openSUSE 11.1 to 11.3 > Upgrade or Clean Install?

I thought I could rely on the KDE update applet but it’s not the case.
I thought I could rely on YaST2 online update but it’s not the case.

Now I’m downloading the new 11.3 DVD and the question arises:

Can I rely on update function of the DVD installer, or I need to make a clean one?

I recommend a clean install. There is a lot of change between 11.1 and 11.3

  1. The update applet only signals (and installs) security and recommended updates for you current level.
  2. YaST Online Update does the same.
  3. the Upgrade feature on th install disks is only realy supported from level 11.2 onwards.

Thus a clean install (keeping your /home) is the best you can do.

Does

means this 11.3 should be named v12.0???

On 2010-11-03 14:41, emileneth wrote:
>
> I thought I could rely on the KDE update applet but it’s not the case.
> I thought I could rely on YaST2 online update but it’s not the case.

Don’t confuse update with upgrade.

> Now I’m downloading the new 11.3 DVD and the question arises:
>
> Can I rely on update function of the DVD installer, or I need to make a
> clean one?

You can do what you like. Seriously. Any road you choose has potholes,
you have to learn how to navigate them.

http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Installation

http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:System_upgrade
http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:System_upgrade_via_DVD
http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:How_to_migrate_to_a_new_openSUSE_version


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.2 x86_64 “Emerald” at Telcontar)

On 2010-11-03 14:41, hcvv wrote:

> 3) the Upgrade feature on th install disks is only realy supported
> from level 11.2 onwards.

The upgrade feature on the install disks has been supported SINCE EVER.

I have been using it since 5.2 more than ten years ago. Supported and
documented in paper.

It is the online feature (zypper dup) which is only supported since
recently, although it has wrked long before that.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.2 x86_64 “Emerald” at Telcontar)

At least in these Forums the general consense for years is that usiing the upgrade feature on the (earlier CD, now) DVD gave to much problems. Numerous threads on this.

Since about half a year positive reports about the zypper dup method ((since 11.2) are coming in here. Everybody to decide for himself.

No but KDE has had lots of changes 4.0-4.2 should have been considered beta. IMO 4.3.5 was the first really stable KDE 4. Also lots of changes are happening in X and the kernel. This makes for interesting times. In any case unless you have a very default installation upgrading is just going to be a huge pain no matter what version you are coming from/to.

I hope this interesting times come to an age of no more clean installs. It takes a lot of time and effort:

Day 1
Download new DVD

Day 2
Burn DVD
List every app, tool or gadget installed.
Backup my documents and downloaded RPMs

Day 3
Installation
Update
Reinstal some of the apps, tools and gadgets

Day 4
Finishing on apps, toos and gadgets
Restore my documents
Setup again my personal preferences, screensaver, desktop layout, etc.
Minor performance tweaks and testing of each mayor app

Day 5
Finnaly after the workstation is online again, we need to make a list on all the work that has not been done, and puzzle ourselves on how to catch up on time working past hours or weekend

You exaggerate the time required. One day is more then enough time. But in any case you could certainly try an upgrade, no one is stopping you but then you run into old scripts or manually installed programs that don’t work. That could easily take up your 5 days and more.

If you are in a production environment you should already know what apps are needed. If the apps are in the repos you can specify what is to be installed at installation. If you miss one big deal, go to Yast install it.

Testing that would be required anyway right. in most cases it is going to be newer apps installed witht e new OS anyway even on upgrade.

Again if this is a production environment a test system should be used and then a template would be used for further installs.

Ever upgrade to Windows 7 from XP…oops not allowed to do that.

If you want long time stable environment then use the commercial Novell packages. OpenSUSE is a fast moving OS with about an 18 month support window.

Some exageration, but not everything, some steps are really slow with our internet connection, and when you have a year with your workstation, there are plenty of details to look upon

Well, that is basicaly correct, but it could be done i bit different.

  1. download the DVD whil doing all sorts of other work (or even let it download at night).

  2. making notes of what is installed, etc. must be an ongoing proces during the whole lifetime of the system. Also listings of e.g. the PRM database can be made on a regular base (I do it every week together with a lot of system configurtion information). Backups must be there already as a normal way of life, allthough planning the upgrade right after a backup i not a bad idea.

  3. one day is good to do this at leisure, including most of day 4.

  4. personal documents, etc. will be there when you have a separate partition for /home, which is advocated here as a sensible thing to do for ages. Your backup is only needed for a worst case. This includes personal settings of e.g. KDE. Only the introduction of KDE 4 made a hickup here but even there lot of setups were copied from the KDE 3 setup.

I do not say that it is to be taken lightly, but whith a sensible setup of the system and with your normal system management (that should plan for much worse scenarios then a planned system upgrade) in place, five days seems excesive to me.
In any case, the future looks a bit brighter where you can change the repos and then do a zypper dup. But even then a fresh install after some time (a few years?) eems to be the sensible thing to do to get rid of leftovers.

Good tips on good practices… I’ll try to follow them.

When a mayor upgrade, as this seems to be. I upgrade other software aswell, that means read many documentations change logs, and tests.

I was with 11.1 then I wanted to install the recently released MySQL Workbench, but 11.1 repo had only an alpha (or beta?) version, when downloading the official RPM, didnt worked, I found it was intended to be installed on a newer OS.

The “simple” procedure of installing that wonderful software turned into a mayor upgrade.

Now I’m on day 2 of the listed above, I hope I was exagerating as some say here :); I’m slower than “suse geeks”.

On 2010-11-03 17:06, hcvv wrote:
>
> At least in these Forums the general consense for years is that usiing
> the upgrade feature on the (earlier CD, now) DVD gave to much problems.
> Numerous threads on this.

That’s because I wasn’t here to argue the point >:-)

It may have problems, but it has been officially supported for many
years. You can not say there is no support or that it is only supported
since 11.2.

It is a bit more complex, needs some experience - but you don’t learn if
you don’t try :wink:


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.2 x86_64 “Emerald” at Telcontar)

(running an upgraded machine from 5.2 up to 11.2)

On 2010-11-03 18:36, emileneth wrote:

> Now I’m on day 2 of the listed above, I hope I was exagerating as some
> say here :); I’m slower than “suse geeks”.

I always do (or try to do) a full backup before upgrading (or installing
fresh). If things go too bad I can go back to the previous version.

(Hint: look at the signature below)

And I always install a second partition with the next version, to try it
and see if it works for me. If I finally upgrade, and something is not
working that worked on the test partition, I compare configurations.

Yes, upgrades can take days - but on complex setups it is still less
time than installing fresh all services and configurations. Your five
days estimate is about it. Or more… I still haven’t got round to
polishing mysql on mine after a month. Not in a hurry :wink:

Most of it happens in a day. I can use the machine and do my tasks in
that time - but I always delay things till I need them and can’t delay
more :wink:

Another possible setup is having two parallel installations, sharing the
same data or home partitions. You install the full system, fresh, in one
partition, and use it for a year or more. When the time comes, you
install the next version on the other partition, get it ready, copy
configurations across. If it works, you switch to it as default. If it
doesn’t, report the bugs and wait for the next version while you keep
using the previous one.

I know this mode is used by several sysadmins on production machines. If
money allows, the next system is prepared on the spare machine, and
switch machines instead of partitions.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.2 x86_64 “Emerald” at Telcontar)

(running an upgraded machine from 5.2 up to 11.2)

An extra partition and then switch back and forward at every new level is handy indeed. Do not forget to label the file systems on them, else you might forget which one is which one lol!