Moderation on these forums...

English Soapbox
1

I’m sick and tired of the blatant contradictories when it comes to moderating these forums:

Hi NatLWalker

It seems to me that you habitually create discussion where you support and praise Microsoft/proprietary products in comparisons with Linux/FOSS products which you often denigrate. That’s prima facie OK because your provocations are essentially civil. But an unfortunate byproduct is that it riles the Linux supporters who sometimes are drawn into heated responses, and peaceful dialog in our forums is jeopardised.

This kind of provocative posting is known as trolling.

Please be warned that it cannot continue here.

Regards
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Basically:

0. Linux users here don’t often create comparisons between Microsoft/Proprietary - which they often denigrate - and Linux/FOSS products?

  1. If you are a Linux supporter. It’s okay to to bash Microsoft Products. This is, after all, a Linux-centric forum.

a. Most posters are Linux-Centric, so they will not take notice of your negative (and often unjustifiably incorrect) remarks IRT Windows.

b. Those posters will not call you a troll, becuase nothing you’re saying is provacative to them.

  1. If you are a Windows supporter, refrain from debunking incorrect information about Windows or giving negative opinions about Linux:

a. You will be labeled a troll instantly, because your remarks will be provocative to a large majority of posters.

b. Your posts will be censored, while even more inflamatory anti-Windows posts are left untouched. Also, rude responses to your posts are sure to be left completely in tact.

Obviously the moderators have no clue what trolling is. Correcting misinformation is not trolling. It’s correcting mis-information.

While I agree my Tone may not be the most attractive (i.e. my STYLE of posting), the same can be said for many others.

But to constantly temp-ban me or barrage me with PMs and warnings just because I’ve stated a fact, corrected misinformation, or disagreed with someone with a seemingly Pro-Windows stance… That’s just blatantly biased.

If my “provocations are essentially civil” (odd choice of contradictory terms there), then please stop sending me these PMs, and please do refrain from “warning me” when I have done nothing to warrant it. If they are prima facie OK but others feel the need to flame about it, then the issue obviously isn’t with me. That doesn’t make it trolling, it just means other posters either need to tone it down, have attitude adjustments, or open up their minds a little more.

Thank you very much, and have a nice day.

And another thing… I did not create any of these discussions. These discussions are - by their very nature - divicive and encourage the breeding of platform and/or flame wars. If the moderators do not like these. They should prohibit the creations of these threads - I certainly am not the OP.

This is not the first time that I’ve complained about the Censorship on this forum. The only freedom you have is to use and rave about F/OSS software here, it seems.

And please don’t complain about me posting the PM. If I had posted a Bill Gates email about how they plan to kill Linux people would rave about it and congratulate me for bringing it out in the open. When you send me a PM it becomes my property. Whether you think it’s rude or not, is your opinion.

2

You don’t seem to understand what trolling is. Negative remarks about Linux among Windows users in a Windows forum generally won’t provoke flames or bad feelings among these users. If I were to visit this site to post comments bashing Windows and extolling Linux, that could easily trigger a flame and be construed be trolling. It’s off-topic and serves no purpose other than to start a heated argument.

It’s no different when you visit a Linux-centric forum. If you begin to comment on why you think Windows is a better system and what’s wrong with Linux, expect things to heat up. This fits the basic definition of trolling.

3

No it doesn’t.

It fits the opinion that it’s trolling because you don’t like what’s being said.

You always have the option to debunk it with facts. If you cannot, then calling someone a troll does not make it so.

Trolling is the intent to start a flamewar by posting intentionally inflamatory posts on a forum. Telling someone “you’re wrong, Windows can do x better and easier than y, and this is how” does not constitute trolling.

The fact that others feel the need to flame on about it has no bearing on the intent of my post, and certainly does not invalidate the content within it.

I understand many people are pationate about this platform, but going off the deep end and then blaming someone else for your apparent lack of self-control does not make them a forum troll. It’s not my job to help someone interact on the forums in a mature manner, adn what you said does not address the obvious bias in moderation on these forums which accompany an [apparently] rowdy community.

If you read many Linux forums or blogs, you’d know calling people trolls has become the token line of defense for many of them, so it’s not that I care if I’m called a troll. I’m just tired of it being used as an excuse to flame, censor, or shut down other points of views.

4

Your claims have been debunked many times, but you persist in carrying on in your personal attack on Linux. Based on your past posts, that seems to be the only reason you are here. This is classic trolling.

5

Incorrect, and I have pointed that out to MODs in PMs many times.

There are many instances where others have personally attacked others first (not necessarily me) and when pointed out to them they simply ignore it and do nothing.

I don’t have that many posts, so if you want I can quote the exchanges I have and you can let me know where anything I’ve said has been debunked. A quit example is around post #196 in this thread: http://forums.opensuse.org/english/community/soapbox/423660-my-take-linux-will-ever-beat-windows-20.html#post2114346

Then right after the moderator posts:

That IS trolling, but apparently not in the eyes of the moderators.

And the excuse of one other:

“I look at videos on MS site, so I know about NT internals…”

Seriously?

6

Whilst it’s an open house as far as anyone can come along to this forum, it is nevertheless OUR house and guess what… we make the rules.

You are far too preoccupied with a literal definition of ‘Troll’

As moderators we are concerned about the spirit of the forum, that it remains peaceful, helpful and clean. By throwing in loaded remarks (be they factual or not) that disrupt the forum (as far as we see it), is trolling (trolling for trouble)- sowing seeds of doubt, generally referred to as FUD. If this were a theocratic arrangement I would label you an ‘Apostate’.

Now look…
Many here use windows and like it, many feel the opposite. Personally, I don’t really like windows, but it can be great if it does what you want. The same can be said about Linux. For me it does what I want, so I’m happy, though I guess windows could do it, I just don’t want the security hassle, bloat and reboots that take forever.

If you like windows - fine
But what’s the point coming here winding folk up. If you use Linux too and want help with an aspect of it - fine, but don’t tag on ‘Why can’t Linux do this, windows does it fine… Linux must SUCK!’

Now go ahead, pick thru that comment and find some words to play with and be pedantic about.

7

To NatLWalker: I just checked your 51 posts here, kinda quickly so E&OE, and can say that you’ve posted helpful advice in response to technical questions about openSUSE in one thread, perhaps two (one is line ball).

We don’t know why you come here and drone on and on about microsoft products, it’s embarrassing.

And why you would publicly state that you’ve been warned for trolling defeats me.

And what’s with all the stuff you wrote above? Why are you looking for a fight all the time? Please take a rest, cool off, go away and eat quickeze.

And my warning still stands.

8

NatLWalker wrote:
> I’m sick and tired of the blatant contradictories when it comes to
> moderating these forums. . .

imHo, we have some fine moderators who do a really good job in a
difficult environment for far too little compensation/thanks…

–
DenverD
When it comes to chocolate, resistance is futile.
CAVEAT: http://is.gd/bpoMD [posted via NNTP w/openSUSE 10.3]

9

I would consider any banging of Microsoft’s drum on a Linux forum trolln’. Facts or not. Just my two cents.

10

To Natlwalker,
While I will conceed that there are many people not just in this forum that don’t really know what a troll is and tend to sling that term around too freely when they don’t like what is said, it also stands that the person who is being called the troll needs to also look at the attitude and way things are presented.
I worked in setting up Microsoft OS based machines and providing support for the same spanning 30 years 1980 - 2010. A support that ranged from installs, configurations, workarounds, and outright applicational development. I have used and worked extensively with Linux flavors since 1997. To really compare ‘Windows’ to Linux ‘Desktop’ is the only fair comparison. Thusly, taking a bare Windows machine and a bare Linux+Desktop machine what do you really have in each?

  1. Linux has the terminal mode as a CLI (run level 3) , Windows has all but dispensed with it (boot to command prompt only offers almost nothing anymore)
  2. Linux has the terminal Window (many choices) , Windows has the MSDOS Window but again a lack of ability to do anything real
  3. Linux has the choice of Desktops and the ability to switch between them and the ability to configure the look and feel, Windows has a one desktop per version and the the ability to configure the look and feel.
  4. In Linux you can work the filesystem from the CLI, or any of many filemanagers, In Windows, until Windows 7, you needed to have Internet Explorer as the filesystem ran only through Internet Explorer. Windows 7 (probably due to new unbundling rules) the filemanager runs through any browser or add-on filemanager.
  5. Linux configuration YUM, HardDrake, YAST, etc all can be run from CLI or their dedicated programs, but in Windows, it’s through the control panel.
  6. Linux has a totally different approach to software configuration than Windows. IMHO a better approach. Where Windows has one huge registry of all apps, all users, all settings that loads to fill memory regardless of how many apps are in use or which user is active, this bloat while it preports to say
    Windows is multi-user multi-tasking, actually works against that end goal. Firstly the registry is encrypted so you need special handling to manage it and the tools are not that efficient. One miss-managed software change can trash the whole registry.
    In Linux, Each program has a master set of settings for the software held separate, each user also has there own setting files for their apps held separate and when a user starts an instance of an app, at the time the settings specific to that app load. If an app is removed, also the settings are removed. So no special registry manipulate tools, no registry crashes, no registry bloat, and a major decrease in memory wastage.
  7. On Software management/Package management, Linux uses repo’s of applications designed for specific versions and because of such in a sense knows about all software whether or not it is installed. Windows only knows about software that a user has installed.
    *** I end Linux / Windows comparison there since when you start adding software to the base OS to make it functional you are no longer comparing just the OS’s ***

When I reviewed a thread you responded to in ‘Adobe + Microsoft’ you made a statement about openoffice vs WordPerfect which did not contain ideally correct information. And here I may even not have my ducks all in order. openoffice if I recall correctly, was spawned from Star - office and came onto the scene in 1998 as a flegling editor. WordPerfect by SSI (Satellite Software Inc) cira 1976 was installed into DEC dumb terminals and ran by dot commands. It was quite the feat for the time, it offered things like italic, bold, super/subscript, block copy and move, save to server, reload from server, and the ability to print up to 256 documents to up to 256 printers of different types. It was also written entirely in assembly language. In 1978, it was ported to UNIX, and c/pm based machines. In 1980, it was ported to the PC and grew to such aclaim that it spawned into WordPerfect Corporation and was later aquired by Corel. In 1998 it was ported to Linux, but Corel decided to drop the Linux port a few years later.
The point of this is to say, that to compare this powerhouse app with over 19000 pluggins to openoffice which is just now starting to add pluggins is either grossly unfair to openoffice or highly praiseful of the strides openoffice has made.

I’m with Swerna here, you can state your position without going into fight mode.

11

+1

On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 13:30:21 +0530, DenverD
<DenverD@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:

> NatLWalker wrote:
>> I’m sick and tired of the blatant contradictories when it comes to
>> moderating these forums. . .
>
> imHo, we have some fine moderators who do a really good job in a
> difficult environment for far too little compensation/thanks…
>

–
Using Opera’s revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

12

Thanks for the support folks.

I normally don’t make public statements about “moderation” actions. But the OP has raised this thread and I suppose I should say here that the OP has been suspended with an invitation to have the suspension lifted by agreeing to conform to the T&C.

I have to say this to let you know that the OP can’t post here ATM to reply to anything further that you folks might say, and I suppose it’s only fair at this point to close the thread.