Linux Preinstalled on phones and Tablets, petition to OEMs!

English Open Chat
#1

Hello OpenSuse friends,

This petition just started in order to show to Phone and Tablet manufacturers that there is huge demand for REAL and FULLY fledged Linux like OpenSuse PREINSTALLED on their devices and not stripped down and corporate controlled OSs like ChromeOS and Android!

If you agree, please take a moment to sign:
http://www.change.org/en-AU/petitions/personal-computing-and-smartphone-manufacturers-be-part-of-the-computing-revolution-2?utm_source=guides&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=petition_created

Thank you and hasta la victoria siempre!

#2

On 2014-01-21, Citizenious <Citizenious@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
>
> Hello OpenSuse friends,
>
> This petition just started in order to show to Phone and Tablet
> manufacturers that there is huge demand for REAL and FULLY fledged Linux
> like OpenSuse PREINSTALLED on their devices and not stripped down and
> corporate controlled OSs like ChromeOS and Android!
>
> If you agree, please take a moment to sign:
> http://tinyurl.com/mtzzehm
>
> Thank you and hasta la victoria siempre!

I think in such appeals, you should really be more specific. Do you mean just Linux (which Android certainly is) or
GNU/Linux (which Android certainly isn’t).

#3

I mean GNU/Linux! If you read the petition page it is clearly stated :slight_smile:

Thanks for the clarification.

#4

Not tried http://jolla.com/ yet?

#5

On 2014-01-21 15:46, Citizenious wrote:
>
> I mean GNU/Linux! If you read the petition page it is clearly stated :slight_smile:
>
> Thanks for the clarification.

It is futile and naive.

You have first to create phones using pure Linux and offer it to the
masses. I’d bet they will not take them. Only those people that are
already convinced to use Linux.

You will not convince businesses to shoot their own foot by trying to
create such a competition, no matter how many people petition for it.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 “Dartmouth” at Telcontar)

#6

On 2014-01-21, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
> You have first to create phones using pure Linux and offer it to the
> masses. I’d bet they will not take them. Only those people that are
> already convinced to use Linux.

What do you mean by pure Linux'? Android is 100% Linux. And so a pure Linux’ has already been offered to masses and
very successfully. It’s the fact that it’s 0% GNU which is what makes it so different from regular distros. With this
kind of misterminology, I’m becoming somewhat sympathetic to the FSF’s desire to adopt the terminology of GNU/Linux' as distinct from Linux’ when referring to the operating system.

#7

On 2014-01-22 02:01, flymail wrote:
> On 2014-01-21, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
>> You have first to create phones using pure Linux and offer it to the
>> masses. I’d bet they will not take them. Only those people that are
>> already convinced to use Linux.
>
> What do you mean by pure Linux'? Android is 100% Linux. And so a pure Linux’ has already been offered to masses and
> very successfully. It’s the fact that it’s 0% GNU which is what makes it so different from regular distros. With this
> kind of misterminology, I’m becoming somewhat sympathetic to the FSF’s desire to adopt the terminology of `GNU/Linux’ as

distinct from `Linux’ when referring to the operating system.

It is Linux underneath, but you can not use it. It is irrelevant. What
everybody knows is the Android system on top and the zillions of
applications on top. Many gratis and some payware.

Many users do not know and do not even care that there is a Linux layer
on those phones.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 “Dartmouth” at Telcontar)

#8

On 2014-01-22 03:22, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2014-01-22 02:01, flymail wrote:

> It is Linux underneath, but you can not use it. It is irrelevant. What
> everybody knows is the Android system on top and the zillions of
> applications on top. Many gratis and some payware.
>
> Many users do not know and do not even care that there is a Linux layer
> on those phones.

And I forgot to mention that to distribute android apps, you have to
abide by their rules. It is not an open environment. Or got your own
route, which means that if devs want to use a map, they can not use
google maps. You have to provide them something else for maps. Amazon is
doing this, I believe.

Does anybody distribute Linux apps you can run on Android devices,
without rooting it (and voiding the warranty)?

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 “Dartmouth” at Telcontar)

#9

What you say doesn’t make sense. I think all OEMs except (microsoft & apple)liked it very much when they got Android for free and they didn’t have to rely solely on MS for expensive, not functional, proprietary OS for mobile devices.

What I’m petitioning for is “the next step” after Android. The mobile devices (phones, tablets) are becoming more and more full PCs, so they need a fully fledged OS like OpenSuse or Ubuntu Touch otherwise the OEMs will have to go back to MS Windows again. This is the opportunity for Linux, if you don’t understand it I can’t help you.

#10

On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 02:28:11 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> Does anybody distribute Linux apps you can run on Android devices,
> without rooting it (and voiding the warranty)?

Rooting doesn’t necessarily void the warranty. Depends on the carrier.

The point that Android uses the Linux kernel, though, is correct. There
are plenty of systems that use the Linux kernel that are less modifiable
by default, though. Many consumer routers use a Linux kernel, but are
locked down. OpenELEC is entirely Linux (runs XBMC), but it’s locked
down to the point you can’t change root’s password (not a problem if you
leave SSH disabled or have other security in place to prevent access to
the device).

And yes, Amazon has their own market. So does Barnes & Noble.

Jim

Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

#11

On 2014-01-22 06:45, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 02:28:11 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> Does anybody distribute Linux apps you can run on Android devices,
>> without rooting it (and voiding the warranty)?
>
> Rooting doesn’t necessarily void the warranty. Depends on the carrier.

Or brand phone, probably. I don’t want to risk it unless I really need
it. I treat it like an appliance, not a computer.

> The point that Android uses the Linux kernel, though, is correct.

Oh, absolutely.

> There
> are plenty of systems that use the Linux kernel that are less modifiable
> by default, though. Many consumer routers use a Linux kernel, but are
> locked down. OpenELEC is entirely Linux (runs XBMC), but it’s locked
> down to the point you can’t change root’s password (not a problem if you
> leave SSH disabled or have other security in place to prevent access to
> the device).

I don’t know if you can change the Linux system underneath Android.

Yes, several of my gadgets here are Linux inside. Some I can access,
some just barely. Some can be flashed with alternative firmwares (often
better than the original).

I heard a bit about something similar to Android devices, there are
firmwares going around.

> And yes, Amazon has their own market. So does Barnes & Noble.

Ah, I didn’t know about the second.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 “Dartmouth” at Telcontar)

#12

On 2014-01-22 06:36, Citizenious wrote:
>
> robin_listas;2618296 Wrote:
>> You have first to create phones using pure Linux and offer it to the
>> masses. I’d bet they will not take them. Only those people that are
>> already convinced to use Linux.
>>
>> You will not convince businesses to shoot their own foot by trying to
>> create such a competition, no matter how many people petition for it.
>
> What you say doesn’t make sense. I think all OEMs except (microsoft &
> apple)liked it very much when they got Android for free and they didn’t
> have to rely solely on MS for expensive, not functional, proprietary OS
> for mobile devices.
>
> What I’m petitioning for is “the next step” after Android. The mobile
> devices (phones, tablets) are becoming more and more full PCs, so they
> need a fully fledged OS like OpenSuse or Ubuntu Touch otherwise the OEMs
> will have to go back to MS Windows again. This is the opportunity for
> Linux, if you don’t understand it I can’t help you.

Petition to whom? Who is going to pay for the huge money needed to
create a new ecosystem? What return on investment would they get?

Why would they need something else than Android? Why would not Android
evolve to keep that market? They are already there, they have a huge
market share, which means that people love it.

Surely you can build Linux based phones. I heard of a few. Barely
testimonial.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 “Dartmouth” at Telcontar)

#13

On 2014-01-22, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
> Surely you can build Linux based phones. I heard of a few.

So have I, such as the HTC One or Galaxy S4 :).

On 2014-01-22, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
> It is Linux underneath, but you can not use it. It is irrelevant. What
> everybody knows is the Android system on top and the zillions of
> applications on top. Many gratis and some payware.
>
> Many users do not know and do not even care that there is a Linux layer
> on those phones.

A phone is, as you say, an appliance and therefore no user should really care about the specific choice of operating
system. The notion of making Android truly open GNU/Linux-style is therefore equivalent to suggesting that car
manufacturers should make their firmware open. So of course, I’d expect any warranty to be annhiliated by manually
over-riding the firmware. Anyone who wants to use a phone to open bash and `sudo’ anything should probably get out more.

On 2014-01-22 03:22, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2014-01-22 02:01, flymail wrote:
It is Linux underneath, but you can not use it. It is irrelevant.

If you are referring to its use, I entirely agree.

On 2014-01-22 03:22, Carlos E. R. wrote:

Many users do not know and do not even care that there is a Linux layer
on those phones.

I agree, but I would add that any user who thinks Android as a `distro’ should be made aware of the difference between
Linux and GNU/Linux.

#14

On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 10:48:07 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> On 2014-01-22 06:45, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 02:28:11 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>
>>> Does anybody distribute Linux apps you can run on Android devices,
>>> without rooting it (and voiding the warranty)?
>>
>> Rooting doesn’t necessarily void the warranty. Depends on the carrier.
>
> Or brand phone, probably. I don’t want to risk it unless I really need
> it. I treat it like an appliance, not a computer.

It might depend on that as well, yes. And yes, most people want a phone
that’s an appliance - that’s why some Linux geeks I know actually prefer
an iPhone - they’re not inclined to tinker with it.

>> There are plenty of systems that use the Linux kernel that are less
>> modifiable by default, though. Many consumer routers use a Linux
>> kernel, but are locked down. OpenELEC is entirely Linux (runs XBMC),
>> but it’s locked down to the point you can’t change root’s password (not
>> a problem if you leave SSH disabled or have other security in place to
>> prevent access to the device).
>
> I don’t know if you can change the Linux system underneath Android.

Depends on the configuration. I’ve got Cyanogen running off an SDcard on
my Nook HD+, and I can tweak that a lot of different ways. I’ve
installed openVPN on it so I can connect it back to my router.

But I’ve even built Android images to run on my phone (I was
troubleshooting a bluetooth issue that turned out to be a dead headset,
but I was rolling my own Cyanogenmod 7 installations for a bit.)

> Yes, several of my gadgets here are Linux inside. Some I can access,
> some just barely. Some can be flashed with alternative firmwares (often
> better than the original).
>
> I heard a bit about something similar to Android devices, there are
> firmwares going around.

I run Cyanogenmod, one of the more popular alternative firmware builds.
7.2 on my (and my wife’s) phones, 10.2 from the sdcard on my Nook HD+, as
I mentioned.

>> And yes, Amazon has their own market. So does Barnes & Noble.
>
> Ah, I didn’t know about the second.

B&N also now uses the Play store, so you can get stuff from both places.

Actually, HumbleBundle has their own market-like application, too. It
manages installed apps from the Humble Bundles, but you can’t make the
purchases through their app.

Jim

–
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

#15

On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 13:55:58 +0000, flymail wrote:

> Anyone who wants to use a phone to open bash and `sudo’ anything should
> probably get out more.

Actually, there are perfectly legitimate reasons, and while I’m not
taking this personally, I’m going to remind you to take care not to
engage in personal attacks.

(Though arguably, I do need to get out more, too. :wink: )

I stream video from my desktop to my PS3, and occasionally, I need to
kick the streaming server for whatever reason. It’s handy to be able to
ssh from my phone or tablet to my desktop to do it. Saves me having to
go into the other room.

I also can connect to my systems remotely using openVPN and check on
stuff. Very handy to be able to do that.

Jim

–
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

#16

On 2014-01-22, Jim Henderson <hendersj@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
> Actually, there are perfectly legitimate reasons, and while I’m not
> taking this personally, I’m going to remind you to take care not to
> engage in personal attacks.
>
> (Though arguably, I do need to get out more, too. :wink: )

Apologies; the statement was made in jest, with no offence intended. On the other hand, it could be argued that the
statement may hold some water :).

#17

You’ve probably lost your bet because they already have with https://sailfishos.org/ which uses zypper to install apps.

#18

On 2014-01-22 23:16, john hudson wrote:
>
> robin_listas;2618296 Wrote:
>> You have first to create phones using pure Linux and offer it to the
>> masses. I’d bet they will not take them. Only those people that are
>> already convinced to use Linux.
>
> You’ve probably lost your bet because they already have with
> https://sailfishos.org/ which uses zypper to install apps.

Well, then no petition is needed :slight_smile:

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 “Dartmouth” at Telcontar)

#19

On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 19:17:35 +0000, flymail wrote:

> On 2014-01-22, Jim Henderson <hendersj@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
>> Actually, there are perfectly legitimate reasons, and while I’m not
>> taking this personally, I’m going to remind you to take care not to
>> engage in personal attacks.
>>
>> (Though arguably, I do need to get out more, too. :wink: )
>
> Apologies; the statement was made in jest, with no offence intended. On
> the other hand, it could be argued that the statement may hold some
> water :).

I figured as much, but not all of our users are fluent in English, and
the nuance might be lost on them. We do have a sense of humo(u)r here. :wink:

Jim

–
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

#20

And what about tablets? Is there even a single one with fully fledged GNU/Linux preinstalled?

The whole point of the petition is to show to ALL OEMs that there is big demand, which means for them big profit to be made. You don’t seem very eager to see GNU/Linux on the popular mobile devices. Maybe you just prefer Linux to be an oddity for geeks only and not the free OS for everybody. A little soul searching probably needed.