No more peaceful coexistence of Win7 and Linux?

If I understand correctly, there is no more

“Install Linux as a second OS, and Windows will run as it is. Linux won’t disturb it”.

If Grub is installed on MBR, Windows 7 will not install service pack.

If the MBR is left untouched during the installation of Linux, the active flag has to be switched from Windows’s partition to Linux’s partition. This again will prohibit Windows 7 from installing a service pack.

Thus installing Linux as a second OS and giving the computer to somebody who is not expert in partitioning and booting will lead to trouble if Windows is regularly used.

Is this correct, and is there a solution as to not creating worries for the Windows users by installing Linux?

Was this done intentionally in Redmond?

I have only seen this happen on Vista.
I’m not aware of any win7 service packs to date. But of course Vista and 7 are much the same.

It’s easily worked around. Restore MBR. Install SP.
Re-install grub. A doddle.

Your choice will be the best answer. I have a vista on another partition. I have tried most of the grub boot options and still cannot find a way to settle with that service pack issues. In the end I refused to let that service pack dictate to fix the windows mbr first and just run linux all the time. Now I have a machine with xp for the applications I need outside linux and it is not connected to the internet.:stuck_out_tongue:

I don’t see how this is relevant now? The first service pack for Windows 7 will still take a year to come out.
Then, even if it should be true that you can’t install it with grub installed ( I wouldn’t know why), you could still restore the mbr, install sp, restore grub. Easily done.

We all know Vista was quite the doozie, but luckily I never had any problems dual booting it with Linux.

Dual booting is not the problem. It’s just that before installing the service pack, you have to load the windows dvd to fix mbr and install the service pack, reboot the computer and reinstall grub to run linux. Nah for me just run linux all the time and need not worry about windows.

The problem is, that I cannot service all the computers on which I have installed Linux as a second OS.

And the users, while able to use Linux, cannot do the MBR manipulation to install the service packs for Vista and Windows 7.

Are we talking strictly ‘Service Packs’ or updates in general?

I don’t know about Service Packs, but I’m running Windows and OpenSUSE on my ACER laptop, both has updated a number of times, without problems. But I haven’t yet installed any service packs for windows 7.

Daqar

As far as I know, problematic are service packs only. Namely, the multiple reboots during service pack’s installation do not succeed.

Windows and Linux weren’t hurting each other’s operation with Windows XP.

i may be missing the point entirely or not understanding the true problem, but if the boot sector on the Windows partition needs to be left pristine, why wouldn’t the method described by swerdna here:

Boot Multiboot openSUSE Windows (2000, XP, Vista - any mix) with Windows bootloader.

be useful to solve the updating windows service pack problem?

EasyBCD might be a way around the problem if you set it to autoboot into Windows when the SP installation needs to be done. Haven’t tried it myself yet but can’t see a reason why it won’t work.

Thanks. I have never tried it, but if it works, it should solve the problem.

Maybe swerdna can answer my questions.

What do the values 0 and 1 mean in this line:
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)

Does the method work with Windows 7?

What to do if I don’t have the Windows installation disk to start the repair?

On 12/25/2009 03:36 AM, ZStefan wrote:
>
> j_xavier;2093079 Wrote:
>> if the boot sector on the Windows partition needs to be left pristine,
>> why wouldn’t the method described by swerdna here:
>>
>> ‘Boot Multiboot openSUSE Windows (2000, XP, Vista - any mix) with
>> Windows bootloader.’ (http://opensuse.swerdna.org/suseboot1.html)
>>
>> be useful to solve the updating windows service pack problem?
>
>
> Thanks. I have never tried it, but if it works, it should solve the
> problem.
>
> Maybe swerdna can answer my questions.
>
> What do the values 0 and 1 mean in this line:
> default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)
>
> Does the method work with Windows 7?
>
> What to do if I don’t have the Windows installation disk to start the
> repair?

You do not need it if you do the following:

  1. Install Windows first.

  2. Boot a Live CD of Linux, open a terminal and run ‘sudo /sbin/fdisk -l’. Note
    which partition is active. It will have the * in the Boot column.

  3. When installing openSUSE, have it put GRUB in the partition that you use for
    / or /boot (if it is separate). Do not touch the MBR.

  4. After dual booting is working, again note the active partition. It will have
    changed.

  5. When you want to install a Service Pack in Windows, or you want to get rid of
    GRUB altogether, use fdisk to switch the active partition back to what was found
    in step 2.

  6. To restore dual booting after the SP is installed, or you return to your
    senses, boot a Live CD and use fdisk to set the active partition to what you
    found in step 4.

This is a little off-topic, but there already is a bad interaction between GRUB2 and some boot track protection programs in Windows, strictly speaking not Windows, but OEM installed virus protection. Symptom is that booting Windows kills GRUB2. Seems that GRUB2 uses some disk areas that are “protected” and get wiped out by the “protection”. Karmic was hit by this and may be the cause of some grief in dual booting setups and resulting negative publicity. I encountered this personally on a work machine with Kubuntu Karmic. I have yet to find some time to go into Windows and shutdown the “protection”.

Looks like 11.2 was wise to stick to GRUB1 and merely modify it to handle ext4.

Thanks.

I can, but not every user of the computer with dual booting can do this.

Maybe there is a script for Windows that will switch the active flag twice, second time to original one of opensuse?

Then the user would do, all from within Windows 7:

  1. setactiv /windows
  2. install service pack (rebooting several times)
  3. setactiv /original

I’d be interested to know if this is only when grub is to the MBR. I think Ub* defaults to the MBR.
Although SUSE uses Grub Legacy, it tends to put grub to the extended partition containing the / logical
Care to offer any elaboration on this @ken_yap?

I didn’t investigate very deeply but the people who did suggested that it’s because GRUB2 doesn’t have the stage1.5 and stage2 structure anymore, but reads everything from the boot track. I can imagine that a “protection” program might interpret any modification of the boot track as an intrusion and rewrite it. This is new to Karmic. The previous Kubuntu on this dual boot machine was Jaunty and GRUB1 there never got wiped out by Windows.

I suppose if you don’t put GRUB2 on the MBR but in the partition BR and use Windows bootloader to chain to it, you should be ok.

Generally I have had no problems dual booting with GRUB1 even in the MBR.

That would be one solution to the OP’s question, to continue to use the Windows bootloader and add additional entries to it.