Need to replace motherboard, new ones have UEFI, is this a prob for multiple distros?

English Install/Boot/Login
#21

Hi
If you need to run win8, I recommend using vmware, vmware workstation v9 has full support for win8 guests under linux host.
even hardware acceleration works fine. Or you can use win host and linux guest.
Opensuse12.2 works excellentas host for vmware9 or vmware8.0.5(except for the win8)
With an ssd and multicore processors there is no preformance degradation either.

I havent dualbooted in years and I need lots of win only programs, win only vpn clients and people send me pested *.docx that openoffice corrupts.
I used to have a win laptop next to the workstation and use synergy to move the mouse around and samba for filesharing,
but now I have a multiscreen linux with lots of windows/linux vms running in window or unity mode with shared storage and it is like working in one single kde environment.

And another thing is you can just move, copy, backup the vms around to any other vmware workstation or server.

We now consolidate everything into wmware vms and I haven’t seen any performance degradation yet. rather the opposite because network latency is almost eliminated.

It cost you some money around 190Euro, but it is worth it.

–
MortenB

#22

On 2013-01-04 05:30, Jim Henderson wrote:
> I don’t see a need to pick nits over corner cases where the general rule
> doesn’t hold. I’m sure I could come up with some unusual corner cases
> myself - that doesn’t invalidate the general usage that I’m describing.

But the thing is, I do not think those cases are so corner cases, that
they are more general than we “hobbits” usually think.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4, with Evergreen, x86_64 “Celadon” (Minas Tirith))

#23

On 2013-01-04 05:27, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Thu, 03 Jan 2013 23:08:10 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>>> I think a better question is “with Windows 8”, because that’s the only
>>> place at which Secure Boot is needed.
>>
>> I don’t use Windows 8 yet, because and I still can boot W7. Different
>> circumstances, different timing, and I would be using 8. Not my
>> choice…
>
> [shrug] I don’t see what this has to do with the discussion at hand,
> Carlos. Since you “can boot W7”, you don’t even need secure boot,
> regardless of whether your system has UEFI or not. So you should have no
> problem at all with it…

But I will. Eventually W7 will be out of maintenance and I will have to
buy a replacement, be it 8 or 9 or 10. Or if the laptop dies earlier.

It is just a question of time. When, not if.

>> The tools I need to use Windows do not run virtualized. :-/
>
> And I’ve said those kinds of things exist - indeed, that’s why I keep
> Windows installed on my hard drive at all when I boot into Linux and run
> it 100% of the time. I used to own a BlackBerry, and flashing that thing
> from a VM was impossible - it had to be native Windows.
>
> But those kinds of tools are actually pretty rare outside of very
> specialized uses (for example, the exam drivers used in testing centers
> absolutely require Windows on bare metal for the implementation of their
> anti-cheating components to prevent screenshots and the recording of item
> banks).

They are not so rare, all of the gadgets I have: phone, gps navigator,
ebook, require Windows for normal updates, and some do not allow a
virtualized Windows. I reported the issue at vmware and got no answer in
years.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4, with Evergreen, x86_64 “Celadon” (Minas Tirith))

#24

On Fri, 04 Jan 2013 12:14:09 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> On 2013-01-04 05:30, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> I don’t see a need to pick nits over corner cases where the general
>> rule doesn’t hold. I’m sure I could come up with some unusual corner
>> cases myself - that doesn’t invalidate the general usage that I’m
>> describing.
>
> But the thing is, I do not think those cases are so corner cases, that
> they are more general than we “hobbits” usually think.

You’re entitled to that opinion. I still don’t see a need to pick nits
over it or try to find “fault” with what I said.

Jim

Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

#25

On Fri, 04 Jan 2013 08:46:01 +0000, mortenb123 wrote:

> Hi If you need to run win8, I recommend using vmware, vmware workstation
> v9 has full support for win8 guests under linux host.

You can also run it under VirtualBox - and that’s mostly free software
(there’s an add-on pack that costs money if you use it in a commercial
setting). I’ve been running the Win8 customer preview that way for
months.

Jim

–
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

#26

On Fri, 04 Jan 2013 12:18:09 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> But I will. Eventually W7 will be out of maintenance and I will have to
> buy a replacement, be it 8 or 9 or 10. Or if the laptop dies earlier.
>
> It is just a question of time. When, not if.

Only if you keep using stuff that requires Windows.

>>> The tools I need to use Windows do not run virtualized. :-/
>>
>> And I’ve said those kinds of things exist - indeed, that’s why I keep
>> Windows installed on my hard drive at all when I boot into Linux and
>> run it 100% of the time. I used to own a BlackBerry, and flashing that
>> thing from a VM was impossible - it had to be native Windows.
>>
>> But those kinds of tools are actually pretty rare outside of very
>> specialized uses (for example, the exam drivers used in testing centers
>> absolutely require Windows on bare metal for the implementation of
>> their anti-cheating components to prevent screenshots and the recording
>> of item banks).
>
> They are not so rare, all of the gadgets I have: phone, gps navigator,
> ebook, require Windows for normal updates, and some do not allow a
> virtualized Windows. I reported the issue at vmware and got no answer in
> years.

I have an e-reader that doesn’t require Windows, and my phone/gps (as one
unit) also doesn’t require it. So there are options that don’t require
windows, it’s all about choosing tech that doesn’t have that requirement.

Jim

–
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

#27

On 2013-01-05 00:05, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Fri, 04 Jan 2013 12:14:09 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> On 2013-01-04 05:30, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>> I don’t see a need to pick nits over corner cases where the general
>>> rule doesn’t hold. I’m sure I could come up with some unusual corner
>>> cases myself - that doesn’t invalidate the general usage that I’m
>>> describing.
>>
>> But the thing is, I do not think those cases are so corner cases, that
>> they are more general than we “hobbits” usually think.
>
> You’re entitled to that opinion. I still don’t see a need to pick nits
> over it or try to find “fault” with what I said.

As you wish.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4, with Evergreen, x86_64 “Celadon” (Minas Tirith))

#28

On 2013-01-05 00:07, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Fri, 04 Jan 2013 12:18:09 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> But I will. Eventually W7 will be out of maintenance and I will have to
>> buy a replacement, be it 8 or 9 or 10. Or if the laptop dies earlier.
>>
>> It is just a question of time. When, not if.
>
> Only if you keep using stuff that requires Windows.

If I had the choice when I bought that stuff… I’m not going to not use
good gadgets just because they require Windows. If two gadgets are
similar, one needs Windows, one not, clearly I’ll choose the other one.
But not if it is a worse gadget.

And more gadgets will come this way. Mmmm… my house alarm can only be
managed properly from Windows Internet Explorer. Interestingly, once I
googled that company and Linux, and found several curriculum vitae from
ex-developpers of that company, naming the technologies they did, and
all were Linux based technologies: embedded platforms, and web apps.

Cute! The company requires you to use iexplorer, but their server is Linux!

What a shame.

> I have an e-reader that doesn’t require Windows, and my phone/gps (as one
> unit) also doesn’t require it. So there are options that don’t require
> windows, it’s all about choosing tech that doesn’t have that requirement.

Only if they are good enough. The Tom-Tom navigator is probably the best
one I have seen so far, and it is a very closed gadget. I’d very much
would love to access it from Linux, but it doesn’t work. Not even a
virtualized Windows works (the current version uses some kind of
encrypted connection).

My Nokia phone can be accessed from Linux, with limited functionality
(really limited). Also, I happen to like Nokia phones (I don’t own a
smart phone), so other brands are not an option - does any brand provide
a Linux based utility? Not that I know.

My e-reader (kobo touch) can be managed from Linux, yes. I can load
books, etc, provided they are DRM free. If they have DRM I think they
have to be loaded via their Windows only software. And software updates
have to be done from Windows, too. Interestingly, the reader is Linux
inside.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4, with Evergreen, x86_64 “Celadon” (Minas Tirith))

#29

On Sat, 05 Jan 2013 01:48:09 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> If I had the choice when I bought that stuff… I’m not going to not use
> good gadgets just because they require Windows. If two gadgets are
> similar, one needs Windows, one not, clearly I’ll choose the other one.
> But not if it is a worse gadget.

That’s your choice to make. Myself, I prefer to find and use tech that
allows me to use my OS of choice. That’s why I have an Android phone
(running CyanogenMod 7.2), a Nook eReader, and I use my phone’s GPS
(which does well enough - I don’t need “the best” if “the best” doesn’t
give me options - I need something that functions “well enough for my
needs”.

YMMV.

Jim

Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

#30

On 2013-01-05 07:30, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Sat, 05 Jan 2013 01:48:09 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> If I had the choice when I bought that stuff… I’m not going to not use
>> good gadgets just because they require Windows. If two gadgets are
>> similar, one needs Windows, one not, clearly I’ll choose the other one.
>> But not if it is a worse gadget.
>
> That’s your choice to make. Myself, I prefer to find and use tech that
> allows me to use my OS of choice. That’s why I have an Android phone
> (running CyanogenMod 7.2), a Nook eReader, and I use my phone’s GPS
> (which does well enough - I don’t need “the best” if “the best” doesn’t
> give me options - I need something that functions “well enough for my
> needs”.

Well enough means giving me the right turn to take on the car, correctly
displayed, and in time, that is aware of traffic jams and corrects the
route dynamically. A phone with a GPS is not a valid choice, sorry
(tried). Primary target is functionality of the gadget; what I have to
use to update it is secondary.

Which is contrary to gadgets such as printers, scanners, etc: these have
to work with Linux as primary target.

>
> YMMV.

Absolutely. Thus I still need Windows, unfortunately. As others say, use
what works for you.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4, with Evergreen, x86_64 “Celadon” (Minas Tirith))

#31

On Wed, 02 Jan 2013 00:46:08 GMT, ratzi <ratzi@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org>
wrote:

>
>Dear Shane,
>
>dwyersm;2514913 Wrote:
>> Thanks Mike,
>> I dont know if it has changed yet, but the statement “Windows 8 ready”
>> on Asus and Asrock mobo pages leaves some uncertainty.
>> I dont know if its means secure boot for Windows 8 only.
>> Can a UEFI mobo straight out of the box have secure boot for Windows 8
>> enabled, even if this bare mobo doesnt come with a PC system or OS?
>
>Honestly, I don’t know in the end.
>I’ve read a bit about it, and it seems, that it finally depends upon
>which signatures (for secure boot) are included on the motherboard by
>the manufacturer.
>
>On the other hand, “Windows 8 ready” can not mean “Windows 8 only”, or
>can it?
>
>A more conclusive question may as well be: can the motherboard still
>boot in standard mode (or in the “old” mode) ?
>That is a question to which a clear answer should be possible by a
>seller!

Not speaking beyond my own direct experience. Recently bought a new
laptop [Dell Inspirion 5720 i think] (desktop replacement class; 17 inch
screen, 1 TB disk, 8 GB ram, dual mode video [Intel 4000 + nVidia c630] w/
hdmi, USB3, quad core processor, CD/DVD/BD player [CD/DVD writer i think].
Came with Win 8. I do NOT like win 8.

Figured out how to get it to boot from DVD (f12 on this machine), applied
PartedMagic to reorganize the HD for new Win 7 and new opensuse 12.1
(overnight task). Yes, i know 12.1 (legacy GRUB) does not support UEFI.
Installed Win 7 and got a pleasant surprise, it automatically provided Win
7 / Win 8 multiboot. I have to have MSWin for workplace comparability
(still working on that).

Next used f12 to install opensuse in the prepared partitions and that went
swimmingly. I can boot to suse in legacy mode or Win 7/8 in UEFI mode.

Next task, unify booting.

YMMV

?-)

#32

On Fri, 04 Jan 2013 04:30:02 GMT, Jim Henderson
<hendersj@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:

>On Thu, 03 Jan 2013 23:04:09 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> On 2013-01-03 20:15, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>> On Thu, 03 Jan 2013 09:44:09 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>
>>>> Not necessarily :slight_smile:
>>>>
>>>> I might be the boss of a site and I want to be sure my employees do
>>>> not boot a different Linux than the one the company installs.
>>>
>>> Of course there are exceptions that could be made - I’m talking in
>>> general terms about individual users using a personal setup. <sigh>
>>
>> Ok, then substitute boss for parents and kids :stuck_out_tongue:
>
>Again, talking in general terms. In general, kids either operate their
>own equipment (if they’re old enough), or their parents set up and
>operate the system, and the kids are users.
>
>That’s still not the general use case of “I bought this computer and
>installed my OS of choice on it” that most hobbyist users are in.
>
>I don’t see a need to pick nits over corner cases where the general rule
>doesn’t hold. I’m sure I could come up with some unusual corner cases
>myself - that doesn’t invalidate the general usage that I’m describing.
>
>Jim

I personally know of at least two exceptions to this, both workmates,
Windoes users. The parents are strictly users, do not know how to install
software, the kids know how and do. In one case a fairly young kid
(12-13) is the effective administrator and makes kid type errors (i want
some space for my new game, and deletes others files). That caused a
family ruckus, one of the files was a large term paper. The underlying
issue was parents that could not be convinced of the personal need for
required expertise on their part.

YMMV

?-)

#33

On 2013-01-06 03:09, josephkk wrote:

> I personally know of at least two exceptions to this, both workmates,
> Windoes users. The parents are strictly users, do not know how to install
> software, the kids know how and do. In one case a fairly young kid
> (12-13) is the effective administrator and makes kid type errors (i want
> some space for my new game, and deletes others files). That caused a
> family ruckus, one of the files was a large term paper.

Oh, my…

Well, I hope he has learned and will not do that next time. Experience
they call it.

> The underlying
> issue was parents that could not be convinced of the personal need for
> required expertise on their part.

Or hire it.

There is a commercial here in Spain that tells parents that the solution
is the cloud, where you can restore your smartphone or tablet everything
when the baby deletes all business contacts of his pa’.

Whatever the cloud is, I still do not know. O:-)

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4, with Evergreen, x86_64 “Celadon” (Minas Tirith))

#34

I use a SATA 80GB drive to multiboot SUSE 11.4, 12.2 and Magiera, and use a 1TB as my separate /home/user disk… what trouble can I expect from a UEFI mobo with regards my preferred setup. I read the noises about Windows 8 only with UEFI, this is scary and wrong, but how will I know how to not purchase one of these mobos. Another caveat is that I regularly like to play and tinker and often reload linux’s, I dont want the BIOS (UEFI) to get in the way and make the whole process bothersome.

To me this indicates a Linux only PC. did I miss something in either of the OP’s posts that indicates he actually wants any windows on it?

I do see concerns about “safe boot”, so if the option to do so is there, turn it off, it’s not needed with a Linux only PC.

#35

I spent so long reading this thread I nearly forgot to reply to the main Question.
Make sure before you buy the board that you can, in the UEFI setup utility switch to “BIOS mode” and turn off “safe boot”, If these can be done moving your hard disks to the new mobo can be done, there are likely to be some further steps however that we can help you with when needed.
It would not hurt to post the make and model of the mobo here before buying it, we may be able to help confirm compatibility.
12.2 should just boot, 11.4 I’m not sure, Mageria not sure, try to boot and tell us what you get, they can be fixed.

#36

Is it not Mageia? Or it is not a typo and such distro really exists?

#37

Is it not Mageia? Or it is not a typo and such distro really exists?

Copied from the OP’s first post , I would say typo, (two ways to spell it according to that post, Mageira and Magiera,). Mine is a third typo Mageria!

#38

On Sun, 06 Jan 2013 02:24:06 GMT, “Carlos E. R.”
<robin_listas@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:

>On 2013-01-06 03:09, josephkk wrote:
>
>> I personally know of at least two exceptions to this, both workmates,
>> Windoes users. The parents are strictly users, do not know how to install
>> software, the kids know how and do. In one case a fairly young kid
>> (12-13) is the effective administrator and makes kid type errors (i want
>> some space for my new game, and deletes others files). That caused a
>> family ruckus, one of the files was a large term paper.
>
>Oh, my…
>
>Well, I hope he has learned and will not do that next time. Experience
>they call it.
>
>> The underlying
>> issue was parents that could not be convinced of the personal need for
>> required expertise on their part.
>
>Or hire it.
>
>
>There is a commercial here in Spain that tells parents that the solution
>is the cloud, where you can restore your smartphone or tablet everything
>when the baby deletes all business contacts of his pa’.
>
>Whatever the cloud is, I still do not know. O:-)

It is the new magic bullet. Makes all guys handsome, all gals pretty,
gives every one more wisdom and energy, etc., Remember object this and
object that all over the place? Marketing Hypesteria.

?-)

#39

Which is why I specifically said that if you’re not dual-booting, then
don’t worry about secure boot, because a UEFI system doesn’t have to
have secure boot enabled unless you’re specifically running Windows 8.

Which is exactly why ratzi said:

Many users will be in a similar situation.
So multibooting with windows therefore still seems to be a critical feature of Linux.

I think it is assumed at this point that going forward people will be installing windows 8 so we need a real solution.

#40

I think it is assumed at this point that going forward people will be installing windows 8 so we need a real solution.

And your suggestion for that solution is?