fully tested and production ready new KDE
> shortly after it’s out, not in 4-5 months?
>
IMO because the distro isn’t based on or revolves around KDE. There are
other desktop environments that people use and if you start waiting for
one then you need to wait for them all. Especially after the
announcement years ago that there was no longer going to be a default
desktop.
I remember that thread, and I declined to participate in it. From what I recall, sound did work well for you in mplayer, but not from Phonon-based apps.
A “pet peeve” (not sure if those are the best words to describe) of mine is the loss of users who are disappointed with openSUSE because basic sound does not work. Most the time “basic” (not advanced) sound is easily sortable, with a bit of knowledge. Hence I try hard to help users in that condition, and over 1/2 of my posts are helping users with their sound.
Since mplayer worked for you, and since I do not use KDE4, I had nothing to offer in solving Phonon based problems. Hence I declined to participate (as at most I could only provide inaccurate speculations).
> On 09/26/2008 LXj42 wrote:
>> Why not to provide fully tested and production ready new KDE shortly
>> after it’s out, not in 4-5 months?
>
> Because “fully tested and production ready” contradicts “shortly after
> it’s out”.
>
> Uwe
I am not asking to release new openSUSE the same day as new KDE comes out. But Ubuntu follows closely Gnome release cycle and seems doing well. openSUSE doesn’t follow Gnome’s or KDE’s release cycle. In fact when it comes to KDE openSUSE has the worst mistiming! At the same time seems like openSUSE’s developers efforts on KDE front are most successful (at least following KDE Planet gave me that idea).
I am not blaming anyone in particular for not helping me with my problems. But I think if openSUSE 11 included KDE 4.1 (4.1.1?) instead of 4.0, I wouldn’t have a problem of not being able to use Amarok 2 (which relies on Phonon) and Kopete. I can’t use KDE apps on a best KDE distribution around (or at least it’s known to be such a distribution)!
And there is a major difference: Gnome has a set-time release cycle of every six months. Ubuntu can plan around that with ease when readying their own product. The KDE project has no such time constrained release cycle. Which is why even Kubuntu can not do what you are suggesting.
I think that is very inaccurate. I think instead you mean to state you can’t use KDE4.
KDE-3.5.9 works fine on openSUSE-11.0 and it was noted on the installation page as being the more mature of the KDE offerings.
Hence the criticism wrt apps not being able to be used on openSUSE-11.0 distribution wrt KDE in general is not accurate due to the excellent and stable behaviour of KDE-3.5.9.
I am not interested in getting into a openSUSE-11.0 bashing thread. … but rather I think it helps if some accuracy is applied to the specific general comment about KDE. Lets be specific and state KDE-4.0.4.
By the way, there are liveCDs available from the openSUSE community for openSUSE-11.0 KDE-3.5.9 and also openSUSE-11.0 KDE-4.1.1. KDE-4.1.1 is much more mature than 4.0.4 and as noted, there is an liveCD for 4.1.1 (where openSUSE is installable).
On 09/28/2008 LXj42 wrote:
> But I think if openSUSE 11 included KDE 4.1 (4.1.1?) instead of 4.0,
> I wouldn’t have a problem of not being able to use Amarok 2 (which
> relies on Phonon) and Kopete.
I also think including KDE4 in Opensuse 11.0 was a mistake. So you want them to make the same mistake again, with KDE 4.2?
In Opensuse 11.1 you’ll have a rather mature KDE 4.1, in Opensuse 11.2 KDE 4.2 etc.
Where’s the problem? Patience, young Padavan
Actually, while this was true prior to KDE 4, it seems that KDE now also has a six-month schedule, with major releases scheduled in January and July, with minor updates once a month. And if OpenSUSE is also on a six-month schedule, this would mean that OpenSUSE would always release one month prior to a major KDE release. Which means on the one hand, OpenSUSE’s KDE 4 releases will have had 5 months of added stability, it also means that OpenSUSE users will have to wait 5 months to get the latest new features, unless they always use the Factory builds instead.
My personal preference would be to have OpenSUSE release a new KDE version no more than a month/month-and-a-half after KDE releases a new version, similar to how Ubuntu does it with GNOME. Though, while I understand KDE wanting to release in January and July, it would probably make more sense for KDE to adjust their schedule, perhaps to match GNOME’s schedule, that way it’s easier for distros to build around the two most popular DE’s. Plus GNOME (and I assume OpenSUSE as well) have had their schedule set for a while, while KDE only just started.
Anyway, that’s my thoughts on the situation. But I guess unless one or the other changes their schedule, I’ll be sticking with Factory builds (right now the changes with each release of KDE 4 are too great for me to want to stick with the old one for too long… I could never go back to KDE 4.0 at this point, and probably not even KDE 3.5 either save for the few apps KDE 4 doesn’t have yet).
I’m just thinking back at some of the breakages that have happened with the 4.1 release schedule. There hasn’t been many, but there has been enough that if it was released as a the current supported version, there would be a lot of complaints coming in. IS it not better to use a more stable, used version and allow those who want to use 4.2 to do so at their own risk through factory?
Just as the newest version of KDE is being released, the “older” version should be as de-bugged and stable as ever. OpenSUSE should give you a good solid starting point, and then if you want to jump into the next bleeding edge verions that is your choice and comes with all the warranties and issues appropriately.
Since the release is 4-5 or 6 months then that’s not bad. If it were every 18 months or 5 years then that would be a bit much …
i think suse could do more to schedule well with KDE.
going with KDE 4.04 when 4.1 was shortly to be available was… odd, and don’t give me guff about wanting stable x.x.X releases, everyone considers the 4.1 backports to be much better than 4.0.4. i do appreciate that this was a unique situation, and that generally x.x.X releases are a better choice.
but coming out one month before the latest x.X.x release is daft, because yes, most suse users are KDE users.
> but coming out one month before the latest x.X.x release is daft,
Yes. They should roll it, shake it for a few weeks and then release.
I’d expect similar schedule shuffling if a GNOME release was due.
I don’t buy the stability argument either since many incremental upgrades
SOLVE problems and add sorely lacking features.
> And having worked with KDE4.1 for a while now, I wonder why. I’m seriously
> pondering switching to Gnome.
Go ahead and try it Uwe, I imagine you’ll end up gnashing your teeth.
KDE 4 makes you gnash I’m sure, but with Gnome it’ll be a different
gnashing. I’ve tried it many times, I always end up back at KDE.
It has some cool stuff, but it also can be a serious burden.
