OpenSuse 11.0 - Still NO Transparency and NO Multimedia GUI!

I have been using OpenSuse since 10.0 and participate in regular bug fixes that I trust help ensure stability over this time.

I had no need to use any Multimedia Tools since V10.2 but as of 11.0 I needed to use Multimedia Tools and still there is No Basic User Transparency nor is K3B anything else but BETA software in a Release environment.

Let me give you an example from an up-to-date-V11.0 in a KDE Desktop.

My AIM is to Burn a CD from data from my HDD…

  1. I insert a CD/RW into my CD/DVD/RW/RW combo Drive.
  2. After inserting the CD, the device is recognized and by clicking on the New Device Icon at the bottom LHS of the Screen with 2 Actions indicated
  3. Open with Dolphin
  4. Copy CD with K3b
  5. Do Nothing.

I select the first, Dolphin File Manager Opens showing that the CD I inserted has a label and I click on that device and it opens. To My surprise it has files on the CD and I want to erase them.
Edit> Select ALL
File >Delete - NO Go! - Well so Much for Integration!

Next I closed the Dolphin and thought I would try again.

I attempted to eject the CD from the Unit - NO!- NO! and again NO!
Now at this point in time I am a bit more switched on that other users so I re-opened Dolphin and searched of either an Eject or Un-mount Device option which I found as a right click on the device object. Other users would be frustrated to the point of shutting down the PC and try to eject the CD before it was again mounted by a recovered session!!!

This time I chose the second option when I inserted the CD – Copy CD with K3b.
K3b Opens with its full quick options page but with a small Copy/clone CD window in focus.
My aid ins not to copy a CD or Clone it – its just to burn new data to a CD – Thats All – I close the copy window.

I now elect New Data CD Project>Find a Directory with associated files and drag it down to the lower Project Window> Click Burn>ERROR
System

K3b Version: 1.0.4

KDE Version: 3.5.9 “release 49.1”
QT Version: 3.3.8b
Kernel: 2.6.25.18-0.2-default
Devices

LITE-ON DVDRW LH-20A1P KL0N (/dev/sr0, ) [CD-R, CD-RW, CD-ROM, DVD-ROM, DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD-R DL, DVD+R, DVD+RW, DVD+R DL] [DVD-ROM, DVD-R Sequential, DVD-R Dual Layer Sequential, DVD-R Dual Layer Jump, DVD-RAM, DVD-RW Restricted Overwrite, DVD-RW Sequential, DVD+RW, DVD+R, DVD+R Dual Layer, CD-ROM, CD-R, CD-RW] [SAO, TAO, RAW, SAO/R96P, SAO/R96R, RAW/R16, RAW/R96P, RAW/R96R, Restricted Overwrite, Layer Jump]

msinfo command:

/usr/bin/X11/wodim dev=/dev/sr0 -msinfo

Next I try to erase the CD
Tools>Erase CD/RW>accept defaults>Start>ERROR

System

K3b Version: 1.0.4

KDE Version: 3.5.9 “release 49.1”
QT Version: 3.3.8b
Kernel: 2.6.25.18-0.2-default
Devices

LITE-ON DVDRW LH-20A1P KL0N (/dev/sr0, ) [CD-R, CD-RW, CD-ROM, DVD-ROM, DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD-R DL, DVD+R, DVD+RW, DVD+R DL] [DVD-ROM, DVD-R Sequential, DVD-R Dual Layer Sequential, DVD-R Dual Layer Jump, DVD-RAM, DVD-RW Restricted Overwrite, DVD-RW Sequential, DVD+RW, DVD+R, DVD+R Dual Layer, CD-ROM, CD-R, CD-RW] [SAO, TAO, RAW, SAO/R96P, SAO/R96R, RAW/R16, RAW/R96P, RAW/R96R, Restricted Overwrite, Layer Jump]

Used versions

cdrecord: 1.1.7.1

cdrecord command:

/usr/bin/X11/wodim -v gracetime=2 dev=/dev/sr0 speed=4 -tao driveropts=burnfree -eject blank=fast -force

cdrecord

/usr/bin/X11/wodim: Operation not permitted. Warning: Cannot raise RLIMIT_MEMLOCK limits.scsidev: ‘/dev/sr0’

devname: ‘/dev/sr0’
scsibus: -2 target: -2 lun: -2
Error trying to open /dev/sr0 exclusively (Device or resource busy)… retrying in 1 second.
Error trying to open /dev/sr0 exclusively (Device or resource busy)… retrying in 1 second.
Error trying to open /dev/sr0 exclusively (Device or resource busy)… retrying in 1 second.
Error trying to open /dev/sr0 exclusively (Device or resource busy)… retrying in 1 second.
Error trying to open /dev/sr0 exclusively (Device or resource busy)… giving up.
WARNING: /dev/sr0 seems to be mounted!
/usr/bin/X11/wodim: Device or resource busy.
Cannot open SCSI driver!
For possible targets try ‘wodim --devices’ or ‘wodim -scanbus’.
For possible transport specifiers try ‘wodim dev=help’.
For IDE/ATAPI devices configuration, see the file README.ATAPI.setup from
the wodim documentation.
TOC Type: 1 = CD-ROM

At this point in time I again have to search for an Umnount command to eject the CD.
Device>Unmount>FAILURE
Device>Unmount>FAILURE
Device Eject>FAILURE
Device Eject>FAILURE

The CD draw is locked and I cannot eject the CD except by a System Re-start and get in quick with the device eject button before the session is restored.

I have had enough!!!

I hate to make this comparison but when it comes to being able to perform a very simple task I WILL! - ITS NOT THAT HARD!!!
I go to a Windows XP PC, Load the CD, Select the directory and associated files>Copy>Select CD
Disk is full? Erase Y/N>Y
Copy selected files to CD/YN>Y

Simple action now complete.

I remain dumb founded as to why such a simple task involves so many steps in
OpenSuse 11.0 and there is still no transparency between a file Manager
AND K3b falls over – twice.

I have been using OpenSuse for 3 years now and we cannot even get this simple task to work
God Help Us!!!

Because no one else seems to care and no one else has seen these bugs for the past 3 years and no one else has logged a bug report

Get a Life and dump K3B and find something that will work with a GUI

Is that too hard after 3 years of OpenSuse???>:)

You didn’t specify which KDE Desktop Environment you got. If it is KDE 4 then i understand Your pain but the reason for that is that there are two versions of kio_cd or something like that (one for KDE 3 one for KDE4). My reasoning is that the kio_cd from KDE 4 (if that’s what You are running) doesn’t want to give it’s control over CD or DVD :slight_smile: Simple misunderstanding :slight_smile:

By the way k3b is specifically a KDE 3 app, the KDE4 version is still in alpha of alpha state :slight_smile:

My Appologies the above refers to a pure KDE4 Desktop, however its weven worse in a pure KDE3 desktop and a nightmare from hell in a mixed kde3/4 Desktop.

Sorry to be so vague!

I still cannot belive opensuse is let out on a RC when simple tasks in relation to Multimedia just dont/and have never worked with transparency of the GUI Interface.

Yet another example of the Developern NOT soley using the GUI interface they create.

If developers spend more time using pure GUI interface and get them out of the command line we woul;d all do much better.

Thanks for your message - As always happ to chat

To be honest, k3b is just a frontend to cli apps :slight_smile:

I also don’t like to have a mixed environment like KDE3&4 that’s why i changed my DE to Gnome and i try to keep it “Gnome only”.
That k3b and kde4 problem, well KDE 4 developers don’t try to make KDE 4 compatible with KDE 3 do they:)? It was meant as a complete revolution (came out simple stinky poop for now) but let’s wait and see what will be in 11.1 and KDE 4.3.

You worry too much :slight_smile:
I just reinstall system againrotfl!
I change my tactics every week or so :slight_smile:
I found all apps i need and i’m happy now:)

Reinstalling is rarely needed with Linux

/Geoff

Tell me more that reinstalling is not needed. First rpm packaging is so unfortunate that it’s not removing unnecessary pacakges (old depdendencies), apt is great in that.
Second i reinstalled and have freakin problems from the beginning, can’t see files in my home folder! WTF?? Such things shouldn’t occur normally.

I really don’t think I worry too much -
Perhaps I have the wrong expectation that over the last 3 years we could enjoy a GUI that would perform even basic functions - I don’t think that is too much to ask for. To permit such a long history of pathetic functionality when it comes to Multimedia is criminal or total indifference.

OpenSuse ability to perform an update without mixing KDE3/KDE4 is a huge topic in itself that would draw a huge amount of very pointed emotions.

O.K Its a front End. - I realize that! But to a pure user its their total world and they just want it to work - nothing more and nothing less.

The Whole of the Linux development has been to create a GUI for ALL user functions and they are all front Ends to innate flexibility of the Operating System.

Suse.De have 2 vital questions they need to develop a policy right now.

  1. Either the default KDE desktop installs either Konqueror with its restore KDE3 functionality that has been drooped - I.E the right click actions meant to zip/unzip files etc…

2, Install as default Dolphin as the file manager and interface it with other devices - namely CD/DVD/RAM Stick etc.
AND add in the functions of Konquer’s KDE3 File Management capabilities of the KDE3 version.

I wound strongly advocate for the second option as Konqueror has now no less that 186 user options that can be changed as it stands in KDE4 and has had the default actions removed as above.

I like most users just want it to work?

Perhaps if more people at suse.de actually used the GUI and never went to the command prompt we might actually see a better product at release time.

Well i can’t help You anymore :slight_smile: I moved to “Gnome only” desktop, i never realized there are other music players that count besides amarok;) Try Gnome:) You’ll like it.

Thanks for your message Bender and I too would move to gnome if there desktop had the ability to have multiple desktops and multiples of wallpapers and multiple panels and I love the transparency of the panels - But I am now talking from ignorance since I have not used Gnome since 10.1

I have many PC’s - and I will load gnome on a test PC when I order 11.1 - Perhaps the things I love may have come across I do hope so. Yes I am quite sure gnome and its associated applications are much more stable - I know this because I know who contributes to the desktop.

Thank you for a very timely reminder - Its has been long overdue for me to take another serious look rotfl!

You won’t be disappointed, it hasn’t got so many irritating bugs like KDE 4. I prefer to have it stable than look good but hey you can make Gnome look great too, it just takes a bit more tinkering with it.

Dear My Global Moderator,

For an informed person to make such a statement that 're-installing is seldom required in Linux…'must be the most uninformed comment I have ever heard.

If your name of Global Moderator is true to your job description, I suggest that you re-evaluate your current understanding of actual product release or you seriously consider early retirement.

The statement is TRUE only in the context of re-installing a misbehaving application in NOT required in Linux.

IF we totally remove user options as far as retaining another O/S? ----- THEN

To even suggest that the update path of an update installation from 10.3 - 11.0 is anything more than a resultant mix of KDE3/KDE4 Applications and library files is nonsense.

To suggest that opensuse has the seamless ability to perform and update installation within 10.0-10.3 is further nonsense.

Even those of us who have 2 partitions, one being a /home partition where we can elect a new installation BUT keep the current partitioning and only format the Root and SWAP partitions and then proceed, certainly does help most people out - however the danger still exists where some unexpected config file exists in the /home directory and impacts the new install.

There is nothing transparent with the update installation from 10.3-11.0 in KDE.

Every day users are just learning the merits of having a /home partition left alone from a new install format is something they should never need to understand. - These people just put the new install CD in and click update and trust it will happen.

I am sure you are aware of the huge user backlash against the update process since 10.0 in a KDE Desktop and we now publish a procedure along the lines of
“How are you going to install your OpenSuse”

Good grief - You now want pure users to read lengthy documentation before they start their install…

As a pure user they only should need to know how to perform 2 types of Install after they select their DVD/Desktop and Architecture.

  1. New Install
  2. Update their installation

If the installation script cannot be refined to the point where these are the only 2 options a user ever needs to contend with then we all have failed in our understanding of the total market place!

Sorry for the passionate reply - In this subject of Transparent Update and New Installation it has morphed and become such a huge issue and we lose users every time that their New or more importantly, Update Installation fails or produces some type of mixed versions and associated Library files.

Cheer up meatbag :wink:

No one tells You to use openSUSE, don’t like it? You can choose some other distro, Linux is a fast moving train changing all the time evolving, that’s why it’s hard to ensure everyone can upgrade with no problems as many people have packages from Packman etc. (if everyone had packages from OSS or non-OSS only then even 9.0 could upgrade:)).
The state of KDE 4 (mixed with KDE 3) is such because not everything has been ported from KDE3, so instead telling users “You won’t use K3b because it’s KDE3” they include it because they have no choice. With 11.2 You’ll probably be able to use “KDE 4 only” desktop with no KDE 3 apps (let’s hope so). While it is true that You don’t need to reinstall often (if You want to play to fix it) but i personally prefer to make a clean install (and a backup of course). So cheer up because with that attitude no one ever will want to help You :wink:

k3b works flawlessly for me (and for hundreds other peoples around here) on OpenSuse 11.0; whether i use kde3.5.9 or kde4.2-beta2. The desktop integration between dolphin/konqueror and k3b also works perfectly out-of-the-box.

I suspect a side effect of your configuration.

Btw, try to install packman’s version of all your multimedia apps (k3b and k3b-codecs for example).

I personnaly install my apps from source

Not true too much has changed to make an upgrade from 9 to 11.1 possible.
Regardless of the repos

/Geoff

My work Linux desktop has never been re-installed. It’s the same install I used for 10.0 and upgraded to 10.1, .2, .3, 11.0 and now 11.1.

And I suggest you be quiet. He’s done more for SuSE than you ever will.

Actually it’s quite possible. You can use the smart package manager for 10.0, .1 and 10.2 to upgrade to 10.3 which can then be upgraded via zypper.

Amazingly enough, all this information is available on the openSUSE website or via 3rd party links such as those on PlanetSuSE or opensuse-community.org - just a mouse click away.

Apart from the fact that it ‘just worked’. Just did a 10.3-11.0-to-11.1 jump for a worker at the office and he’s happily using 11.1 now.

Ignorance is a poor excuse. Too many people today use computers that absolutely no concept of what their machines are doing - guess which machines are also most often found in bot networks smashing the gates of my firewall? Indeed.

It’s just an operating system. If things like this get you riled up, I suggest you seek psychological help - the sooner the better.

On 01/08/2009 Chrysantine wrote:
> It’s just an operating system. If things like this get you riled up,
> I suggest you seek psychological help - the sooner the better.

Welcome back, Chrysantine <G>

Uwe

Of Course I love opensuse - I would not submit bug reports or even entertain the use of my time here in a forum if I did not.

The O/S and associated applications are so far ahead of other products on the market its just to much to cover here why.

As an Analyst in my work I also see the beauty of the pure O/S and its kernel. Just on the subject of memory management and total size of addressable memory make Linux light years ahead technically.

The concept of open software is one of inclusion rather than exclusion without concern for profit.

The direction of development is shaped by need rather than shareholders greed.

This forum is a soapbox, which contains strong opinions of anything and as such I am not here to upset or insult anyone. I deal in fact and if my words invoke anger - perhaps we all need to take a deep breath.

What does always provoke my passionate exchange of words is that my hope that opensuse will continue to be a better choice than anything else on the planet.

Technically we do that right now - but when a simple task fails OR is very very complex I just jump out of my technical box and think along the lines of a user. - A user just wants it to work and they do not care about anything else.

This is now what we all need to come to terms with - We are all mostly Technical People and often we get too excited and wrapped up in our own technical understanding of opensuse.

Lets all jump out of that technical box for a few days, because if we dont do that we can never provide the market place with a far better alternative.

The example I lead with about a simple task of burning a CD failed badly and still in our user or marketplace mindset it just doesnot work.

For me I am always trying to think like our total market place now and in its increasing number and we need to build an Operating System ( and associated applications ) that make it a massively strong contender against everything else.

If I look at my postings under a Technical preface - I would not have said anything - I would have just filled in the correct number of bugs to correct this issue.

This forum is about passion - a passion for our opensuse that is about pure users thinking about moving from a poor old other GUI into the next world.

Guys - my intension was not and will never be personal - in this forum it will only be passion for the processes we do well and the ones we do not - and ALL from a non-technical viewpoint.

If anyone has taken personal offense - my apologies

To those who’s mind has been challenged on a pure user level of ‘usability’ and ‘real world alternative’ - I do thank all for their equal passion, but let this forum remain one of a Strong Opinion - and in my case a Strong Opinion of how we dont always escape our technical minds.

If we cannot escape our technical minds then what is the real purpose of all the worlds contributions to the project worth - especially if we cannot provide a far better user interface.:wink:

It’s a simple way of life, we make mistakes when moving forward, two steps forward and one back but still forward. I agree that such thing like that is inacceptable but hey, we’re here to help:) You can do what most trolls do, complain, but if you wan’t to move forward you ask and hope for a fix :slight_smile:

What i would wan’t to see is a codecs installer that automatically signs us for a Packman repo and installs all the necessary codecs. That would be great :slight_smile:

Hi Bender,

The only vehicle open to the community is to create a Trouble report. - Bug

The only vehicle open to the community we have to make an existing application better is to create an Enhancement.

There is no vehicle open to the community, to create functional change.

The community has no possible way of creating a Request for Function Change as we cannot do that!

The community it as the mercy of the technical people at Suse.de to move in a new or different way or to suggest anything new.

If you would like to see the community suggest anything NEW then suse.de has to create such a vehicle for Technical Change or new direction.

The ONLY option open to all, is to openly express our need for a new direction and in does so I am not complaining, but merely wishing to invoke enough passion at suse.de to create change.

IF we automate the process of Requests For Functional Change and open it up to the world then this would be a wonder.

Currently I cannot open a BUG and use the Enhancement category and request a new direction - thats an ‘invalid’ AND there is NO possible other way open to the wider wold of users to create RFC’s;)

P.S Why are up so early - I am at GMT +10 and I think you are about GMT+3 in Germany - Doing the late shift??? :slight_smile: