That’s an opinion. If you check many posts, folks will ask, “log in with Plasma X11 and see if it works”. … “oh thanks, my display works properly”. It’s rare the opposite.
Like on our machines. Wayland is lacking.
It’s not an opinion, @myswtest , as much as it might not be great to hear.
Edge cases where applications work improperly isn’t the fault of Wayland, and specific hardware issues can’t be pinned on Wayland.
There are other instances where an application or a machine won’t work properly with an X session either. The issue lies with the specific app or hardware configuration.
Blaming Wayland any time something doesn’t work is a copout that actually avoids fixing real issues because Wayland has become the scapegoat.
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Wayland is ready and X11 is (quite) unmaintained for a long time. Some small wrinkles, but which software has no wrinkles?
For users of Optimus hardware, as example, Wayland should be prefered. It outperforms X11, which had noticable lags on some hardware when switching between applications and more.
But yeah, there are always some ppl which are not open for changes (which already happened decades ago) and purposely want to stick to the “good, old times” and claim that the new stuff is bad and the old deprecated stuff still flying 
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X11 is (quite) unmaintained
true that X11 is mostly abandoned and Wayland is intensively developed these days
Some small wrinkles
sometimes it’s just wrinkles, other times it’s lack of X11 functionality in Wayland that requires to be implemented in user software (I suppose it’s more important than small wrinkles)
For users of Optimus hardware, as example, Wayland should be prefered. It outperforms X11, which had noticable lags on some hardware
There are individual cases when Wayland outperforms X11, in other ones X11 outperforms Wayland (like this frustration with input latency under Wayland Hard numbers in the Wayland vs X11 input latency discussion - Mort's Ramblings).
So that it’s not the case for general assumptions. Yes, there’s a lot of other reasons, but certainly it’s not this one.
there are always some ppl … claim that the new stuff is bad and the old deprecated stuff still flying
or more precisely: the new stuff is not bad, and at the same time the old one still works (sometimes worse, sometimes better).
There’s only one clear thing, Wayland is the thing to be used for new projects because X11 is mostly abandoned.
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Time for more bug reports on what’s not working and what is under Wayland?
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Yes, more users need to make the effort to submit bug reports when encountering Wayland desktop issues, (especially those with hybrid graphics and multi-monitor setups).
There are Ubunto versions that have to have X11 because the Desktop they run are not Wayland ready yet. Here are 4 that still have X11 as default.
Ubuntu MATE
Ubuntu Cinnamon
Mint Cinnamon
Mint MATE
Yes MATE and Cinnamon are working on Wayland versions but they are still years away. We had 40 years of DEC’s X11 to learn and develop apps with.
Ironically, the security that Wayland does to the video environment is why it is so hard to move from X11 to Wayland. Every desktop and many applications use the “holes” in security to make easy applications that are much harder to code in Wayland.
Hello @Espionage724!
I feel same. After 31 years of using Linux I’m actively moving all my Linux machines to FreeBSD. Yes, there are rough edges (HW support, especially Wi-Fi, broken BitLocker support, and BTW: GPU DRM drivers comes from Linux kernel), but I finally gained back freedom that is missing from current Linux:
- I use again X11 with XFCE and miracle - everything again works as expected (Wayland is forbidding even KeePassXC to do autotype for sake of “security”).
- Using plain RC scripts instead of systemd (that’s miracle, because many Linux people will tell you that systemd is essential for future development)
- ZFS is officially included in kernel and fully supported
- Nobody is pushing me towards Wayland
- Nobody is pushing me to use containers
- Nobody is pushing “CPU Micro-architectures” that have no measurable speed benefit, just produce more e-waste. With one exception: Bhyve hypervisor requires working NPT and IOMMU. But unlike LEAP 16, RHEL9+ it will boot even on 1st 64-bit Opteron machines.
It is gradual process in my case - all machines have dual-boot Linux/FreeBSD so I can easily do Linux-only tasks until I find full replacement.
The only way to remedy that Linux situation is that community will get Linux back - because community created Linux and community morally owns it - but it is very unlikely at this time when even Linux Foundation (sic!) puts 38% of resources to AI, Cloud, Blockchain and other stuff (only commercials are benefiting from that) and just 2% to Linux kernel development (for benefit of both - community and commercials):
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@hpaluchpe and that is the good thing about Linux, you have found something that works for you 
I am a Tumbleweed user myself but as far as I understood the Leap lifecycle is synchronized with SUSE Enterprise Desktop!? Therefore 15 should be around until mid 2028, so about 3 years still. After that however I expect also Tumbleweed to drop X11 support.
I am a happy Xfce user myself, so on X11. From their project homepage it seems like the part that is not yet working is the windowmanager (xfwm). As there is an inofficial xfwm Wayland project in development since a while I hope they will be done in three years’ time.
For LXQt, I think they have a really really small development team. I used it for quite a while and I really like it (minimalistic but still highly configurable). But to me it doesn’t seem that they have the capacities for a really fast boost in Wayland support.
If RHEL, SUSE and Ubuntu are dropping X11 support for their next releases I have my hopes up that more resources will be appoinnted to Wayland related issues and by the time you are forced to use it (in 3 years) it might actually be in good shape.
@DuctTape In this case no, Leap 15.6 will be the end, now you could transition to SLED 15 SP7 with the purchase of a subscription to updates. After that there will be no SLED only SLES…
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I just installed Leap 16.0 beta in Virtualbox and it uses Xorg.
Hooray!
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Please do NOT drop X11 anytime soon.
Wayland is not ready as an (incompatible) alternative.
Think twice before abandoning Xorg. Wayland breaks everything!
For example, the KiCad developers state:
KiCad does run on Wayland systems, but with significant limitations and known issues that substantially degrade the user experience.
Source: KiCad and Wayland Support | KiCad
X11 is essential for the proper functioning of the builk of existing applications that have been built in the past decades.
IBM = Red Hat = Gnome = opendesktop.org have been trying to badmouth X11 for quite a while, but esepcially now that there is an actively maintained, community based fork of the X.Org X11 server, there is no reason to drop X11.
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I was recently at openSUSE conference , well Wayland is de facto standard.
Lets wait and see, its opensource we can improve stuff.
I like both projects, they have own pros and cons.
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That’s what XWayland is for. It functions as a lightweight X server that runs on top of Wayland to support many legacy X11 apps.
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