Openbox (NOT-kde) no sound for games after zypper dup 12.2>12.3

English Applications
#1

I recently followed the on-line upgrade path outlined in:

http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:System_upgrade

By and large I’m quite happy with the results. But I’ve noticed something
about sound output from games such as “Amoebax, KBreakOut, & FreeDink”
Namely, there isn’t any. Though the system bell still works as does sound
output from “music on console” and mplayer. Also streaming audio works from
sites like:

http://upchucky.org/JukeCity/1969/OldJukes/player.htm?

And streaming audio/video from sites like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCheAcpFkL8

But when I play a game… No sound!

Suggestions anyone?

Don’t know if it matters but:
I symlinked default.target to runlevel3.target, so I login on a virtual
console, and use startx when I’m ready for the GUI…

my ~/.xinitrc:


qterminal --drop &
lxpanel &
xrandr -s 3
synclient TouchpadOff=2
/usr/bin/openbox-session

–
JtWdyP

#2

There are different types of “sounds”

From your description I suspect your game uses MIDI (a type of synthesized sound).
Recommend you download a sound clip and try to play to verify.
If the sound <does> play, then my guess is that the problem is more likely an app setting.

TSU

#3

It would appear that on Mar 22, tsu2 did say:

> There are different types of “sounds”
>
> From your description I suspect your game uses MIDI (a type of
> synthesized sound).
> Recommend you download a sound clip and try to play to verify.
> If the sound <does> play, then my guess is that the problem is more
> likely an app setting.

I suppose that’s possible, But these same games played sounds just fine
when my system was still version 12.2…

I suppose the upgraded version might have a different setting. Though as I
recall I had wanted Amoebax bad enough that I temporarily enabled a 12.3 repo
to get it.

Still, I don’t see what it could hurt to test a sound clip… Any suggestions
on where to get the kind your talking about?

Thanks

–
JtWdyP

#4

I don’t think this is related to MIDI, open a terminal and start any of the games from there and see what it outputs.

#5

It would appear that on Mar 23, F Sauce did say:

> I don’t think this is related to MIDI, open a terminal and start any of
> the games from there and see what it outputs.

http://i62.tinypic.com/28jk477.png

–
JtWdyP

#6

Hi.

What does KBreakout output?
You mentioned something about **amoebax **coming from a third party repo, so it might not be that relevant for this test; and it did not reveal much anyhow.

Couldn’t open sound system: No available audio device

I’m guessing that this indicates that the device is reported to be busy, not necessarily ‘not found’; do you use PulseAudio, and does outputting sound from multiple applications/sources simultaneously work?

This command will give some information about audio applications/processes currently running:

lsof /dev/snd/*
#7

Might also be worth checking the SDL libs, check where they originate from. If you have the games repo ( or education + similar ) enabled in addition to the -oss, mixing packages from these repoes may cause trouble. As long as they are provided, and suffice, I would stick to using packages from the official repoes (-oss, non-oss, updates).

BTW, I just tested **amoebax **(never heard of it before) it ran fine and sound was never an issue.

Olav

#8

It would appear that on Mar 24, F Sauce did say:

> What does KBreakout output?

Note: my 2 line bash prompt includes an leading "> "
In the first instance I peeked in settings to make sure there wasn’t a
“sound off” setting in play… (only use a few kde apps since kde4 got me to
look elsewhere… So much of kde is not installed) {didn’t interfere with
sound in 12.2??}

You mentioned something about *amoebax *coming from a third party repo,
so it might not be that relevant for this test; and it did not reveal
much anyhow.

True that! Though about sound, kbreakout is saying even less… :sigh:

Couldn’t open sound system: No available audio device
I’m guessing that this indicates that the device is reported to be busy,
not necessarily ‘not found’; do you use PulseAudio, and does outputting
sound from multiple applications/sources simultaneously work?

Only use pulseaudio to the extent forced to by applicable distro devs…
As to multi-sources… see below.

This command will give some information about audio
applications/processes currently running:

Code:

lsof /dev/snd/*


JtWdyP -> ~
> lsof /dev/snd/*
JtWdyP -> ~
> man lsof
JtWdyP -> ~
>

After some empirical poking around I found lsof more informative from inside
an midnight commander session…

Which in itself reveled:

http://i62.tinypic.com/2r2431v.png


JtWdyP -> ~
> mc

JtWdyP -> /dev/snd/by-path
> lsof /dev/snd/*
COMMAND  PID   USER   FD   TYPE DEVICE SIZE/OFF NODE NAME
mc      3781 jtwdyp  cwd    DIR    0,5       60 6571 /dev/snd/by-path
bash    3783 jtwdyp  cwd    DIR    0,5       60 6571 /dev/snd/by-path
lsof    3863 jtwdyp  cwd    DIR    0,5       60 6571 /dev/snd/by-path
lsof    3864 jtwdyp  cwd    DIR    0,5       60 6571 /dev/snd/by-path
JtWdyP -> /dev/snd/by-path
> amoebax &
[1] 3971
JtWdyP -> /dev/snd/by-path
> Couldn't open sound system: No available audio device

JtWdyP -> /dev/snd/by-path
> lsof /dev/snd/*
COMMAND  PID   USER   FD   TYPE DEVICE SIZE/OFF NODE NAME
mc      3781 jtwdyp  cwd    DIR    0,5       60 6571 /dev/snd/by-path
bash    3783 jtwdyp  cwd    DIR    0,5       60 6571 /dev/snd/by-path
amoebax 3971 jtwdyp  cwd    DIR    0,5       60 6571 /dev/snd/by-path
lsof    3981 jtwdyp  cwd    DIR    0,5       60 6571 /dev/snd/by-path
lsof    3982 jtwdyp  cwd    DIR    0,5       60 6571 /dev/snd/by-path
JtWdyP -> /dev/snd/by-path
> ls
pci-0000:00:14.2
JtWdyP -> /dev/snd/by-path
>

I tested running sound from multiple sources with these results:


JtWdyP -> /dev/snd/by-path
> lsof /dev/snd/*
COMMAND    PID   USER   FD   TYPE DEVICE SIZE/OFF NODE NAME
mc        3781 jtwdyp  cwd    DIR    0,5       60 6571 /dev/snd/by-path
bash      3783 jtwdyp  cwd    DIR    0,5       60 6571 /dev/snd/by-path
amoebax   3971 jtwdyp  cwd    DIR    0,5       60 6571 /dev/snd/by-path
opera:lib 4062 jtwdyp  mem    CHR  116,4          8147 /dev/snd/pcmC0D0p
opera:lib 4062 jtwdyp   13r   CHR 116,33      0t0 5443 /dev/snd/timer
opera:lib 4062 jtwdyp   15u   CHR  116,4      0t0 8147 /dev/snd/pcmC0D0p
mocp      4374 jtwdyp    8u   CHR  116,8      0t0 8153 /dev/snd/controlC0
lsof      4386 jtwdyp  cwd    DIR    0,5       60 6571 /dev/snd/by-path
lsof      4387 jtwdyp  cwd    DIR    0,5       60 6571 /dev/snd/by-path
JtWdyP -> /dev/snd/by-path
>

I note that Music on Console had a stronger signal, But if I selected a tune
with quiet spaces built in AKA something from Gordon Lightfoot, I could hear
both that, and the tune from:

http://upchucky.org/JukeCity/1969/OldJukes/player.htm?

(at the same time)

It would appear that on Mar 24, F Sauce also said:

> Might also be worth checking the SDL libs, check where they originate
> from. If you have the games repo ( or education + similar ) enabled in
> addition to the -oss, mixing packages from these repoes may cause
> trouble. As long as they are provided, and suffice, I would stick to
> using packages from the official repoes (-oss, non-oss, updates).

Not sure how to check the “SDL libs”…

Have games, never enabled during “zypper up” (nor of course “dup”)

> BTW, I just tested *amoebax *(never heard of it before) it ran fine and
> sound was never an issue.

Can’t remember where I first found it. But discovered it was addictive enough
to want in any distro I spend much time using… Didn’t have any sound issues
with it in 12.2, Nor do I on my old ‘nvidia’ HP desktop which just did an:

“12.2 > 12.3 zypper dup”

yesterday… But on this almost as old gateway laptop… :sigh:

–
JtWdyP

#9

SDL http://www.libsdl.org/ is often used by games, though you could use it for instance as the audio-output ‘driver’ for MPlayer also. To check which repo packages come from, go in to YaST Software Manager search for ‘sdl’ and scroll through the sdl packages with the Versions tab open.

I found the picture of ‘alsamixer’ a bit strange, have you modified channel views or similar?
Maybe this shows something interesting:

aplay -l

You could also show us the repository list:

zypper -ls
#10

It would appear that on Mar 24, F Sauce did say:

> SDL http://www.libsdl.org/ is often used by games, though you could use
> it for instance as the audio-output ‘driver’ for MPlayer also. To check
> which repo packages come from, go in to YaST Software Manager search for
> ‘sdl’ and scroll through the sdl packages with the Versions tab open.

I’ll have to check that out then…

> I found the picture of ‘alsamixer’ a bit strange, have you modified
> channel views or similar?

Nope it opens by default on the “playback channels” view… Or is it that your
used to seeing more playback channels? I’m not sure of the technical details.
But I’ve had the impression that for the past few years, most Linux distros
have pretty much embedded pulseaudio dependencies that interfere with some
alsa tools. I quickly realized that I didn’t have the skill or time to keep
things running with all things pulseaudio completely purged. But, if memory
serves… ever since pulseaudio gained such favor with the devs, my laptop’s
list of available channels in the alsamixer have been reduced. Not that
I really used the missing channels. Nor can I say if I was even running
opensuse at the time.

But it’s the reason I dislike pulseaudio almost as much as I dislike software
written by a certain company in Redmond…

> Maybe this shows something interesting:
>
> Code:
> --------------------
> aplay -l
> --------------------


~
UnderTree=-> aplay -l
**** List of PLAYBACK Hardware Devices ****
card 0: SB [HDA ATI SB], device 0: STAC92xx Analog [STAC92xx Analog]
Subdevices: 1/1
Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
card 0: SB [HDA ATI SB], device 6: Si3054 Modem [Si3054 Modem]
Subdevices: 1/1
Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
~
UnderTree=->

You could also show us the repository list:

Code:

zypper -ls


~
UnderTree=-> zypper -ls
Unknown option 'l'
Missing argument for -ls
~
UnderTree=-> zypper lr |grep "Yes     |"
6 | packman                   | Packman repository (openSUSE_12.3) | Yes     | Yes
10 | repo-non-oss              | openSUSE-12.3-Non-Oss              | Yes     | Yes
11 | repo-oss                  | openSUSE-12.3-Oss                  | Yes     | Yes
13 | repo-update               | openSUSE-12.3-Update               | Yes     | Yes
14 | repo-update-non-oss       | openSUSE-12.3-Update-Non-Oss       | Yes     | Yes
~
UnderTree=-> zypper lr |grep "No      |"
1 | X11:QtDesktop             | X11:QtDesktop                      | No      | No
2 | X11_Utilities             | X11 Utilities (openSUSE_12.3)      | No      | No
3 | games                     | games                              | No      | No
4 | libdvdcss                 | DVD Repository                     | No      | No
5 | openSUSE:Tools            | openSUSE:Tools                     | No      | No
7 | repo-debug                | openSUSE-12.3-Debug                | No      | No
8 | repo-debug-update         | openSUSE-12.3-Update-Debug         | No      | No
9 | repo-debug-update-non-oss | openSUSE-12.3-Update-Debug-Non-Oss | No      | No
12 | repo-source               | openSUSE-12.3-Source               | No      | No
15 | server:mail               | server:mail                        | No      | No
16 | server:proxy              | server:proxy                       | No      | No
~
UnderTree=->

BTW Don’t know what or why, But every now and then while doing something
inside a “konsole” I’ve been noticing a notification pop-up that claims the
“multi-media” sound something or other “does not work” switching to “default”
It goes away before I can read it properly. The last time was while I was doing
something with my alpine mail/usenet client. I think it was while saving about
a hundred messages from opensuse’s NTTP forum access server to a local folder.
But I’m not sure… It might even have been when I first opened the
reply/followup composer session for this message. But I’m sure that I wasn’t
even using sound at the time, unless maybe it was the system bell??

Not a all sure those notifications are relevant though. Because I used to see
them once in a while before the zypper dup. Back when the games still had sound.

–
JtWdyP

#11

It would appear that on Mar 24, F Sauce did say:

> SDL http://www.libsdl.org/ is often used by games, though you could use
> it for instance as the audio-output ‘driver’ for MPlayer also. To check
> which repo packages come from, go in to YaST Software Manager search for
> ‘sdl’ and scroll through the sdl packages with the Versions tab open.

All save one installed SDL have openSUZE as vendor, of which:

libSDL-1_2-0 & libSDL-devel are from openSUZE-12.3-Update

The exception libSDL_gfx15 is from obs://build.opensuse.org.games

The rest are from OSS…

http://i60.tinypic.com/28mobvc.png

Not sure what it means, but that’s what I found…

–
JtWdyP

#12

I’m not too familiar with PulseAudio but that may be the reason for the few channels available from the mixer interface; I would otherwise expect speakers/front, headphones, various surround ch etc also.
I don’t use PA at all on five computers I have set-up around here.

#13

A suggestion about troubleshooting your situation…

I suggested MIDI earlier as a guess based on process of elimination based on what was described as working in the original post.
The Simple DirectMedia Library is also a reasonable suggestion of a “type” of sounds that might be a problem.

But, instead of all this guessing,

  1. You should do a Google search for sample sounds for these types of music and simply play them on your machine. If you can hear the sound, then your system is configured with a “device” to recognize and play them. This is an easy test that should quickly narrow down possibilities at the system level.

  2. You need to research the type of sound which is implemented in these games. If the app documentation doesn’t provide the info, contact the authors or the owners of the app. Or, look in the app files themselves. The sounds don’t just magically appear, they are from files <somewhere>. Play them outside the game to see if you can hear any sound.

Naturally, if you can determine your system can recognize and play the sounds, then you can focus on an app configuration instead of spending more time on libraries and devices.

But, if you can’t hear any sound, then you’ll hopefully better identify exactly <what> sound file the games use and get closer to a working solution.

HTH,
TSU

#14

I don’t know specifically (technically) what’s behind this, but I see it also; I expect you use KDE apps (Konsole?) and hence phonon may be running, at least the similar device warning on my system is related to it; on the laptop, which I have struggled a bit with concerning sound, I will get this message when I start another KDE session; I regularly run dolphin as root.

The SDL libs seem quite fine; the one from the games repo is just a dependency package (one or another game you installed), no version conflict there.

If PulseAudio is used on your system you should try use ‘pavucontrol’.

#15

The sound files in Ameobax is in .ogg and .wav, no MIDI set-up is required.

#16

It would appear that on Mar 26, F Sauce did say:

>= I don’t know specifically (technically) what’s behind this, but I see it
>= also; I expect you use KDE apps (Konsole?) and hence phonon may be
>= running, at least the similar device warning on my system is related to
>= it; on the laptop, which I have struggled a bit with concerning sound, I
>= will get this message when I start another KDE session; I regularly run
>= dolphin as root.

Yeah, there are a few kde applications I’ve hung on to when kde4 made me retch
so hard that I discovered other WM/DE choices. And Konsole is the one I most
care about.

>= The SDL libs seem quite fine; the one from the games repo is just a
>= dependency package (one or another game you installed), no version
>= conflict there.

I was hoping you’d say something like that.

>= If PulseAudio is used on your system you should try use ‘pavucontrol’.

I’ll have to think about that a bit. I’m aware that pavucontrol is indeed
a powerful program that just might work. Though I suspect anything it
solves is related to something pulseaudio is already messing with.
{pulseaudio was automatically installed when I installed opensuse from the
12.2 iso, I certainly never asked for it} And I dislike it.

It would appear that on Mar 25, tsu2 did say:

>+ A suggestion about troubleshooting your situation…
>+
>+ I suggested MIDI earlier as a guess based on process of elimination
>+ based on what was described as working in the original post.
>+ The Simple DirectMedia Library is also a reasonable suggestion of a
>+ “type” of sounds that might be a problem.
>+
>+ But, instead of all this guessing,
>+ 1. You should do a Google search for sample sounds for these types of
>+ music and simply play them on your machine. If you can hear the sound,
>+ then your system is configured with a “device” to recognize and play
>+ them. This is an easy test that should quickly narrow down possibilities
>+ at the system level.
>+
>+ 2. You need to research the type of sound which is implemented in these
>+ games. If the app documentation doesn’t provide the info, contact the
>+ authors or the owners of the app. Or, look in the app files themselves.
>+ The sounds don’t just magically appear, they are from files <somewhere>.
>+ Play them outside the game to see if you can hear any sound.
>+
>+ Naturally, if you can determine your system can recognize and play the
>+ sounds, then you can focus on an app configuration instead of spending
>+ more time on libraries and devices.
>+
>+ But, if you can’t hear any sound, then you’ll hopefully better identify
>+ exactly <what> sound file the games use and get closer to a working
>+ solution.

I thank you for your kind advice tsu2, It is obvious that you have a deeper
understanding of how sound works than I. Thing is, though I only named a few
games when I first explained my sound problem. The problem affect every single
game I got. I listed the ones I did only because I clearly remember sound
working with them shortly before the {12.2>12.3 zypper dup} upgrade. That’s
a lot of game applications to suddenly get misconfigured all at once…

In spite of that, I think your right about it being related to app
configuration. {see below}

It would appear that on Mar 26, F Sauce did say:

>= The sound files in Ameobax is in .ogg and .wav, no MIDI set-up is
>= required.

I KNOW I can play .wav files. I suppose I could google for an ogg sound sample
as tsu2 suggests… But I’m thinking of a more radical solution… I’ve tried
something like this before (with various other distros) only to be sacred off
by what else would be removed due to dependency issues. Lets see if opensuse
is any less totalitarian about it.


~
UnderTree=-> zypper rm -D pulseaudio
Loading repository data...
Reading installed packages...
Resolving package dependencies...

The following packages are going to be REMOVED:
alsa-plugins-pulse pulseaudio pulseaudio-esound-compat pulseaudio-module-bluetooth
pulseaudio-module-jack pulseaudio-module-lirc pulseaudio-module-zeroconf
pulseaudio-utils

8 packages to remove.

Kudos to the opensuse devs for not going there…

Now I’m trying it for real…

YUP! tsu2 was right. And the misconfigured app was “pulseaudio” itself…

I didn’t gain any more output channels in the alsamixer, But the game
sounds are making it to the speakers again… “OH happy! Happy! Joy! Joy!”

–
JtWdyP

#17

Instead of removing the PA packages all at once you could have tried disabling the PA sound server first: YaST > Hardware > Sound > Other (button)
But as the operation is successful and done that has no relevance now of course.

A note on .ogg files: Ogg is an open source container format and included (supported) more or less by default if one set up openSUSE with sound capabilities.

Glad to see you’ve got it working:)

Cheers,
Olav

#18

NB

If you open AlsaMixer and click on F5 to view all channels you may perhaps then get access to one or another output port fader, I still find your mixer a bit strange.
Have a look at the sound cards and devices lists also (F2 and F6), may reveal something useful.

I’m certainly no expert on ALSA and you are probably not motivated for further investigation as it now works, just some suggestions, all though they may be irrelevant, if you wish to continue.

#19

It would appear that on Mar 27, F Sauce did say:

> Instead of removing the PA packages all at once you could have tried
> disabling the PA sound server first: YaST > Hardware > Sound > Other
> (button)

yeah, but ripping pulseaudio out by the roots was much more satisfying :wink:

> But as the operation is successful and done that has no relevance now of
> course.

BTW I did preserve the list of the “uninstalled” just in case I found it
necessary to reinstall.

> A note on .ogg files: Ogg is an open source container format and
> included (supported) more or less by default if one set up openSUSE with
> sound capabilities.

“container”… So inside whatever .ogg came with amoebax would be .wav?

> Glad to see you’ve got it working:)

Me too!

It would appear that on Mar 27, F Sauce did say:

> If you open AlsaMixer and click on F5 to view all channels you may
> perhaps then get access to one or another output port fader, I still
> find your mixer a bit strange.

Yeah, I like to see more output channels {use them or not} but to be
honest, it’s been like that long enough that I can’t really be sure if
the vague memory I have of it having had more channels before I first
encountered pulseaudio wasn’t really on my {now defunct} former desktop
instead… I am sure that the current Nvidia equipped desktop isn’t the
only place I’d seen more output channels. But I can’t be sure if I had
really done so on the laptop.

> Have a look at the sound cards and devices lists also (F2 and F6), may
> reveal something useful.

Looked, didn’t show me anything useful.

> I’m certainly no expert on ALSA and you are probably not motivated for
> further investigation as it now works, just some suggestions, all though
> they may be irrelevant, if you wish to continue.

Well, it’s like this. All I got to “output to” {on the laptop} are the
built-in speakers and the headphone jack… And for that, “Master” & “PCM”
are sufficient.

Especially on a laptop that doesn’t even charge what’s left of it’s
battery anymore. It’s only been a couple years since I spent something
close to $70 USD on a replacement battery, and now this one doesn’t hold
enough of a charge to move the laptop from one room to the next without
shutting down.

I keep hoping that I’ll get a chance to salvage some Windows user’s
former XP laptop right after they buy a new Win7 or {gag} one of those
nauseating Win8, things. But my best hope of that says he intends to use
his as an offline toy… {expletive deleted}!

If I ever do scrape up enough to replace it, I will probably experiment with
how well the three working Linux installations I have on this tired old
thing do when “restored” from tarball and/or clonezilla archive to new
{hopefully improved} hardware. But until/unless I find some extra money,
it’s the best tool I got for staying connected while sitting in the
livingroom. And playing the occasional game when my lady finds one of her
John Wayne westerns on the TV…

–
JtWdyP

#20

I suspect you were missing a shim library. The older games may be using alsa so you need the alsa to pulse library I forget the name but it is oblivious if you do a yast search on pulse.
Also for some things like Skype you may need 32bit libraries for the shims