12.3, KDE
It came as a surprise that make and gcc are not installed by default. It only happened to me when I was using Puppy Linux. Why is that?
Most people won’t use “gcc”, so it seems a reasonable decision.
When installing from the DVD, I always choose to install base development. That include gcc, make, and similar basic stuff.
Thank you for replying.
“Most people won’t use gcc”. How do you know that? Maybe you suppose that the developers read the statistics about how many users actually used gcc. If that’s so, then you may be right, but I doubt.
“When installing from the DVD, I always choose to install base development. That include gcc, make, and similar basic stuff.” Well, I did that too, but no gcc, make etc. I really don’t know why.
Even if it’s not a big thing to install gcc and make after the base dev install., it’s disappointing that the decision to take out gcc and make from the default installation has been made.
Well I’ve used openSUSE since 10.1 and it has never in that time included development tools as a default. They are there just not installed by default. But it is really simple to add them soooo.
Maybe not most people, but a pretty good percentage do. Besides, openSUSE is open source, and it would seem natural to have the tools on hand to build your own custom platform.
I can’t confirm this. I have used 11.3 (gcc and make included in the default inst.), 11.4 (gcc and make included in the default inst.), 12.1 (gcc and make included in the default inst.), 12.2 (gcc and make included in the default inst.), but 12.3 - not included. I know it’s easy to install them, but that’s not the point.
You must have opted for this yourself in the oS installation, because as gogalthorp says, they’ve never been included in the default installation, going back to 10.0 for me.
So the base development installation includes all that. OK.
nrickert wrote:
>
> Most people won’t use “gcc”, so it seems a reasonable decision.
>
> When installing from the DVD, I always choose to install base
> development. That include gcc, make, and similar basic stuff.
>
>
People who build packages / compile stuff / may need gcc.
Why would a normal user whose needs comprises of the following need gcc ?
*playing songs/videos ,
*see TV,
*scan,
*print
*browse
*edit some documents
Also if a person writes java code for a living, then he/she needs javac
more than gcc 
–
GNOME 3.6.2
openSUSE Release 12.3 (Dartmouth) 64-bit
Kernel Linux 3.7.10-1.16-desktop
And we have a nice pattern for each user case.
$ sudo zypper search -t pattern devel
Loading repository data...
Reading installed packages...
S | Name | Summary | Type
--+-----------------+-------------------------------------+--------
i | devel_C_C++ | C/C++ Development | pattern
i | devel_basis | Base Development | pattern
| devel_gnome | GNOME Development | pattern
| devel_ide | Integrated Development Environments | pattern
| devel_java | Java Development | pattern
| devel_kde | KDE Development | pattern
| devel_kernel | Linux Kernel Development | pattern
| devel_mono | .NET Development | pattern
| devel_perl | Perl Development | pattern
| devel_python | Python Development | pattern
| devel_qt4 | Qt 4 Development | pattern
| devel_rpm_build | RPM Build Environment | pattern
| devel_ruby | Ruby Development | pattern
| devel_tcl | Tcl/Tk Development | pattern
| devel_web | Web Development | pattern
On Fri, 18 Oct 2013 15:16:02 +0000, riderplus wrote:
> 12.3, KDE
>
> It came as a surprise that make and gcc are not installed by default. It
> only happened to me when I was using Puppy Linux. Why is that?
As nrickert said, not everyone uses it. It’s finding a balance between
the people who ask “why don’t you install x” and “why do you install
stuff I don’t want?”.
Either way, you’re going to have someone who’s unhappy about it, and
someone’s going to complain about it.
But the decision makers are generally not here in the forums - you could
ask on the openSUSE mailing lists, but the answer you get probably will
be what you’ve been told here.
Jim
–
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C
On 2013-10-18 22:39, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Oct 2013 15:16:02 +0000, riderplus wrote:
> Either way, you’re going to have someone who’s unhappy about it, and
> someone’s going to complain about it.
>
> But the decision makers are generally not here in the forums - you could
> ask on the openSUSE mailing lists, but the answer you get probably will
> be what you’ve been told here.
It has been asked previously there. It is in the archive somewhere.
Plus, the people that want gcc usually know how to get it, whereas many
of the people getting it without wanting/needing it do not know yet how
to remove it, or that they can remove it.
I mean, it is less nuisance to install it than to remove it.
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 “Dartmouth” at Telcontar)
Carlos, at some point everyone will need those tools. I can’t imagine people won’t have to run “make” at all. Not all programs come in repos, some are .tar.gz archives that need to be extracted and afterwards compiled.
I KNOW at least 2 persons who NEVER have used make (and didn’t have somebody else use it for them, either). Lenwolf
i derive all my requirements from OBS either from official(OSS,NonOss,Update,NonOss -update) or occasionally unofficial repos(mozilla, home repos) etc…
Install extensions from extensions.gnome.org and some themes from deviantart. Never had to build software and i use Linux for almost 3 years now
On 2013-10-21, riderplus <riderplus@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
> Carlos, at some point everyone will need those tools.
I know you’ve addressed this to Carlos, but to suggest everyone' will need them is too sweeping a generalisation. There are plenty of Linux users I know who are perfectly happy with binary-only software installations. I even suspect it is this a Holy Grail’ for some of the more popular distributions.
> I can’t imagine people won’t have to run “make” at all.
It happens. People who don’t venture much outside the basic repos do exist.
> Not all programs come in repos,
> some are .tar.gz archives that need to be extracted and afterwards
> compiled.
True: not all programs come in repos. But not all users use programs that come outside repos. It could be argued
(although not necessarily by me) that the need to install a useful program from source constitutes a failure of a
particular distribution.
On the other hand…
I think it’s perfectly reasonable to suggest that every Linux installation should include gcc, make, and vim. I’m not
sure the inclusions of such packages comes under the XPG4 UNIX specification, but I wouldn’t be surprised.
On 2013-10-21 10:36, riderplus wrote:
> Carlos, at some point everyone will need those tools. I can’t imagine
> people won’t have to run “make” at all. Not all programs come in repos,
> some are .tar.gz archives that need to be extracted and afterwards
> compiled.
I have machines without those things and never used them there. The only
current “need” I have is when installing proprietary things like vmware,
and that affects only one machine.
No, I don’t install any thing that I have to build myself, since a long
time (years?). I have almost forgotten how to do it.
In fact, the newest rpm I have under /usr/src/packages/RPMS/ seems to be
dated Feb 2012.
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 “Dartmouth” at Telcontar)
On Mon, 21 Oct 2013 08:36:02 +0000, riderplus wrote:
> Carlos, at some point everyone will need those tools.
Nope.
My wife runs openSUSE 12.2 on her laptop and never, ever, EVER has had to
compile anything. What’s more, if she had to, she wouldn’t have any idea
how to even get started.
Jim
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C
I recently needed the compiler for the “nvidia” driver on one computer, though in retrospect I should have stayed with “nouveau”.
Apart from that, it has been around 3 years since I last needed to use a compiler.
I do use “make” with latex.
Well, thank you!
OK, when I generalize I’m not composing syllogisms, you know 
It’s not like that. I generalize in a commonsensical way. I should have said “most of the Linux users need make”, maybe it would have been more proper.
I’m sure there are many many users who install software ONLY from repos. Maybe I’m outdated, I don’t know, I just figured out from those forums that I use to visit that Linuxers still enjoy compiling and stuff, but yeah, maybe it’s too hasty to say “most of the Linux users”. I guess someone should open a poll for this.