OpenSUSE Leap 16 not ready yet?

Hi OpenSUSE community,

if you want to skip text bellow, my question is: Is Leap 16 really ready for deployment?

As for issues, maybe first here are some with the installer:

  • agama installer missing Update feature, the one 99% of users need at this early stage after release…
  • agama installer doesn’t fire up from the installation menu on one computer at all, even with failsafe and different tweaks.
  • the new boot menu doesn’t AFAIK contain ways to change keyboard layout like the old one, so good luck when you type and the password gets gibberish instead

So I followed alternative way and updated Leap by connecting Leap 16 repository and performing update. Systems boots into login screen, but Plasma crashes into restart, IceWM is drunk. And this is older computer with very average hardware. It seems there are so many issues, that fixing them would take like a week, I guess.
I wasn’t able to update meaningfully neither my older workstation, nor my laptop. I haven’t even try my hi-spec primary workstation.

So is it even worth trying to install Leap 16 at the moment? It looks like an alpha release to me, not what we expect from Leap… I don’t think it’s the hardware, previous Leaps updates worked like a charm. In fact, I haven’t seen anything close to this in my 27 years with SuSE/OpenSUSE.

Do you have a success update story? Or do you have also so many issues?
It’s not the end of the world, if I should wait, it’s just good to know the situation.

Best regards,

Oak

2 Likes

I also agree that Leap 16 is not ready. As it breaks many users.

Packman finally became available this week but here is what I see missing.

( I use MATE desktop and have to be on X11 not wayland).

There is no Mozilla repo for Leap 16 so those that need the non-lts version cannot update as we loose everything in Firefox if we do. Many users discovered that Banks and Finance institutions insist that Firefox has to be last weeks or this weeks version, the long term version at 128 and the latest at 130 will give a unsupported browser message to the user. That is when I had to convert every leap 15.6 user to the Mozilla repo to get the latest version.

I also have had a couple of failures to do the leap 16 updates.
I always make a dd backup of the drive before and update to a large hard drive and and validate it by dd the backup to /dev/null to make sure it can be restored. (Old disasters force new habits).

There is no x11vnc program - for those that support remote machines with x11vnc, you cannot just switch to tigervnc.
This is a no go for the 90 folks that I support. What is sad, it was in the alpha release of 16.

1 Like

Thank you for the constructive comments. Good to know for sure it’s not just my machines. Reading more on the forums about all the issues confirms this situation too. I’m sure it will eventually get fixed, but for now I’m giving up the update.

Use flatpaks for Mozilla, will be even quicker than the repository (which likely consumes lots of resources and maintainer time)?

So, anyone ever though about helping in testing the pre-release versions? :person_shrugging:

Way back when, it was always suggested that with all the Leap 16.0 changes it would be better with a fresh install, but that changed and migration tool added. I opted for fresh installs and sure, the installer has it’s quirks (nvidia/nomodeset for one), but worked around those fine… even switched one to systemd-boot and that was fine as well.

How long have users been advised that Wayland was going to be used and X11 on the way out? :person_shrugging:

Test system one - Home build Intel Canyon M/B circa 2012, Software RAID, no desktop, k3s node
Test system two - Dell Optiplex Micro 3080 Circa 2021, GNOME DE Intel GPU
Test system three - Dell Optiplex XE3 circa 2021, GNOME DE Intel GPU/Nvidia T400 GPU
Test system four - Dell 5820 XL Tower circa 2021, no desktop, Hardware RAID 1 for OS, Hardware RAID 5 storage/system rsync backup, k3s compute node Nvidia Tesla P4/Nvidia Quadro P400

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Here is why x11vnc fails

Warning: x11vnc is deprecated in favor of x0vncserver.
This is a wrapper that maps the most common set of x11vnc
arguments to x0vncserver arguments.

     Use x0vncserver directly if you want encrypted connection.
usage: x11vnc [-help] [--version] [-storepasswd STOREPASSWD STOREPASSWD]
              [-display DISPLAY] [-auth AUTH] [-N] [-rfbport RFBPORT]
              [-autoport AUTOPORT] [-6] [-no6] [-forever] [-viewonly]
              [-alwaysshared] [-nevershared] [-dontdisconnect] [-clip CLIP]
              [-deferupdate DEFERUPDATE] [-noshm] [-rfbauth RFBAUTH] [-nopw]
              [-unixpw UNIXPW] [-v]
x11vnc: error: unrecognized arguments: -nap -wait 50 -noxdamage -passwd mypassword -o ~llrainey/x11vnc.log -bg

The wrapper is useless

The assumption is everyone knows flatpaks.

How am I going to change dozens of links to firefox to flatpak firefox.

I did alpha test and beta test Leap 16. It is hard to see if everything works when many items you use daily are from Packman repo.

I filled out bugzilla on problems. I did get VirtualBox guest additions for Beta working.

I am still waiting for VirtualBox 7.2.2 for Leap 16.

Hi Malcolm,

don’t get me wrong, I don’t have hard feelings about that, the situation is what it is. Maybe I’m little sad, because I’ve recently advised some young IT colleagues experimenting with Linux to check out OpenSUSE and this is not going to shed very good light on the distro.

So, anyone ever though about helping in testing the pre-release versions?

Yes, sure, thought. I believe I did, when I was much younger and had no kids. And I still do FOSS and this is how it works. It doesn’t matter that I don’t help OpenSUSE in broader scope, if I add to the overall basket. Everyone can’t do everything, right? :slight_smile:

How long have users been advised that Wayland was going to be used and X11 on the way out?

I’m not sure if I understand it correctly, but if I do, it’s not how it works and how you build trust. IMHO if we want more people using our distro, we really need user’s satisfaction and build up their confidence. So I think if Leap 16 was half a year late, but up to the standard of the previous releases, it would be much better situation to have. The feeling of this state I get (again, just my experience) is not even RC.

If everyone else is having different experience and you think it is up tho the Leap standars, then fine :slight_smile: . I’d be pleased, if that was the situation.

1 Like

I installed the flatpak firefox.
It does not see any of the installed add-on nor does it have any of the saved bookmarks.
And it is firejailed so I cannot save anything permanently.

Um, export/import should work, that’s all I’ve done here on Google Chrome? Use Flatseal to allow access to where/what you want…

Are you for real?? It’s the openSUSE projects fault that you use a third party repository, suggest you take those complaints there as that’s a self inflicted issue.

I’ve used the built in virtualization tools without any major problems over the years, even Cockpit (I use the flatpak client version) has support to create/manage VM’s if present…

If you know what these options do - read man x0vncserver and find the equivalent options. If you do not know what these options do - why are you using them?

1 Like

I avoid flatpak if I can in favor of appImage. I find it a little easier to use and tweak. But even with flatpak, you should be able to get add-ons, extensions and save files to the hosting system, right? I do updates and mods of appImage applications form within the package.
Firefox apparently does have official appImage releases.

Hi, but the push to drop X11 goes back many years, if your favorite desktop or application has no desire to support or get it functional, then not sure what anyone can do…

Don’t get me wrong, every release gets it’s grumbles and nay-sayers, but Leap 16.0 is a bigger step than normal for sure.

Likewise my focus is on the GNOME DE, so at present that’s all working fine sofar :wink:

1 Like

Flatpak Totem installed on Leap 16.0, hardware decoding working on the Intel GPU (Nvidia T400 is for Prime Render Offload)… No Packman in sight…

Edit, that system is also connected to a 15" Touchscreen (over USB) which also work OTB.

( and @oakld …)

You’ll have to do an Export in the native version of FF, then do an Import in the Flatpak version of FF.

The Flatpak (user-configuration) instance of an application, is created in a completely independent (separate) location, to include a Profile path that is unknown to the bare-metal (native) installation of the same application.
Each of those installs of the same application have no idea about the other packaged version … and even when running side-by-side :slight_smile:

Here’s a quick example … supposed I want to find all occurrences of the “GPUCache” sub-directory for my browser apps. So, I’ll execute as in the following with the results.

See the last two entries for Google Chrome Unstable? That’s the Flatpak version of Google installed … the other installs above it are for the native versions of Chrome (using native Google repos, not the openSUSE versions).

So those Flatpak versions have their “config” paths in “~/.var/app …”.
And the native versions have their config paths in ~/.config

user@mach :~> find . -name GPUCache* -ls
drwx------ Sep 23 09:05 ./.config/BraveSoftware/Brave-Browser/Default/GPUCache
drwx------ Oct  5 10:24 ./.config/BraveSoftware/Brave-Browser-Beta/Default/GPUCache
drwx------ Apr  8  2024 ./.config/google-chrome/Default/GPUCache
drwx------ Nov  6  2024 ./.config/google-chrome-beta/Default/GPUCache
drwx------ Nov  6  2024 ./.config/google-chrome-beta/Default/Storage/ext/nmmhkkegccagdldgiimedpiccmgmieda/def/GPUCache
drwx------ Nov  6  2024 ./.config/google-chrome-unstable/Default/GPUCache
drwx------ Nov  6  2024 ./.config/google-chrome-unstable/Default/Storage/ext/nmmhkkegccagdldgiimedpiccmgmieda/def/GPUCache
drwx------ Feb 17  2025 ./.config/chromium/Default/GPUCache
[ ...]
drwx------ Oct  2 19:36 ./.var/app/com.google.ChromeDev/config/google-chrome-unstable/Default/GPUCache
drwx------ Oct  2 19:36 ./.var/app/com.google.ChromeDev/config/google-chrome-unstable/Default/Storage/ext/nmmhkkegccagdldgiimedpiccmgmieda/def/GPUCache
user@mach :~>

As far as Leap 16. Personally, I’ll continue to use Leap 15.6, as it’ll be maintained until the first quarter 2026 … that should be enough time to work out the kinks.

It’s a bit ironic in a way, that the agama installer and Firefox are mentioned in the thread (but yea, agama makes sense for the thread).

Guess what?? The agama installer runs inside Firefox, so relies on it:
.

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I set up x11vnc 22 years ago. Why replace it with a wrapper when it still works. I guess SLES dropped it so Leap did too, It was in Slowroll, could the source x11vnc from Tumbleweed/Slowroll be compiled for Leap 16?

What will do a vnc session when wayland is the only option? rdp (the Microsoft answer to vnc) is not what vnc users want. When you have 22 years of support to replace. I did get everyone I support moved to intel gen8 cpu’s or newer. I used the same way I moved them from single core to core 2 cpus to move them from core 2 to gen 8 cpus. An ethernet cable with an end that says old computer and and end that says new computer. and a script that move the old home directory to the new computer and the old opt directory to the new computer. 85 computers were down - only one had an issue that that was the hard drive was failing and I had to copy from the weekly backup drive to get everything moved.

Like most of the folks I support, we are old, I am the next youngest at 74.
We moved off Windows after XP because it changed. Gnome looked like what we were used to.
Gnome changed, but old Gnome became MATE. It still looks like Windows XP.

We started in redhat, then fedora, then Opensuse. I figured out how to update without starting over.

When you have legacy programs running in wine with entries in the menu, a fresh install looses all of that. Now you have to find drives for the printers, set up wifi (most have no idea what their wifi password is). With people that cannot find the power button on their laptop (it used to be on the side, it used to be above the f8 key, it is on the keyboard beside the backspace key).

Think about supporting the end users, these changes are why few windows abandoners are choosing OpenSUSE
Ubuntu and Mint Linux are much more Windows friendly as MATE is a standard desktop, KDE and Gnome are not Windows users expecting when they try the live versions of Leap Software. so they go on to Mint MATE and stay.

Wayland is what governments want for their security. Most non-business windows users have no idea about security, which is why so many loose their money. I tell all those I support not to allow anyone on their Windows computers, but they are old and 2 so far have lost over $80,000 from their savings and checking “Because Microsoft and Verizon called saying they needed access to fix a security problem”. So far not a penny has been recovered.

One windows user conferenced me in an I informed them that the FBI was tracing these calls and they hung up as soon as I said it. She did not loose a cent. She was shocked - the phone said Microsoft as the caller. I explained that it was easy to make any user appear as the caller.
I no longer have the desire to learn new stuff because it might be better. I do not like change, I have become Sheldon Cooper for that.

I wrote a parallel init bootup for Walmart in 1996. It did what systemd does today. systemd does not make it any simpler.

The computer is supposed to be a tool. Not something that has to be relearned because someone want to stop supporting a legacy program that worked fine for 99% of the world (X11).

I have had enough of making changes. Teamviewer said I was commercial, so I changed to Anydesk, they said I was commercial, so I changed to Rustdesk, atleast Rustdesk lets me be my own host.

ssh and x11vnc have be the lifeline to the people I support. The have an emergency USB drive that automatically connects me to see them via a gateway box.

I can mount and fix their programs remotely. Once I get connected I can vnc to that USB drive to do things faster.

I do cannot afford to buy another 90 USB drives to hand out with Leap 16. Tumbleweed caused me issues that I know none of those I support could have fixed. I gave up on Slowroll as things I needed stopped working and I have to get appimages to work around the problems.

Maybe the correct thing that OpenSUSE could do is make 15.6 a 5 year release and forget 16.0. and just offer security fixes. Let commercial folks buy a SLES license. I did for TTM (Total Transaction Management is a company that supports Walmart and many other customers like Lufthansa and many Casinos .)

You cannot export the Firefox info after you update - it will only let you see a new profile.

https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/ is where I have sourced the Firefoxes I have been using since before Firefox 1.0 was released over 20 years ago. They are installed as follows:

# rpm -qa | grep -E 'fox|monk|moon'
# ls -1d /usr/local/ff*
/usr/local/ff102
/usr/local/ff115
/usr/local/ff128
/usr/local/ff140
/usr/local/ffe91
/usr/local/ffnxt
/usr/local/fftst
/usr/local/ffx

Each release has its own profile:

> ls -1d .mozilla/ff*
.mozilla/ff102
.mozilla/ff115
.mozilla/ff128
.mozilla/ff140
.mozilla/ffe91
.mozilla/ffnxt
.mozilla/fftst
.mozilla/ffx

I start each of them using a dedicated .desktop file:

> ls -1d /usr/local/share/applications/*ire*
/usr/local/share/applications/Firefox102.desktop
/usr/local/share/applications/Firefox115.desktop
/usr/local/share/applications/Firefox128.desktop
/usr/local/share/applications/Firefox140.desktop
/usr/local/share/applications/FirefoxCur.desktop
/usr/local/share/applications/FirefoxE91.desktop
/usr/local/share/applications/FirefoxNxt.desktop
/usr/local/share/applications/FirefoxTst.desktop
/usr/local/share/applications/FirefoxX.desktop

Thus, I can run multiple versions at once, without them interfering with each other.

> ps -A | grep -E 'fox|moon|monk'
 3541 ?        16:46:34 seamonkey
 3741 ?        00:51:49 palemoon
 3886 ?        00:43:21 firefox
 7796 ?        00:00:11 firefox-bin
 8382 ?        00:00:10 firefox-bin
 8745 ?        00:00:02 falkon
23532 ?        13:34:44 seamonkey

I have yet to install any flatpak.

The openSUSE project does not control Packman. Complaining about the availability, or lack thereof, of packages or distributions on Packman, here on the openSUSE Forum is quite literally pointless.

2 Likes

Yes, I do and, I waited until the Packman repository became available, but –

  • It’s rather long – I’ll put it in a new post in a day or two –
Operating System: openSUSE Leap 16.0
KDE Plasma Version: 6.4.2
KDE Frameworks Version: 6.16.0
Qt Version: 6.9.1
Kernel Version: 6.12.0-160000.5-default (64-bit)
Graphics Platform: Wayland
Processors: 8 × AMD Ryzen 5 3400G with Radeon Vega Graphics
Memory: 32 GiB of RAM (29.3 GiB usable)
Graphics Processor: AMD Radeon Vega 11 Graphics
Manufacturer: ASUS

Yes, I have suffered crashes and, the system hanging …

  • But, everything has quietened down over the last couple of days. :sunglasses:

Yes, I had to open a KDE Bug Report – <KOrganizer change to view To-Do - crash with signal: Aborted>

  • When Leap 16 moves to KDE Plasma Release 25.08 that’ll probably be resolved.

I used the new “opensuse-migration-tool” to perform the upgrade – it didn’t quite perform as advertised – I’m still on AppArmour – it didn’t prompt me to change to SELinux …

The big secret seems to be, to keep the list of Repositories being used to a minimum – don’t try to use too many additional Repositories …

And, another secret seems to be –

  • Clean out each and every user’s ~/.cache/ directory – including the Cache directories of the user “root” and, the user “sddm” …

Moving from KDE Plasma 5 on X11 to KDE Plasma 6 on Wayland also involved some work to get my 32 inch HiDPI monitor to display sensible font sizes. The monitor’s ICC profile had to be setup for each human user on the system.

  • Graphics colours seem to be fairly accurate – digiKam is behaving as it should do – photography work-flow progresses smoothly and, the colour rendition of 20 mega-pixel Foveon pictures seems to be reasonably accurate.

A Java based Home-Banking application and Club Finance Management application is also behaving as it should do with the default Leap 16 OpenJDK 21 environment.