I don’t want to install anything dealing with the system or KDE, just apps. In particular, I want to install the Ktoon app (and a number of others) that are integrated with KDE but only come in Ubuntu flavor.
Will it work? (perfectly?)
Is this going to screw up my KDE installation?
What should I watch out for when using .deb files for Ubuntu?
You can’t use them.
Look for the source code and build from that
Why can’t I use .deb or .rpm built for other distros? Isn’t that what alien is for? I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’d just like to know what the problems are.
You only mentioned using .deb and not .rpm and nothing about Alien.
I see the Application you mention KTooN has source code
This page tells you about what you need etc…
How to compile KTooN source code | KTooN 2D Animation Tool Kit
My question wasn’t about KToon. My question was about packages and whether I can install .rpms intended for other distributions, or .debs, etc. So far, I’ve learned that you think they won’t work, however, I have yet to figure out why you think this. And don’t tell me experience. I’m looking for some insight into the package structure without reading documentation on all the package formats and a bunch of distros. I did a basic google search on this topic and nothing useful came up. So, enlighten us.
On 2011-05-28 20:06, X61 usr wrote:
> Is this going to screw up my KDE installation?
Possibly.
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 11.2 x86_64 “Emerald” at Telcontar)
I want to install the Ktoon app
What does that mean then?
I think you’re yanking my chain!
Have a look at this
openSUSE software installation hints
KToon was an example of something I’d like to install from a package. There is also K3DSurf which has Debian, Redhat, and general binary distributions. Once again, any package mentioned here is an example of something I would like to download.
The bigger question and the reason I’m writing to this forum is to discover rules for what things play nice with Opensuse 11.4 and what things don’t. Knowing these rules also implies a knowledge of how packages are structured and what the differences are between distros. My understanding of the package system is that it checks that dependencies are fulfilled, uses some sort of symlinks to figure out where to put files & directory structure and then copies them to that location and registers them if necessary. With an application that might depend on a few common libraries and a small directory structure, I don’t see why it wouldn’t work. But you do seem to think it won’t work. So, if you could tell people more about that thinking, that would be great.
On 05/28/2011 08:36 PM, X61 usr wrote:
>
> Why can’t I use .deb or .rpm built for other distros? Isn’t that what
> alien is for? I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’d just like to know what
> the problems are.
ignore the advice of those with thousands of post here and go ahead and
give alien a try…it might work…
i tried it…didn’t work…easier to compile from source…
now, an rpm for another distro has better chance of working than any deb
via alien (in my experience)…but, still it is better, faster, easier
to seek the source.
–
dd CAVEAT: http://is.gd/bpoMD
[NNTP via openSUSE 11.4 [2.6.37.6-0.5] + KDE 4.6.0 + Thunderbird 3.1.10]
Dual booting with Sluggish Loser7 on Acer Aspire One D255
On 2011-05-28 20:36, X61 usr wrote:
>
> My question wasn’t about KToon. My question was about packages and
> whether I can install .rpms intended for other distributions, or .debs,
Because they assume libraries and other files in different places and
different versions, and because things are configured differently.
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 11.2 x86_64 “Emerald” at Telcontar)
On 2011-05-28 21:06, X61 usr wrote:
> The bigger question and the reason I’m writing to this forum is to
> discover rules for what things play nice with Opensuse 11.4 and what
> things don’t. Knowing these rules also implies a knowledge of how
> packages are structured and what the differences are between distros.
> My understanding of the package system is that it checks that
> dependencies are fulfilled,
Yes, to some extent. Only the existence of this or that library.
> uses some sort of symlinks to figure out
> where to put files & directory structure and then copies them to that
> location and registers them if necessary.
Er… no. The locations are hardcoded from package creation. And most code
assumes location of libraries and thing since compilation time - earlier,
actually, that is what the configure phase finds out.
> But you do seem to think it won’t
> work. So, if you could tell people more about that thinking, that would
> be great.
It is a known fact about linux, but don’t ask me the details, I’m not a dev
or packager. It works in some cases, and doesn’t on anothers (most).
Think, for example, how a big package like wvmware, intended for several
distributions, does it. It contains inside tomcat, instead of requesting
the system one. A waste of space, but it works.
Would they do it if it wasn’t necessary (for them)? Otherwise they would
have to create different packages for different distros and different versions.
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 11.2 x86_64 “Emerald” at Telcontar)
No, packages don’t do that. They are basically wrappers around some common archive format like cpio or ar. Files and directories are installed where they came from on the original system, no symlink magic. There are some scripts that are run, pre, post - install and uninstall. The package spells out the dependencies, but the names and versions of the dependencies may be different on another distro, even a different release of the same distro. So for simple packages there may be no issues, but your chances decrease with complex ones.
Why don’t you try it and see what sort of errors you get and report back?
The problem is not in the packaging format (.deb, .rpm or another one) but in the packaged software. The version of the libraries needed to run an application are written in the .deb (control) and .rpm (INFO). If the dependencies are not met, the package won’t install. If you force the installation (or use alien) and symlink the libraries, it will work in maybe 10% of the cases for simple programs. In most other cases, it won’t work or issue a segfault. However if a package is easy to alien, it will be easy to compile too, as soon as you learn how to use rpmbuild - which isn’t very complicated (how to build rpms as an ordinary user?). Until there, you can check the dependencies with apt-cache depends under Ubuntu/Debian for deb packages, rpm -qR on various distros for rpm packages, or the openSUSE specific zypper info --requires.
Examples:
apt-cache depends firefox
rpm -qR MozillaFirefox
zypper info --requires MozillaFirefox
pacman -Qvi firefox (ArchLinux)
If you install a foreign package, you will see one of the following results:
It will work. This is the least likely result.
It won’t work, but it won’t cause any harm.
Due to the differing locations for control files and differing file layouts,
it does not work AND it destroys openSUSE. Unless you really like reinstalling,
stay away from this kind of activity.
If you want a program that is not available as an openSUSE package, build it
from source. That is always safe.
I’d love to do that, but, someone removed “alien” from opensuse repositories, and, the opensuse package I did find won’t load with kpackagekit for some reason (odd for a perl script). So, it’s off to make alien work from source then convert the stuff I want to install from .deb to .rpm then check the rpm files. The .deb distro of Ktoon looked harmless. It puts everything in /usr/local . But Kpackagekit is objecting to something, so, it won’t let me install.
Just so you know, the reason I’m hung up on using packages for major software is because I’ve mixed package management with local builds in the past and what inevitably happens is that someone releases a package for the software I’ve built, and, some new software I install will require that package, and voila, my local build is half clobbered when it auto-installs because the package maintainer made some enhancements. With packages, you at least get a warning that something bad is about to happen so long as people fill out the provides fields correctly.
Well, I may as well compile it too. A while later and after installing about a hundred libs and packages (once I figured out where they were hiding), Ktoon has compiled and has a segmentation error. It’s a horribly complex piece of software that was unlikely to compile without contacting the authors. I guess I get to uninstall and then manually clean my directory structure now.
I just can’t believe that Linux isn’t more mainstream.
Ktoon has compiled and has a segmentation error. It’s a horribly complex piece of software that was unlikely to compile without contacting the authors.
Then using an .rpm from another distro, or worse, a .deb via alien would clearly be a mistake!
This happens sooner or later. But you’ll have the same problem if you alien the package. Btw ‘alien’ is available in the Contrib repo: Index of /repositories/openSUSE:/11.4:/Contrib/standard.
Yes! (I didn’t read the original post up to the end).
The title,
** Need avice on installing Ubuntu Packages **
Install them in ubuntu!
I don’t intend to be a pain, but I have a gift, so I should use it! 