Nepomuk/Strigi/soprano/virtuoso/redland/akonadi/mysql/etc etc

wakou · February 13, 2010, 8:24pm

= a steaming pile of non-functioning ordure.
We had all this with Beagle didn’t we? Everybody ended just by disabling it. (same thing with indexing in MSWindoze IIRC)
Or is this a “solution” looking for a problem?
Does anyone “need” a “semantic” desktop? Or an “Ontological” anything?
I could use clever sounding sounding adjectives which have no meaning too!
I prefer to use good descriptive simple words, but I would get myself banned from the forum.

Anyone here please write a little post, explaining:
What these pains - in - the a*** are supposed to do
How are they to be used when and if they ever work properly?
How to completely remove everything related to this mess, and what should be re-installed to have a functioning system.
I have posted before asking for a simple and functional GUI search, a front end for “find” or even “locate” would be cool, or like the one in Windows XP!
I ended up making an alias for find with a little script from here:
Bash alias with args. - openSUSE Forums
It is far from perfect but it sort of works.
It took me about 20 hours of instruction to learn how to drive a truck. I have earned a living from it ever since. I have spent much more than that with Nepomuck etc etc and it has repaid nothing but pain.
I upped to KDE4.4.0 today and hoped that nepMUCK etc would now function a bit. I have let it do it’s DB four times, deleted .kde4/share/config/nep* and /apps/nep* numerous times, logged out, rebooted, downloaded more bits of Virtuoso, soprano and other stuff, it still can’t find a file. Why is this stuff forced upon us when it is so far from being usable?

Ontology (from the Greek ὄν, genitive ὄντος: of being (neuter participle of εἶναι: to be) and -λογία, -logia: science, study, theory) is the philosophical study of the nature of being, existence or reality in general, as well as the basic categories of being and their relations. Traditionally listed as a part of the major branch of philosophy known as metaphysics, ontology deals with questions concerning what entities exist or can be said to exist, and how such entities can be grouped, related within a hierarchy, and subdivided according to similarities and differences.

Yep, meaningless! and…

Semantics[1] is the study of meaning, usually in language. The word “semantics” itself denotes a range of ideas, from the popular to the highly technical. It is often used in ordinary language to denote a problem of understanding that comes down to word selection or connotation. This problem of understanding has been the subject of many formal inquiries, over a long period of time. In linguistics, it is the study of interpretation of signs or symbols as used by agents or communities within particular circumstances and contexts.[2] Within this view, sounds, facial expressions, body language, proxemics have semantic (meaningful) content, and each has several branches of study. In written language, such things as paragraph structure and punctuation have semantic content; in other forms of language, there is other semantic content.[2]

The formal study of semantics intersects with many other fields of inquiry, including proxemics, lexicology, syntax, pragmatics, etymology and others, although semantics is a well-defined field in its own right, often with synthetic properties.[3] In philosophy of language, semantics and reference are related fields. Further related fields include philology, communication, and semiotics. The formal study of semantics is therefore complex.

Semantics is sometimes contrasted with syntax, the study of the symbols of a language (without reference to their meaning), and pragmatics, the study of the relationships between the symbols of a language, their meaning, and the users of the language.[4]

The word semantic in its modern sense is considered to have first appeared in French as sémantique in Michel Bréal’s 1897 book, Essai de sémantique[5].

In international scientific vocabulary semantics is also called semasiology.

The discipline of Semantics is distinct from Alfred Korzybski’s General Semantics, which is a system for looking at the semantic reactions of the whole human organism in its environment to some event, symbolic or otherwise.

Yes, pretty much meaningless as well.

isaacj87 · February 13, 2010, 8:48pm

Unfortunately, I have to agree with you. I don’t see the point of making it so overly complicated. And if it’s going to be complicated, at least make it work.

I’ve been fighting for days to get this thing to work. And nothing. My fiancée was bragging to me how she popped open Evolution (the PIM in Gnome) and simply did 2 clicks to get Google contacts and calender to sync. Sometimes I wish I had that luxury. I love my KDE, but I can’t deny the fact that I’m frustrated.

user · February 13, 2010, 10:21pm

wakou wrote:
> Why is this stuff forced upon us when it is so far from
> being usable?

you are 100% correct…
no one should force that on you…
they shouldn’t even try!!

if i were you i’d demand they stop…
and, give me all of my money back!!

and, then i would choose for myself exactly what other software i
wanted to use…

yep, that is what i would do–they don’t push me around and force
anything on me!!

–
palladium
which is why i’m writing on openSUSE 10.3 using KDE3.5.7 where
everything works the way I want it…

joutlan · February 13, 2010, 10:54pm

hmmm…mine’s been working, it’s indexing right now…after I update to KDE 4.4, I had to disable Nepomuk, then reenable it and strigi and it’s begun working again. It DID not work until I installed redland and added a folder in my home directory per another recent thread here…

Should it just work after installation? frakking yes.

joutlan · February 14, 2010, 3:27am

OK…my strigi won’t autostart anymore since i’ve update to KDE 4.4…maybe I’ll join in here…

Any clues? Caf or anyone?

gogalthorp · February 14, 2010, 3:48am

It seems to me you can turn it off somewhere in the KDE configure screens.

Also remember you are using beta software here.

If you live on the cutting edge you will bleed.

joutlan · February 14, 2010, 5:22am

It will all work if I start it manually. No need to turn it off, it turns itself off somehow in config after a reboot. Strigi turns itself off, Nepomuk seems to be ok I think.

j_xavier · February 14, 2010, 5:47am

i have expressed similar incredulous statements about the mess that this system/module has been thru in the last year, so i won’t elaborate here… but it doesn’t work for me in spite of the fixes described elsewhere in this forum. It really bothers me that it would be shipped broken, beta is one thing but in a final release i just can’t agree.

for those of you needing quick file search, i’m still using the locate utilities and using dolphin’s handy terminal window to use it for file management operations. works rather well for that purpose but not as well as kde3’s kio-locate. it’s an eyeopener to take so many steps using kde4 then start a kde3 application and use “locate:/stuff” in a Open dialog box (which is an ability that kde4 wouldn’t have even if i could get nepomuk to work correctly)… one step forward, two steps back.

gropiuskalle · February 14, 2010, 6:04am

Pfff… I don’t quite get what you guys are having trouble with. I was never interested in a semantic desktop (I am not sure I actually understand what it’s good for), but I read this thread and decided to give it a try.

I got the same error messages, so I created the redland-folder mentioned here, then launched the systemsettings to set up strigi and Nepomuk and well… that was it. It works for me. First attempt, sucess. Sorry, but creating a folder is not so much work, is it?

Honestly, I think some of the users who are complaining about KDE4 just don’t even try to work things out. I read about instabilities, crashing plasma, slow Dolphins, composite not working, etc. etc., I swear, none of this occurs here. Ever. And I didn’t even had to remove ~/.kde4 since version 4.1.

a steaming pile of non-functioning ordure

This, my friend, is trollism.

it’s an eyeopener to take so many steps using kde4 then start a kde3 application and use “locate:/stuff” in a Open dialog box

Um… there’s a command called ‘locate’. If you like boxes to type text in, use locate with Yakuake or a Konsole-Plasmoid…

isaacj87 · February 14, 2010, 7:30am

To a certain extent, I agree with you. 90% of my 4.4 desktop is completely functional. No problems. No crashes. But in this particular situation, Nepomuk has done nothing but cause problems. I’ve searched for a couple days for a answer, but to no avail. I had the thing working in 4.4 RC3 but not final.

gropiuskalle · February 14, 2010, 8:20am

Okay, I may miss a point here - is there a need for Nepomuk / strigi running? Why don’t you simply switch it off? Or go back to KDE4.3.5 until it’s fixed?

isaacj87 · February 14, 2010, 8:44am

Just call it excitement

You are completely right. And some users, myself included, are being a little hasty and impatient with the situation. We are simply looking for the right solution to the problem.

For now, there is nothing I can do until the problem is sorted out. I, for one, am not going to start bad-mouthing KDE because of one problem. With the pace that KDE is at, the solution to our problem is probably right around the corner.

gropiuskalle · February 14, 2010, 11:50am

We are simply looking for the right solution to the problem.

That is absolutely okay, even being impatient might be. But this…

= a steaming pile of non-functioning ordure. …]
Or is this a “solution” looking for a problem? …]
I could use clever sounding sounding adjectives which have no meaning too! …]
What these pains - in - the a*** are supposed to do …]
Why is this stuff forced upon us when it is so far from being usable? …]
etc. etc.

…is just irritating, unfair and plain wrong. And wakou is missing his own point too, by the way, since what he is searching for…

I have posted before asking for a simple and functional GUI search, a front end for “find” or even “locate” would be cool, or like the one in Windows XP!

…is not a desktop search daemon as strigi, but something much simpler - and it exists, too:

kalle@hoppers:~> zypper if kfind
Loading repository data... 
Reading installed packages...


Information for package kfind:

Repository: KDE4:Factory
Name: kfind             
Version: 4.4.0-150.2    
Arch: i586              
Vendor: obs://build.opensuse.org/KDE
Installed: Yes                      
Status: out-of-date (version 4.4.0-150.1 installed)
Installed Size: 450.0 KiB                          
Summary: KDE Find File Utility                     
Description:                                       
**KFind allows you to search for directories and files.**

knurpht · February 14, 2010, 12:05pm

Did this on somebody’s machine yesterday:

Removed nepomuk folder from ~/.kde4/share/apps
Removed nepomuk files from ~/.kde4/share/config

Logged out, logged in, configured Nepomuk, did a test search on filenames and content, works.

That’s about all I can say about it.

wakou · February 14, 2010, 7:11pm

@ Palladium
of course, you are right, but nepomuck has been so horrible since the beginning, why not release it as an (voluntarily downloaded) app for those who want to beta test and only bundle it when it works reliably?
@ joutlan

installed redland and added a folder in my home directory per another recent thread here…

I thought Redland was now deprecated??? or was that sesame?? or some other??
@gropiuskalle

This, my friend, is trollism.

Ahhh… it has been a very long time since i was invited to indulge in troilism…
Eh?? WHAT??? /wakou puts on reading glasses/
OH, I see now, TROLLISM… In that case, guilty as charged. (blush)

@gropiuskalle again…
Sorry but kfind is absolutely hopeless. If you think that my opinions re. nepomuck were needless and irrtating, please do NOT read this thread:
My Daily Rant - openSUSE Forums
I just tried it again, to be sure. I searched in my home folder for “Noggin”… as you can see there is a file with Noggin in the file name in my home directory. kfind cannot see it, and takes 15 seconds not to see it.
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p145/wakou/samestuff22.png
@Knurpht
It is good to know that it can work without the user having pulled out all remaining hair, but as I put in the original post, I have done all that stuff, deleted nep* logged out, rebooted etc etc etc.
the nepomuck icon sits happily in my tray, smugly looking at me and challenging me to find a use for it.
@everyboodles

I know I sometimes have a good moan and that some find it annoying. I also know that there are people who read these forums, who have influence and access to what is in openSuse and what is not, and I believe that letting them know, even in a slightly tongue in cheek fashion, how enormously frustrating broken software is to the average Joe User, then someone might take notice.
I started the original post with the intention of asking for help, but just trying to think of what to ask gave me a headache. If you read between the lines there were some appeals for help in there!

Again; I know that the way I choose to express myself may not be to everyone’s taste, but hey, it keeps me amused!
To elaborate a little, there is nowhere I have found which gives a concise and clear explanation of what Nepomuck is supposed to do. I have heard that it combines the utilty of sliced bread with the convenience of the tea-bag, coupled with the beauty of applied technology of the iPhone, (I paraphrase somewhat), but no clear, concise, explanation of WHAT IT IS TRYING TO ACHIEVE, and WHY I NEED IT. I could of, course take Palladium’s excellent advice, and use openSuse 10.3, or even puppyLinux and be able to do 95% of what I want to do. BUT I am told that “semantic” desktops are the future, so I want to know about them.

In Q2, again, even if I had the answers to Q1, I have found nowhere giving a concise explanation of HOW they might be used. I have been trying to use the search box in Dolphin, and to an extent in krunner. I confess I have not bothered to spend more than a couple of hours exploring the hidden corners of dolphin, or of krunner, I am sure that they are both already enormously more powerful (even without nepomuck) than I can imagine but until I need to I can’t find the time, energy or inclination to investigate, and why should I? We all know that 95% of people who pay €€€€€€€€€€€ for MSOffice (for instance), don’t have a clue about more than 2% of what it does.
Q3 was worded badly, I need to know how to take out everything that has gone before, along with any mistakes I have made, and re-install so that I can get nep******* to work. As the title of the thread says, there are so many inter-dependent apps here that it is impossible to know! (?)
again I have not been able to find anywhere a concise explanation of how Nep relates to and with Strigi or with akonadi or how akonadi is realted to mysql, strigi etc, then we have virtuoso, soprano, redland, sesame and who knows what else depending upon and interacting with each other.
Lastly, (you will all be relieved to read) Using words like “0ntological” and “semantic” outside of their proper contexts invites scorn. We all know how we groan when some numbskull off the telly talks about something being “light-years away” or “a quantum leap” or similar brainless dressing up, it is disappointing to say the least to find intelligent people from a scientific discipline using the same lazy techniques. Ontological my ar*e. If you are not a metaphysical philosopher, addressing an audience of your peers, why use such a completely empty word?

gropiuskalle · February 14, 2010, 8:05pm

Sorry but kfind is absolutely hopeless. If you think that my opinions re. nepomuck were needless and irrtating, please do NOT read this thread …]

I will do so later. It’s still entertaining.

The funny thing is that your KFind-example shows that even on your system it’s working just fine. There is no file called ‘Noggins’ in that folder, is there? The file is called ‘The Lost Noggins.mp3’, while searching for ‘Noggins’ means searching for a file or folder called ‘Noggins’ and nothing else. KFind works with wildcards, see →here. It says so in the (pretty short) manual. And it’s fast, too.

What’s the matter? Is reading manuals not “amusing” enough?

joutlan · February 15, 2010, 1:05am

Good post!! Mine is working again now per the above at s startup again. KDE 4.4

user · February 15, 2010, 10:09am

wakou wrote:
> @ Palladium of course, you are right, but nepomuck has been so
> horrible since the beginning, why not release it as an (voluntarily
> downloaded) app for those who want to beta test and only bundle it
> when it works reliably?

isn’t it obvious to you that openSUSE doesn’t do that (bundle only
“works reliably” software)? i mean, look at what has been going on:

did/do you consider KDE4 as anything other than BETA software when
released with openSUSE 10.x through to today? even it’s most ardent
supports say today’s 4.4 is “getting really good” (almost none use the
word “reliable” in any paragraph with KDE4.4)

how about Beagle? that dog was default installed and turned on from
sometime during openSUSE 10.0…

to me it is obvious that Novell is using openSUSE as what we used to
call an “open beta test” for SLES/D

> I also know that there are people who read these forums, who have
> influence and access to what is in openSuse and what is not, and I
> believe that letting them know, even in a slightly tongue in cheek
> fashion, how enormously frustrating broken software is to the
> average Joe User, then someone might take notice.

i wonder how much influence you think we users of free (as in beer)
software have compared to the folks planning the release of SLEx 12 as
part of an overall Novell bottom line strategy?

i mean, the Linux side of Novell was the only part to make money in
the last quarter…so, they have a big stake in building on that…so
you think they wanna slow down testing/bug squashing/developing what
might be “the killer apps” for the enterprise market by NOT pushing
beta quality code on to their testers?

maybe i’m wrong, but i consider the entire “openSUSE Community” as
Novell’s Beta Test Team…

and, that is okay with me…

if you want stable and reliable then you should buy SLED or use
CentOS, Slack or other known solid distros…

–
palladium
so far i’m happy with the stable/reliable i get from 10.3 and KDE3.5
and could care less that folks are pulling their hair out chasing the
eye candy of 11.3… ymmv

gropiuskalle · February 15, 2010, 6:04pm

Oh c’mon… KDE4 is in “Factory”, and we all know what these repos contain. Nobody is forced to use it. And yes, “Factory” is for beta-testers who are willing to accept flaws, glitches or even heavy bugs and report them via Bugzilla. That this will also lead to a more stable and tested SLES/D is also the point. It’s not meant for endusers actually. openSUSE (as delivered) is.

I agree that us noneternal users might not have the same influence on what way SuSE goes compared to the SuSE / openSUSE-devs, but I still see a pretty good commutation between both. Take for instance *Ubuntu - their dev-Team seem to live in some kind of cave in unknown territory…

And finally… KDE4 is the work of the KDE-team, not the SuSE-team.

and, that is okay with me…

Oh okay, he.

user · February 15, 2010, 6:01pm

palladium wrote:

<snipe>
> wakou wrote:

> isn’t it obvious to you that openSUSE doesn’t do that (bundle only
> “works reliably” software)? i mean, look at what has been going on:
>
> to me it is obvious that Novell is using openSUSE as what we used to
> call an “open beta test” for SLES/D
>
I sort of agree with whats been said about software today. In the old
days what we called Alpha software is now called Beta and what we
called Beta is now called general Release, let customer debug for us.
MS does this a lot with there software. It’s all software playing
"Keeping up with the Jones’.

openSUSE is more reliable than some packages I’ve used starting in
1960.

Just my two cents.