Linux developers need to open the **** eyes

I totally agree… Linux got huge amount of applications.

Lets say, for office peoples, there are 3 major alternatives, Open Office, KOffice, Gnome apps. At last i know OO read all MS Office documents, so for OO the switch is less painful.

Now, lets continue your idea, not everybody needs windows to run some comercial applications who run only native on. But thats other story.

lets picture the fallowing scenario:
-developer company: “we offer you our latest version of … doing… etc etc”
-customer:“there is a linux version?”
-developer company: “sorry, we focus on window”
-customer:“oh, ok… call us when its run on linux”

So, my idea is, that all the commercial applications, specialized for some things, who run only on windows will have linux versions when customers will ask for them. Is just like that, the switch needs to be made from users, not from software developers… i am referring at os switch of course.

Why users dont make the switch?

Because most of the commercial applications are used on platforms supported by buisness entities that do not have suffcient incentive to invest the time and/or resources toward adopting a different environment.

> But when it comes to Linux, it handles all but the “play games” bit
> really well, and Linux gaming isn’t exactly in the dark ages.

that is the truth, have you TRIED bzflag???


DenverD (Linux Counter 282315)
A Texan in Denmark

Something which hasn’t come up as yet is that linux is now coming preloaded on notebooks and desktops from a number of companies. I got my xandros-loaded eepc last week. (That said, xandros SUCKS). I look at that as, if not proof, then a sign that linux is becoming more accepted as a mainstream alternative for windows and osX.

For example: Just the other day I went into a silver shop, and noticed that the proprietress was running ubuntu on her Dell, she told me it had come with the laptop. Happy days!

I think OEM preinstalled Linux is a huge step. Many people don’t feel comfortable formatting their computer and installing an OS on their own. A preinstalled OS also means all the hardware is already set up.

Sometimes you have to wait for a paradigm change (sorry for the marketese). For instance, I heard about a big organisation that’s decided to go with Gmail as their mail service (corporate deal, X dollar per year per seat). Bang, there goes a reason to have Exchange. Say for example a bright spark in another organisation figures out that people sending around Word document is a waste of resources, why not go to a notes-type messaging system. Works well with road warriors with small screen devices too. Bang, there goes the reason for needing M$Office on most desktops.

In short, why attack the castle head on? Sneak in the back way. :smiley:

Linux systems have MUCH LESS compat code than Windows. Realistically, the only thing guaranteed to work are programs that have been statically compiled (Unreal Tournament² GOTY) or use known-good versions of shared libraries (e.g. VMware in fallback mode). Or in technical terms: the syscalls. Nothing more.

Been there, done that.

(²Additionally uses known-good libraries if you do it right.)

On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 23:26:03 +0000, lasterror wrote:

> Jim Henderson;1834542 Wrote:
>> On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 23:36:04 +0000, Slammer64 wrote:
>>
>> > Also you need to throw in the fact, that regardless of anything
>> else,
>> > people are conservative when it comes to computing. That and most
>> folks
>> > only want to “write e-mail, do a little IM’ing, browse the web and
>> play
>> > games”.
>>
>> And write documents - I think most people do that as well.
>>
>> But when it comes to Linux, it handles all but the “play games” bit
>> really well, and Linux gaming isn’t exactly in the dark ages.
>>
>> Jim
>
> Actually… the linux gaming it is in dark ages…

Well, I disagree, but then I’m not a heavy gamer, either.

> Name 10 good comercial games comparable with windows top games…
> 1…2…3… and…

Personally, I don’t like “top Windows games”, I find them to be good
looking, but generally speaking what I see of playability is that they’re
less playable than the games I grew up with.

Jim

On Tue, 08 Jul 2008 10:11:10 +0000, DenverD wrote:

>> But when it comes to Linux, it handles all but the “play games” bit
>> really well, and Linux gaming isn’t exactly in the dark ages.
>
> that is the truth, have you TRIED bzflag???

I’ve a feeling I’m about to become an addict - this is the sort of game I
really enjoy. :slight_smile:

Jim

On 07/08/2008 elsewhere wrote:
> The whole “gaming” thing is overblown, me thinks.

The only reason I still have a Windows install on my machine is that most games I like don’t run on Linux. I don’t think it is overblown.

Uwe

Yeah, I agree. Gaming is not in any way insignificant when you look at sales figures.

Uwe Buckesfeld wrote:

> On 07/08/2008 elsewhere wrote:
>> The whole “gaming” thing is overblown, me thinks.
>
> The only reason I still have a Windows install on my machine is that most
> games I like don’t run on Linux. I don’t think it is overblown.
>

Edited your quote for emphasis, and that’s my point. People that play games often assume everyone else does, too.

Don’t get me wrong, I boot into Win myself to play the odd game, so I’m not dismissing it as intangible.

There’s something like 1B people using PCs on this little blue planet we live on. A staggering majority of them don’t have broadband internet access, and in fact a significant number are still running 95/98.

Gamers are a slice of the market, much as linux users are. They’re not representative. A gamer assuming that linux will fail if it doesn’t support gaming is understandable, from their perspective, but not necessarily relevant to the actual potential userbase.

The problem, IMHO, is that debates about desktop-linux adoption always occur among people that are already using linux. It’s like asking for an opinion when we already know that everyone has the same basic opinion.

Linux advocates often seem to assume that everyone is desperate to get away from the evil clutches of Windows and Microsoft, but that’s simply not true. Regardless of the many warts and bumps that Windows has, people know it and they’re comfortable with it. And any marketer will tell you that people are inherently resistant to change.

If we want to see linux succeed on the desktop, we need to quit applying our own collective perspectives to what it needs; rather, we need to determine what it is that the average user really values from using a PC, and determine what linux can do differently and to better advantage.

Replacing Windows isn’t an option. Linux needs to be a viable alternative if it wants to truly drive adoption.

Put another way, gamers won’t care. They have already resigned themselves to purchasing games and playing them on Windows, because to them, the value is in the game, not the platform. The “draw” of the game outweighs the draw of the platform. So it doesn’t necessarily make sense for game producers to focus on linux, when they already know their customers will buy their products anyways and play them on Windows.

Linux needs to differentiate itself, and stand on it’s own two feet. Certainly there are issues that need to be addressed from a usability POV compared to proprietary OSes, but matching them isn’t enough. Linux needs to do something differently or better, in a way that offers clear value to the user, if it is going to draw interest. Simply emulating what Windows can do won’t cut it.

We need to quit acting like Microsoft is the only obstacle for desktop linux adoption, and start questioning what it is that potential users really want to see and do.

Just my 2c…

Cheers,
KV

I would say that potential users simply want to do what they are currently able to accomplish (with the possibility of added features) but with a lesser degree of dependence, cost and maintenance.

I have to agree here. My example is my 82-year old mother, whose relatively old Dell is setup by my wife and I to tri-boot between:

  • winME
  • winXP
  • openSUSE-10.2
    My mother really likes winME (which is the distribution that many users have disparaged) and she really dislikes winXP (which is the OS all the family but me were pushing her to use). She prefers openSUSE-10.2 over winXP.

Last weekend she had some problems with HotMail with WinME (and MS-Explorer) so she asked my wife and I to connect to her PC (which is in a different continent) to help her solve her winME problem. So about 10 minutes before the agreed time, I checked to see if I could connect with “vnc”. I did connect, and what did I see?

She was running openSUSE-10.2, playing a game (solitaire).

It sort of proved to me that games are not just for the young folk.

I then took the opportunity to call her on the phone, and quiz her on OS preference, and it is still (1) winME, (2) openSUSE and (3) winXP. I think it is because she learned winME 1st, and I have been teaching her Linux. No one in the family will take the time to show her winXP.

  • elsewhere wrote, On 07/09/2008 06:38 AM:

> Edited your quote for emphasis, and that’s my point. People that play games often assume everyone else does, too.

I don’t, in fact I know more people who don’t play games. It’s a matter of age, actually, and that’s exactly the point. MS is very good at catching users at a very young age. At least here, they make very sure that school computers have Windows on them.
And if you want to attract young users, you need games, period.

Uwe

Thats so true.

What you gonna do when your kid want to play a windows game with his school friends?

I say, everyone of us play a game some times…

On 07/09/2008 lasterror wrote:
> What you gonna do when your kid want to play a windows game with his
> school friends?

My assumption: With a WoW version running on Linux natively, Linux could double its market share. (And no, Blizzard, people will NOT pay for it if they already got a Windows version.)

Uwe

PS:
My son is 5 years old and the games he likes are almost all Windows only. See, it already started <G>

else_where. I found your post interesting, but it makes me want to vent a bit.

For me, the “killer application” is not games, it’s CAD/CAM.

I run an IronCAD

When I have a large complicated model loaded, it can bring my computer to its knees. Therefore performance is critically important to me.

If I want to buy a graphics card that has a driver optimized for workstation OpenGL applications, I have to pay 5 or 6 times more money than the same hardware optimized for games. This pi**** me off.(compare a GeForce 8800GT to a Quadro FX3700. They are the same card except for the drivers and the price)

I have a legal seat of IronCAD, but I don’t have the latest release. If I upgrade to the latest release, It will cost me $1700+.

Now I find out that ironCAD has incorporated HOOPS (pdf) technology into the latest release.

This means that if I want to be able to get the performance gains, I have to move to VISTA!!!

This pi**** me off, for obvious reasons. Friggen Microsoft wont support XP with the latest version of DirectX.

So whats my point? I would like to see “MY” killer app, show up in Linux.

Linux can meet all of my needs for a general purpose desktop, and I will use it for that. I’m going to take a fresh look at CAD on Linux, but it would be difficult to leave my beloved IronCAD behind. I’m not going to buy the upgrade though. VISTA!! puke. :wink:

I couldn’t agree more. My family and friends all know I use Linux. I have used it since 2002 or 2003, and they have known almost as long. Only once have I ever asked one of them if they wanted to try it, because I know what the answer will be: no thanks, it is probably better but I don’t want to spend the time to change. And no wonder; they don’t spend hours every day tinkering with their computers and posting to computer-related forums just for the fun of it. :wink:

The fact is that most people won’t try Linux until Windows has completely failed them. Also, when they are introduced to Linux, they must understand that it is not a replacement for Windows; it is an alternative.

FWIW, the one person I asked was my mother, and recently. She finally got fed up with all of her troubles, and the last straw was MS Office refusing to open her files–but OO would!

I haven’t read this whole thread, but to a couple of posters on this page, with respect:

It is not fair, or logical in any fashion, to blame Linux developers for not being able to support everything in computing; the list is incredibly daunting–no system does. Also, it is ludicrous to blame developers for not supporting all hardware (implied by the increased cost for equal performance) when they are not given the same information Windows developers are, even when they agree to sign a NDA. I know it might not have been the intention of the posters on this page to complain, but sometimes we all do, and it is good to remember such things when doing so…

Also, it is ludicrous to blame developers for not supporting all hardware (implied by the increased cost for equal performance) when they are not given the same information Windows developers are, even when they agree to sign a NDA

I’m not blaming Linux developers for the higher price of workstation graphics cards.

I was really just blowing off a bit of steam, because it torques me off that MS will not support 64 bit XP with the latest version of DirectX. :mad: :slight_smile:

As far as I know, graphics card drivers under linux could be highly optimized for a particular CAD program, provided that the GPU manufacturer provided documentation and cooperation with an open source driver.

I think ATI is currently better about this than nvidia.