Hi!
I’m reading through the openSUSE strategy. First of all, probs for making your strategy public available. It’s nice to know what the idea behind the distro is and where it is heading.
Apparently it’s your goal to be the best distro for productive powerusers. I think that’s a good focus point but I wonder how you’ll reach the goal. What do you think makes openSUSE more suited for powerusers than Fedora or Ubuntu?
Oh and btw, I’m not asking because I think your wrong but because I’m curious.
I first installed Suse 7.9 (worked out of the box) and ever since. Tried Kbuntu, Fedora, Debian and Mandriva. Out of those 4 , Mandriva was the best, my subjective view.
IMO the best feature in openSuSE is Yast !!!..
What’s so great about Yast? What can it do that the tools in Fedora can’t do?
paldepind wrote:
> What’s so great about Yast? What can it do that the toolst in Fedora
> can’t do?
it does a bunch of stuff, i’d suggest you boot from a live CD and have
a look…i can’t tell you what it has or does not have in relation to
toolst, because the last time i ran Fedora was about v2, and i don’t
remember anything about it…(same for Debian’s apt or however Snow
Leopard does theirs–no idea, sorry.)
as for your questions posed on “for the productive power user” you
just need to be aware that the strategy discussion is still in
discussion…you can find several others in the pot being stirred if
you look around
–
DenverD
When it comes to chocolate, resistance is futile.
CAVEAT: http://is.gd/bpoMD [posted via NNTP w/openSUSE 10.3]
Sorry, these’s nothing called toolst. It was a spelling mistake 
I was referring to the various tools that several distros use in stead of a central system tool.
I’ve just been checking it out on a LiveCD. It’s definitely a neat and useful program. But I don’t think it is a major argument for using SUSE.
Yes, I know that. I’m asking because I find the document is rather vague. Only stating that openSUSE should be the best option for powerusers. Not how it will reach that goal.
Try the ncurses version of YaST in a CLI … 
Not that it is better than the Qt or GtK version of course, but it works without a running X. Very comforting …
Actually I ignore the reference to Ub* because it doesn’t even come close.
Fedora is a good equal to openSUSE, though I do find YUM a little cumbersome. Yast software management and zypper have a definite edge over YUM. I’m running the Fedora 14 development ATM in a sandbox and it’s very nice. I also have the new Mint-Debian, a release that will interest those who like to live a little on the edge, though it’s been rock solid for me so far.
Anyway: Define ‘Power User’ - It’s all very subjective if you ask me. But in all honesty, I put SUSE and Fedora on equal footing, but SUSE is MY home.
I’m very interested in hearing why you think that.
No Ubuntu Firewall by default, you have to install / enable something.
Yast control centre in SUSE allows fully fledged management of things like ssh, ftp, samba etc… (Not so in Ub*)
I’m not a fan of sudo either - but that’s by the by
paldepind wrote:
> I don’t think it is a major argument for using SUSE.
you should use what works for you…and, so should everyone else…
i like YaST despite its shortcomings and faults…it does most of the
things i need to do, and does them pretty well…do i think it is the
golden egg that no one can live without? not a chance…
and, it is not why i’m here today…but, today i am here and if i
take another look at Fedora someday i’ll not start by asking: Why
don’t you folks have a YaST?
>> as for your questions posed on “for the productive power user”
> Yes, I know that. I’m asking because I find the document is rather
> vague. Only stating that openSUSE should be the best option for
> powerusers. Not how it will reach that goal.
most strategies i’ve dealt with are higher level woo-woo and by
definition more vague…
the ‘how to’ achieve the goal; hit the target; capture the flag; win
the contest; etc being left to the tactics/procedures/nmaneuvers/etc
which implement the agreed strategy…
next? [if you are looking for a “mine is bigger than yours” or “my
daddy can beat your daddy” discussion, you will have to wait for
someone else to jump in.]
–
DenverD
When it comes to chocolate, resistance is futile.
CAVEAT: http://is.gd/bpoMD [posted via NNTP w/openSUSE 10.3]
I agree with you on that. And that’s why I’m asking the question here, to find out how you’re going to implement it…
Dude, it’s a strategy, a plan. And it addresses openSUSE’s position compared to Ub* and Fedora.
I think you are missing the ‘Spirit’ of the whole open source belief. And you under estimate the power of that belief or even ‘Faith’ if you like, by the said community, in it’s ability to deliver. If enough people believe in a cause, not because they are told to but because they want to - and if enough people work with the community, not because they are told to but because they want to, then virually nothing will be unattainable.
So. How? = People power, desire, belief.
caf4926 wrote:
> So. How? = People power, desire, belief.
good job Carl…until i read yours i was gonna answer something like:
work
faith
vision
thought
teamwork
hard work
dedication
open source
elbow grease
collaboration
amazing effort
like that and more…
–
DenverD
When it comes to chocolate, resistance is futile.
CAVEAT: http://is.gd/bpoMD [posted via NNTP w/openSUSE 10.3]
So what you’r saying is that openSUSE for powerusers currently is nothing but a strategy and something that is going to happend in the future?
paldepind wrote:
> So what you’r saying is that openSUSE for powerusers currently is
> nothing but a strategy
as you yourself noted in your first post “I’m reading through the
openSUSE strategy.” so, yes it IS a strategy, and as mentioned it is
one of MANY under discussion…
> and something that is going to happend in the future?
i do not think anyone is trying to develop a strategy for
2005…though, many think the SUSE of that day was a power users dream!
and, a huge pile of folks who know a lot more than i do about things
*nix believe that the current state of openSUSE is already “A
distribution for the productive power user”…
especially when compared to many distros available…
and, some who come here from other/lesser distros complain that you
have to be a real power user to use it as a user!!
–
DenverD
My mommy is prettier than your mommy.
CAVEAT: http://is.gd/bpoMD [posted via NNTP w/openSUSE 10.3]
I don’t have time to pontificate your now slightly annoying drift. Sorry.
On Sun, 17 Oct 2010 10:06:01 +0000, paldepind wrote:
> So what you’r saying is that openSUSE for powerusers currently is
> nothing but a strategy and something that is going to happend in the
> future?
Strategy, Vision - it’s where we want to go. At this point, it’s one of
several proposed strategies.
How specifically we get there depends (a) on the final decision, and (b)
what it is that is determined about how to get there. First you decide
on a strategy, then you figure out how to get there.
We’re presently at the first stage - evaluating the different proposals
and deciding which proposal (or combination of proposals) accurately
reflects the desired goals.
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C
I’d like to say that the “If” condition in this very nice phrase has already been met. The open source communities are doing all this every day.
@OP on the power user aspect of *buntu: I don’t want to talk about this either. Like said, Yast (and then there’s loads of yast modules available, not installed by default) is a great system tool, with X and without, the *ubuntu’s don’t have a thing even near that. Mint neither.
I apologize for being annoying. It was definitely not my intention.
Just to make things clear: I’m not criticizing the strategy for being vague or for concerning the future. I do realize that that’s how a strategy is. Also I’m not questioning the openSUSE community’s ability to implement the selected strategy or asking how exactly how you’ll be doing it. I understand that the things I wrote made it sound so though and I apologize for that. All I really wanted to ask was what openSUSE offers powerusers but clearly I failed.
paldepind wrote:
> All I really wanted to ask was what openSUSE offers powerusers but
> clearly I failed.
what i’m about to write is just full of generalities and relative
statements (one distro relative to another):
and, if you want anything else (like a programming environment) you
have to wait and do that later, if ever…
otho: openSUSE 11.3 DVD offers the ‘poweruser’ KDE, GNOME, LXDE, XFCE,
and a full up no-DE version…
and an easy click to install a server version with a full complement
of server type apps for file server, print server, web server (LAMP),
internet gateway
and, Firefox, Opera, Konqueror, Lynx, Linx and maybe some other
browsers i don’t know about, and OpenOffice Word, AbiWord and i guess
some others. and and and and and
and, an easy click to install a full up programmer dream with a very
complete select of applications for development of kde, gnome, .NET, C
and C++, web development, YaST Development, Ruby on Rails, Python,
linux kernel development, Ruby, Qt4 and a variety of other programmer
stuff…
not to mention a wide variety of system admin tools and editors (XML,
LaTeX, emacs, etc etc etc)
in other words lots and lots of ‘geeky’ stuff is either default or one
or two clicks away installed…things that some distros absolutely do
not make available during the initial install and maybe not even
packaged for the distro at all (may have to compile to install—we
have a repo/packaging system with thousands of applications)
some distros spend a lot of time trying to make the distro very
VERY friendly to the user with no *nix experience…to do that they
must vastly reduce the decisions that can be made during install and
setup…this is great for the n00b but for the ‘poweruser’ who
really wants to tweak the magic blah blah s/he first has to hunt until
the dial for that is found…see, it must be hidden to keep the
n00b from twisting the dial and killing the new system…
probably some stuff i’m forgetting. (others chime in?)
as i think i mentioned earlier–i’m not familiar with the current
offerings of Fedora (which i think you are) but i know it might be
that Fedora/Red Hat/CentOS all have these same system design
goals–and, if they work for you use them! and, i pretty sure i would
agree with you that Fedora is also built for the ‘poweruser’ (and
Red Hat for the enterprise)…
i know this: if i need to leave here, there is an infinitely greater
chance i’ll go to Fedora/CentOS or Debian and not Linspire-Xandros,
Ylmf or *buntu…
see?
–
DenverD
When it comes to chocolate, resistance is futile.
CAVEAT: http://is.gd/bpoMD [posted via NNTP w/openSUSE 10.3]