openSUSE 11.3 install - some comments - a wish list

While installing v11.3 fresh I noticed some areas that needed improvement… call this my wish list.

  1. Not all services are accessible, for example the new tracker service apparently does NOT have a Yast2 screen so that it can be turned on or off. And typing in “man tracker” results in “no manual entry for tracker”

Please allow the user to find the documentation, and allow them to select whether or not the service is running. I had to find out about what tracker was… after rsync showed me that some task was very busy.

I would like to see all services documented and accounted for.

  1. Initially gcc was not even installed. Surprise! does this mean that the average openSuse installer is an ex-windows person? I would have thought that the compiler would have been installed by default, what is more elementary in linux than the abililty to create your own programs? or have we grown beyond this now?

  2. I initially chose to build openSuse 11.3 at run level 3 (which you can choose during the initial install) however I did check autologin ON, and got into trouble when I accidentally picked the Gnome desktop. Now whenever I hit startx from run level 3… it always goes to the Gnome desktop… no choices allowed, even after I fixed the autologin feature under the securities section of Yast2.

The only way that I have been able to force the login window to select the right desktop manager is to issue the “telinit 5” command, not “startx” from the CLI window, while in run level 3.

I would like to see some more documentation of how openSuse sets up the xconfig files and just how a certain desktop manager gets frozen into the startx command, so that this can be easily changed.

I would also like to see a button in the panel so that a user can drop back to run level 3 if they so choose. (perhaps another fantasy of mine?)

  1. While openSUSE lists the repositories on a web page and a person can cut-paste into the Yast2 software repositories input, sorry to say, the new repositories did not really take, even though they appeared to take and everything looked okay.

This is an area where I think the web page can use some improvement, see Package repositories - openSUSE

And what is more important than choosing your software and successfully installing it?

  1. Finally I noticed something wierd on the KDE4 desktop display, when picking the folder view, it correctly got the /home/user/Desktop/(whatever folders are in this area) okay, but when restarting the gui again, it had dropped down to the /home/user/(whatever folders are here) area. It hints that the default area is “/home/usr” for default, but does NOT correctly display your true location in the gui window.

I would strongly urge that no substitutions are made for the current user by “assuming” that we all know where we are when we start up the desktop, so we don’t have to display it. This obviously has already led to the problem noticed and has to be fixed.

In summary:

more documentation is needed for new features, control of the new features is needed, and let’s not take shortcuts.

Nothing is complete until the documentation is complete.

Just my $0.02 worth, but I’ve had to spend over 20 hours time working on this install to get things working after a failed upgrade from 11.0 forced me to do a complete fresh 11.3 install.

I suggest you make your wishes known here
https://features.opensuse.org/

  1. Finally I noticed something wierd on the KDE4 desktop display, when picking the folder view, it correctly got the /home/user/Desktop/(whatever folders are in this area) okay, but when restarting the gui again, it had dropped down to the /home/user/(whatever folders are here) area. It hints that the default area is “/home/usr” for default, but does NOT correctly display your true location in the gui window.
    This does not happen to me.

IMHO his gets easier with familiarity.

I rarely spend more than 2 hours on an install , including the Linux OS and including all my 3rd party applications (such as virtual box (minus the time to setup windoze), Virtual-dub/deshaker under wine, and a signficant number of multimedia applications, and including my network printer, network scanner, webcam, etc … ). I can install Linux in the time it takes my wife to install her network printer driver (only) under MS-Windows.

A bit of familiarity goes a long ways with openSUSE, but the changes between openSUSE versions are such that the longer one goes between releases, the more that is changed, and the more time it takes to setup (and the less likely one is to remember various methods).

While I still take paper notes when i install, it is no where near like the quantity of notes I used to take, where the notes were a superb reference a couple of years later when I went to install again. I also found keeping configuration files from the old install were very helpful when I struggled with a new front end to some configuration files in the new install. With 11.2 and 11.3, I find I need to take less and less notes, possibly also due to the significant number of test re-installs I do on my test/sandbox PC during the milestone development phase.

Its been like this for many openSUSE releases. … in fact if I recall it was also like this in 11.0.

What I ALWAYS do is select the Base Development pattern during a DVD install. If I try a CD install, then one of the first things I do within the 1st 15 minutes of the CD install is select the base development pattern. That pulls in gcc. Of course my having a high speed internet connection at home makes a big difference in that this is only a few minutes to install the entire pattern, providing gcc , make and other important development apps.

I’m pretty confident this is configuratble under YaST, … possibly under System > /etc/Sysconfig Editor

I know where you are coming from, but I can see the hundreds of new users who click on this button out of curiousity and are then horrified to find themselves in run level 3 :slight_smile: … Opening a terminal and typing “init 3” with root permissions is one way to do this. If not using a liveCD, I prefer to reboot to run level 3 direct, as there is always a risk that a process in run level 5 never unloaded properly (when entering run level 3 from run level 5). I have seen this happen a number of times.

Can you explain how to reproduce this, because I can not reproduce this. Adding repos never has been easier for me, so IMHO you could be using a non-nominal method ?

Thanks for your suggestions, and as caf4926 noted, the openfate page is a good place to provide suggestions for features.

[QUOTE=randallrathbun;2204026]2. Initially gcc was not even installed. Surprise! does this mean that the average openSuse installer is an ex-windows person? I would have thought that the compiler would have been installed by default, what is more elementary in linux than the abililty to create your own programs? or have we grown beyond this now?./QUOTE]

As oldcpu says, it’s been that for a while now, but nothing is stopping you from installing it afterwards. And yes, it’s true that Linux has got to the point where it’s recommended that people get their software from repos instead of doing the ./configure, make, and so forth drill. There are so many people who come to these forums asking why they can’t do a ./configure and half the time, the software they wanted was in a repo already.

Even I have run newly installed openSUSE systems for a while before running into the need for gcc, at which point an install of the Development pattern gets me going in 5 minutes.

On 2010-08-10 08:06, oldcpu wrote:
> randallrathbun;2204026 Wrote:

>> I would also like to see a button in the panel so that a user can drop
>> back to run level 3 if they so choose. (perhaps another fantasy of
>> mine?)

> I know where you are coming from, but I can see the hundreds of new
> users who click on this button out of curiousity and are then horrified
> to find themselves in run level 3 :slight_smile:

ROTFL! YES! Yes, lets add that button! >>>:-)

> Opening a terminal and typing
> “init 3” with root permissions is one way to do this. If not using a
> liveCD, I prefer to reboot to run level 3 direct, as there is always a
> risk that a process in run level 5 never unloaded properly (when
> entering run level 3 from run level 5). I have seen this happen a
> number of times.

Puagh, reboot is so windowze… :stuck_out_tongue:

I always do init 3, never had a problem. You know, if you do, → bugzilla >:-P


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.2 x86_64 “Emerald” GM (Elessar))

I’ve solved the run level to my satisfaction, while staying autologin user. However tweaking a parameter setting manually seems to get broken on the next release :wink:

Hello All,

A little off topic perhaps … but it seems to me the installer has been “dumbed down” significantly, and ironically, become harder to use if you actually know what you want. I don’t remember when the change occurred … maybe in the 10.X series … but I distictly remember a much richer set of install options, including some really nice recovery feature.

It makes me wonder … is Novell/SuSE delusionally competing with M$ again … ??? … “Remember the Alamo, remember Unixware” … :stuck_out_tongue:

If you think SUSE is being dumbed down, it’s more likely that Ubuntu is showing the way here. M$ install is hardly an apt comparison since 1. you normally don’t do it, the mfr does and 2. you’ve forgotten about the 25 dialogs to click through and the 5 reboots to install XP.

Sorry, I can’t agree with your facile comparison. All the poweruser options are there if you want to step off the easy path, you just haven’t looked hard enough at the various decision points. Letting first time installers have an easy path can only be good for adoption. Nnobody has been sidelined. And you can still change it afterwards. I am a poweruser and I sometimes do a basic install with DHCP and then later configure it for ifup, then add repos and packages.

PS: You also need to get up to date with the times, it’s SUSE and openSUSE now. If you were even more out of date you would have put periods inside SuSE.

it’s more likely that Ubuntu is showing the way here. M$ install is hardly an apt comparison since 1. you normally don’t do it, the mfr does

I agree; Ubuntu is a much better comparison or point of reference for this discussion.

As for the silly stuff …

I intentionally wrote “SuSE”, not “OpenSUSE” or “SUSE”, as an expression of skeptism that “OpenSUSE”, “SUSE” or “<ANY OTHER MARKETING DRIVEN NAME>”, actually means anything other than “Novell”. The expression “Novell/SuSE” acknowledges the reality that OpenSUSE is a product origianlly created by former employees of SuSE; it is intended to connote the intrinsic difficulties encountered while trying to make a new corporate entity from two very different companies. As for the extra periods … as in “S.u.S.E.” … I’m just too lazy for that … :smiley:

I agree that the minor point is silly and anyway I’m not interested in that debate about the name, I don’t have the interest or time, you should probably post to Chit-Chat if you want to rattle somebody.