openSUSE and Novell

English Open Chat
#1

Hello! :slight_smile:

I’ve been a long time away from the “RPM Family” and using the “Debian Family” of Linux Distributions. I wish to change that and “re-discover” the first, as when joining the words “Linux” and “Enterprise” (if one day I hope to use Linux at some future job/work and not only at home just because I like it better than any other O.S.) only two company names really come to mind: Red Hat and Novell. And their Linux are RPM-Based.

When “googleing” for “fedora opensuse” (whitout the quotes), it’s clear on many forums and blogs that openSUSE fits better my needs and is even viewed more favorably by most users than Fedora. Among other things, its primary focus on KDE would be good to throw me away from my “GTK+ Comfort Zone” and it’s claimed by many to fit well both the roles of a Desktop and a Server environment.

But when searching “Novell” and “Red Hat”, I’ve found some concerning posts/blog entries about the first “losing ground” on the Enterprise market to the second.

I don’t know if that’s true, because all of this was based purely on google search. But it raised me some concerns that I would like to address here at the Forums before formally trying openSUSE for the first time (and maybe in some months help on any way, even if only beta testing future packages because I’m already a bit experienced with Linux):

  • What is the relation between SUSE and openSUSE compared to Red Hat and Fedora? What are the main differences?

  • Is there any data that points to the contrary, that SUSE is actually stable or growing and not losing Enterprise market to Red Hat? (Globally speaking of course and not only considering Europe and/or US)

  • Last but not least, what would happen to openSUSE if Novell one day would just close its doors? Is it’s user and developer base large enough to continue the project independently of sponsorship?

Thanks in advance for any answers. And remember that the points that I’ve raised here are based solely on google search and not on any “real” data that I could bring or point out.

Best Regards.

#2

On 2014-04-30, icmp request <icmp_request@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
> - What is the relation between SUSE and openSUSE compared to Fedora and
> Red Hat? What are the main differences?

For someone to ask this question, that person would have to have had experience using not only Fedora and RHEL but also
openSUSE AND SLED/SLES. Consequently, you might have more luck posting this question to the Enterprise forums (i.e.
Red-Hat and SUSE Enterprise) rather than the community forum here.

> - Is there any data that points to the contrary, that SUSE is actually
> stable or growing and not losing market to Red Hat? (Globally speaking
> of course and not only considering Europe and/or US)

Do you mean openSUSE? If so, no. Current metrics are very unreliable, but they indicate that openSUSE (always a green
line!) numbers have stayed flat for many years. If you mean SUSE, you need to ask the SUSE forum. My guess is no but
don’t take my word for it.

> - Last but not least, what would happen to openSUSE if Novell one day
> would just close its doors? Is it’s user and developer base large enough
> to continue the project independently of sponsorship?

Interviews with SUSE staff have always indicated that SUSE needs openSUSE more than the other way round, but perhaps
they’re just being nice :). With the SUSE/openSUSE project having lasted nearly two decades, if you’re worried about
it’s longevity, then no distro will satisfy you.

> Thanks in advance for any answers. And remember that the points that
> I’ve raised here are based solely on google search and not on any “real”
> data that I could bring or point out.

There is a distinct lack of data if you’re talking about GNU/Linux distribution market share represented using
definitive statistics. However I have a few suggestions for you because your post seems to suggest you’re trying to
decide between Fedora and openSUSE:

  1. A decision based on market share of their Enterprise equivalents is probably one of the most arbitrary one you could
    make.
  2. Posting to an openSUSE forum is likely to give you biased answers. Try posting your questions in others (e.g.
    Fedora’s) or neutral forums (e.g. linux.com).
  3. It’s easy to waste a lot of time trying to decide between distributions, because GNU/Linux is essentially GNU/Linux.
  4. Try both Fedora and openSUSE and decide on keeping one if you prefer it, or keep both as a dual install if you want.
  5. If you decide in the end to change then switching between RPM distros is not usually a big deal.
#3

It’s not much about deciding between Fedora and OpenSUSE because of their features or usability. It’s about both being sponsored by the 2 Linux companies that have the most part of the Enterprise Market and having read some concerning posts about Novell’s future. Maybe your post suggesting to ask on SUSE’s Forums just show how independent openSUSE is from Novell (and it’s a good thing), or maybe it’s something to consider doing.

In either way, thanks for the answers.

#4

On Wed 30 Apr 2014 05:16:02 PM CDT, icmp request wrote:

It’s not much about deciding between Fedora and OpenSUSE because of
their features or usability. It’s about both being sponsored by the 2
Linux companies that have the most part of the Enterprise Market and
having read some concerning posts about Novell’s future. Maybe your post
suggesting to ask on SUSE’s Forums just show how independent openSUSE is
from Novell (and it’s a good thing), or maybe it’s something to consider
doing.

In either way, thanks for the answers.

Hi
Just to clarify Novell and SUSE are separate entities, but are part of
The Attachmate Group.

–
Cheers Malcolm °¿° SUSE Knowledge Partner (Linux Counter #276890)
openSUSE 13.1 (Bottle) (x86_64) GNOME 3.10.1 Kernel 3.11.10-7-desktop
If you find this post helpful and are logged into the web interface,
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#5

Does it mean if one day SUSE Project closes, it will have no significant impact on the future of openSUSE?

I think that’s the main point of the topic, how much impact any changes on SUSE could have on openSUSE.

#6

On 2014-04-30 14:07, flymail wrote:
> On 2014-04-30, icmp request <> wrote:

>> - What is the relation between SUSE and openSUSE compared to Fedora and
>> Red Hat? What are the main differences?
>
> For someone to ask this question, that person would have to have had experience using not only Fedora and RHEL but also
> openSUSE AND SLED/SLES. Consequently, you might have more luck posting this question to the Enterprise forums (i.e.
> Red-Hat and SUSE Enterprise) rather than the community forum here.

Rather «for someone to answer this question». Anybody can ask. :wink:

>> - Last but not least, what would happen to openSUSE if Novell one day
>> would just close its doors? Is it’s user and developer base large enough
>> to continue the project independently of sponsorship?
>
> Interviews with SUSE staff have always indicated that SUSE needs openSUSE more than the other way round, but perhaps
> they’re just being nice :). With the SUSE/openSUSE project having lasted nearly two decades, if you’re worried about
> it’s longevity, then no distro will satisfy you.

Both depend on each other. At a minimum, SUSE needs openSUSE as a
testing ground. You can not dump on the enterprise servers things fresh
and raw from development. You need lot of testing.

And, openSUSE needs the servers used to store the build farm, download
servers, diverse communication channels, and the paid staffers that keep
all that running, and those that do also software development,
bug-catching, packaging… There is a lot done by volunteers, but we
need staffers and hardware.

> 1. A decision based on market share of their Enterprise equivalents is probably one of the most arbitrary one you could
> make.

I would simply choose the one that’s easier to maintain/admin for me.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.

(from 13.1 x86_64 “Bottle” (Minas Tirith))

#7

On 2014-04-30 19:16, icmp request wrote:
>
> It’s not much about deciding between Fedora and OpenSUSE because of
> their features or usability. It’s about both being sponsored by the 2
> Linux companies that have the most part of the Enterprise Market and
> having read some concerning posts about Novell’s future.

You could post at least links to those so that we can say something.

It could be just people that dislike Novell, and talk bad about it. I
know some of the things they often say, but I’m not going to speculate
on which you have heard. :slight_smile:

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.

(from 13.1 x86_64 “Bottle” (Minas Tirith))

#8

Thanks! :slight_smile:

Actually, I didn’t know if it was prudent or not to post the links. But as being asked for them, here they are:

http://www.cnet.com/news/novell-slapped-for-impersonating-red-hat/

http://readwrite.com/2013/01/25/does-suse-linux-have-a-future#awesm=~oCWZ8L89Ho8gTu

http://www.businesscloudnews.com/2014/01/30/altibase-drops-suse-for-red-hat/

http://www.internetnews.com/ent-news/red-hat-doesnt-see-suse-linux-as-a-major-competitive-threat.html

http://thelinuxworks.blogspot.com.br/2013/05/linux-standards-and-enterprise-why-red.html

http://techrights.org/2013/10/03/ballnux-demoted/

#9

openSUSE is a foundation on whose board SUSE has seats; SUSE donates a percentage of its annual profits to openSUSE. I cannot comment on the precise relationship between RedHat and Fedora.

In the last financial year, SUSE increased sales globally; it had a 23% increase in the US; it is the largest Enterprise Vendor in China - ahead of Red Flag. (That meant its financial support for openSUSE went up.)

Nothing because Novell has not had anything to do with openSUSE since 2011. Who knows? But, given SUSE’s position in the global market and its expressed view that it wants to develop openSUSE to complement SUSE, this does not seem to be a question that openSUSE is going to have to answer in the foreseeable future.

#10

On 2014-04-30, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
> On 2014-04-30 14:07, flymail wrote:
>> On 2014-04-30, icmp request <> wrote:
>
>>> - What is the relation between SUSE and openSUSE compared to Fedora and
>>> Red Hat? What are the main differences?
>>
>> For someone to ask this question, that person would have to have had experience using not only Fedora and RHEL but also
>> openSUSE AND SLED/SLES. Consequently, you might have more luck posting this question to the Enterprise forums (i.e.
>> Red-Hat and SUSE Enterprise) rather than the community forum here.
>
> Rather «for someone to answer this question». Anybody can ask. :wink:

Meh! Of course I meant answer' rather than ask’!

#11

What type of computers do you use and for what purpose?

#12

I use Linux for more than 5 years on my Desktop and Laptop as my main O.S. But they’ve almost always been Debian-based, which are not much used commercially. I’ve been wanting to try an RPM based Enterprise distribution if later on my future jobs I have the opportunity to deal with Linux on Desktops/Servers. And also to “try a new flavor”. Probably they will be Red Hat or SUSE. Seems much less probable l would find an Oracle or Debian.

Edit: I also would like a Qt environment. In this way, I could deal more easily with both Gtk/Qt and .deb/.rpm should the opportunities appear.

#13

On Wed, 30 Apr 2014 06:06:01 +0000, icmp request wrote:

> - What is the relation between SUSE and openSUSE compared to Fedora and
> Red Hat? What are the main differences?

The relationships are roughly equivalent. Fedora is the upstream project
for RHEL; openSUSE is the upstream project for SLE.

> - Is there any data that points to the contrary, that SUSE is actually
> stable or growing and not losing market to Red Hat? (Globally speaking
> of course and not only considering Europe and/or US)

Probably. Not a huge thing for openSUSE, as it’s the upstream project
(and not the downstream project).

> - Last but not least, what would happen to openSUSE if Novell one day
> would just close its doors? Is it’s user and developer base large enough
> to continue the project independently of sponsorship?

Not a lot, SUSE is not a subsidiary of Novell any more, and it hasn’t
been for 3 years. Novell was acquired by The Attachmate Group in May of
2011, and SUSE was moved to be a peer business to Novell under the TAG
umbrella.

SUSE is the openSUSE sponsor, but as I said above, SUSE is a downstream
project, and is shifting more and more towards being community-run as
opposed to being run by the sponsor. Given that openSUSE and its
predecessors (SUSE Linux, for example) has survived being acquired by
Novell and then shifted under TAG, there’s not a lot to worry about, IMHO.

And I’m speaking as someone who was laid off from Novell when TAG
completed its acquisition of Novell and SUSE.

Jim

Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

#14

I would like to give my special thanks for Jim and everyone who took their time to answer this thread.

I’m now installing openSUSE on my Laptop and hopefully I will like it and install on my Desktop too. After reading some external reviews, I had never doubted that openSUSE was more fit for me than Fedora, but I was worried about its future after some articles I’ve read about SUSE/Novell which I linked some posts ago. Fortunately openSUSE really seems to be a fairly solid, independent project and worthy of my attention.

Best Regards.

#15

After trying openSUSE, I may say that the Distribution is pretty stable and fits very much my needs, and the community is very active on the Forums…

On the other hand, I see some lack of support/interest on other places like Bugzilla and openFATE, with a bug report and suggestion without reply for almost a month now.

Is there any way to participate more actively on the project and try to help on these areas, that seem pretty much abandoned, as opposed to the Forums?

#16

Hi
Lots of ways :wink: Mailing List’s, IRC, packaging on OBS etc…
http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate

#17

On 2014-06-04 20:36, icmp request wrote:
> On the other hand, I see some lack of support/interest on other places
> like Bugzilla and openFATE, with a bug report and suggestion without
> reply for almost a month now.

It is true. :frowning:

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 13.1 x86_64 “Bottle” at Telcontar)