LINUTOP: Small PC - Linux Computer - Internet Kiosk
Looks like an interesting application of Linux, powered by an AMD Geode and Flash memory limiting it’s power use to only 8 watt.
Stumbled upon while trying to find out if Geodes were still being actively developed as I kinda expected those to be used as the counter to the Atom.
(For more info on the AMD Geode, see Geode Wiki, in short it’s an energy efficient x86 compatible CPU+some more)
Anyone seen any of these in use?
Sound good - IMHO this is a brilliant idea if you need an instant PC. Why it has Gnome - installed? Is it better power-saver?
Changing the operating system
Linutop comes with an operating system derived from a Xubuntu distribution (2). The system is being updated regularly and you can benefit from the latest developments of the open source community.
However, it is possible to replace this distribution by your own: Mandriva, Debian, even windows CE. Your own distribution can be installed on the internal flash memory or on an external device (USB key or hard drive.
- The latest version of Linutop system contains a Ubuntu 8.04 “Hardy Heron”.
Ubuntu addicts (in any form) I guess, and Kubuntu isn’t exactly the most awesome KDE based distribution out there.
I was wondering more about the choice for VLC while RAM is limited. But then I installed VLC and compared ram/cpu usage to SMPlayer and they’re pretty much identical.
(VLC still failed at the subs of some movies I tried… but that’s a topic for the soapbox ;))
VLC vs SMPlayer
Looks very interesting but is quite pricy for a 500Mhz (which is very little for watching videos) processor and 512MB RAM, don’t you think? 280 EUR and comes with an OS I don’t even want :(.
Gimme SUSE and my interest may increase!
That is ancient, slow and way over priced.
Much better systems available now.
Hi
I have one of these with a 250GB SATA drive, 1GB RAM;
Via Artigo
Running openSUSE 11.1 too 
–
Cheers Malcolm °¿° (Linux Counter #276890)
openSUSE 11.1 x86 Kernel 2.6.27.7-9-default
up 1 day 3:57, 2 users, load average: 4.52, 4.48, 4.37
GPU GeForce 6600 TE/6200 TE - Driver Version: 180.22
That one looks a bit more interesting but unfortunately it’s based in the US if I’m not mistaken. That’ll be a bit too much in price for shipping.
Thanks for the link though
This one peeked my interest because it is not an atom. Not to mention (quoting wikipedia)
While the Atom processor itself is relatively power efficient for an x86 instruction set chip, the chipsets used with it are currently not as power efficient. For example while the N270 chip itself commonly used in netbooks has a maximum TDP of 2.5 W, the Intel Atom platform with the 945GSE Express chipset has a specified maximum TDP of 11.8 W
This geode based system is 8 Watt total.
Geodes and Atoms don’t compete (to my own suprise, as I expected them them to have gained in power a bit since the last time I checked).
The closest thing that AMD has to an Atom are the Amd Athlon 2650e and 3250e, these however are far more powerful then both the geode and atom.
As an overview I’ll put my ascii skills to the test
+-------------------------+
| AMD 2650E | Atom 230 |
+-----+------------+------------+
|CPU | 15.0 | 4.0 |
|CHIP-|780G : 11.4 |945GC: 22.2 |
|SET |SB700:< 1.0 |ICH7 : 3.3 |
+-----+------------|------------|
|Total: 27.4W| 29.5W |
Put the < 1.0 @ the SB700 there cause I couldn’t find it’s exact use, what I did find was “less than 1 watt”.
Performance wise, Toms hardware put a downclocked Athlon (1GHz) up against the Atom and the Atom got outperformed on most benchmarks.
The 2650E has the same architecture and runs at 1.6GHz, that’s a garantueed win on every benchmark.
Graphic cards wise with the mentioned chipsets it’s an Intel GMA950 vs ATI Radeon 3200HD… I’d say the ATI wins that by quite a margin.
(I went quite offtopic and soapbox worthy there)
PS: Yes the 2650e is REALLY hard to find, only found 2 acer laptops based on it, that can’t even be found on their own site.
I’ve seen this one a while ago and liked the idea but always seemed pricey.
My idea was to set them up as thin clients, where the chip speed and low ram would not be an issue. Being silent is perfect.
Can openSUSE be made to run on the chip? I know with the Atom-based Netbooks just about every distro is coming up with a version to install on them but the chip in the Linutop I don’t hear much of. I also don’t know how difficult it is to make a ditro run on different architectures.
It isn’t a difference architecture! Good old x86 and their FAQ states you can install the distribution of your own choice so I assume graphics wise it’s well supported under Linux, which would worry me more 
Much higher resolution then I expected it to be able to.
+----------+---------------------------------------+
|Processor | AMD Geode LX800 (x86) |
|Weight | 580 gr |
|Power | < 8W / 12V - 3,3A |
|AC adapter| 110-240V~ 50/60Hz |
|Size | 14 x 14 x 3.5 cm (5.5x5.5x1.38 in) |
|RAM | 512 MB up to 1GB |
|Storage | 1 GB Flash Memory (Internal) |
|Network | 10/100baseT Ethernet (RJ-45) |
|PXE Boot | Thin client use |
|Audio | 1 in & 2 out 3mm speaker |
|Video | VGA output (SUB-D15) |
|Resolution| 1920x1440 max |
|Extension | 4x USB 2.0 ports |
+----------+---------------------------------------+
So the biggest problem is squeezing whatever OS on the 1GB onboard flash drive, or just run it off an USB stick.
Bit silly come to think of it… 1GB OS with 1GB RAM? 
(Perhaps you were thinking of ARM processors?)
I think I would use my 8GB stick instead, if I have to use a stick. Lintop 2 has an option to install an internal hard drive.
Building one yourself would be interesting as well.
$109.99 - LX800 + Motherboard
$ .43,99 - Case + 250watt powersupply (They don’t sell them much weaker then this haha)
$ .25,99 - 1GB of RAM
$173,97 ← Total
That’s without any form of disk to run from though… so you’ll need an USB stick or something.
Totalprice is a higher then I expected, doesn’t seem the Linutop is overpriced, do get a 1GB disk there after all… and 4 USB instead of 2 on this one, which pretty means that a keyboard+mouse fills it up completely.
Quoting the AMD site:
AMD Geode LX 800@0.9W processor operates at a maximum power of 3.6W (TDP) and 1.8W is typical at 500MHz
Can’t find any numbers on the powerusage of the motherboard, but can’t be -that- high as the graphics card is part of the geode itself.
Can’t help but feel that the case + powersupply should be possible to do cheaper… 250 watt powersupply seems silly considering it wont use even use 5% of that
If you want real cheap, take a look at Norhtec, who are using SoC systems for thin client usage.
fit-pc have neat small boxes to, which are pricier but come with Ubuntu or Gentoo disk partitions, with Debian or openSUSE perfectly installable.
I’d like a nice low wattage box with dual NIC for SOHO server applications, rather than thin client. Currently a new generation of products are coming out, but the Atom is held back by the older Intel chipset.
AMD/ATI seem to be developing entrants to netbook market, with integration for power saving. Via have had a range of stuff, but noone really wants to buy Via (likely due to past chipset problems, poor documentation and lack of cooperation).
This area seems subject to rapid change right now, and will benefit from practical SSD’s to which should offer enough storage for few watts, at a faster speed than notebook drives.
I hear this talk about systems using very little power. This makes me wonder how much power and I using now for my current systems (P3 700MHZ router/firewall/filter and P3 1GHz file server which are always on, then a P4 2.0 GHz desktop and a Pentium M 1.4 GHz laptop).
Are there any charts regarding these?
EDIT:
Too bad they don’t come with openSUSE installed… The Gecko running the Geeko!
You could probably find out if you google the CPU information, I’m however at a loss of how to obtain it under linux… just tried CPU-Z under wine, but as expected… it’s no good
**cat /proc/cpuinfo ** doesn’t list the type of core so that’s pretty useless.
You’re garantueed to be better off replacing your firewall/fileserver by a single more modern system though.
$59.99 - 780G chipset based motherboard
$38.99 - AMD Athlon 64 [b]LE-1640 (Listed wrong on new egg, it’s made using 65nm process, not 90nm)
$17.99 - Single stick of 1GB RAM (One stick takes less power then 2 ;))
$37.99 - 80+ Certified PSU (This is a really important part to keep in mind)
Total of $154.96
That’s very similar to my own setup… though I do have 2 RAM sticks… read later on that one is more power efficient, so if I were to redo it I’d go for one 2GB module instead of 2*1GB like I have now.
Only got one problem with it… can’t get the CPU fan to turn completely off (haha made powersaving… turning fan off), even though it’s enabled in the BIOS to do that while CPU temperature is under 48 degrees… and it is idling at 26 degrees. (I got a foxconn motherboard though, others might actually work properly)
If you decide to purchase something like that, keep in mind though that these new motherboards more of then not come with only 1 PATA port… and a lot of the 780G chipset based motherboards are mini-atx so you need a case that can hold one of those.
It’s quite future resilient as well, as the AMD2+ socket seems to be enjoying a long lifespan…
A ‘decent’ integrated videocard also makes sure you don’t fall out of the boat later on if hardware acceleration is needed for something. (Or maybe it sounds better if I say, this system should be powerful enough to play 1080p movies)
Further tips to save power, don’t keep the CD-ROM player connected once the OS is installed, and read the HDD power saving openSUSE wiki page
There are meters that measure power draw of a system, so sites like Anandtech and Tom’s Hardware do give an idea for power consumption figures. Usually the big consumers are CPU+chipset, and discrete graphics card. CD/DVD drives, floppies and such generally draw a few watts even if idle, so can be worth disconnecting if they’re not used. Some of the older AGP graphics cards actually draw 150-200W, compared to < 35W for the modern low end ATI Radeon HD 4550.
The Geode LX line are not getting developed any further. So effectively AMD are withdrawing from this market. If you look at fit-pc 1.0 dual NIC Linux $195 the box would handle firewall, and file service tasks. It’s going to use much less power than a new general purpose system build.
Those are quite nice, but… “Shipping & Handling $50” holy cow.
Do like
A standard PC working 24/7 will cost $200-$300 a year in electricity bill alone. fit-PC Slim would cost just $12 under the same conditions."
It’s very similar to the lx-800 based suggestion I did earlier (including the only 2 usb ports problem). Price is a bit higher, but it includes a harddisk, so that equals out. It is however compacter and without a uselessly powerful PSU that needs a fan.
So that’s some powersaving there… no fan to power
But I made the more ‘traditional’ suggestion above to dragonbite as I doubt a geode based system would make for a good file server, might lack in power for software raids, but what’s worse… the boards offer one PATA port at best (no SATA at all).
One thought I’ve been getting into is, since it is not a high-traffic network, to try combining the two servers (and more ) into one box.
Thinking of using VMWare’s ESXi (which includes a minimal host), setting up the firewall/routing/filter system as one VM with a dedicated NIC and another VM for a web server and a 3rd for a file server.
The firewall/router/filter doesn’t need much processing power, the file server would take some and the web server would probably take the most but again it only has to handle 2 systems and the most “work” it will do is when I’m mucky-mucking them up (-er, I mean “developing” )
With that concept I would want to set up the Apache and Samba to be pointing to partitions on a second hard drive for all of the files so if the OS or VMs start dying off I can disconnect the 2nd hard drive and move it into another machine and have my files accessible.
Unfortunately that only reduces the electricity usage down a little (2x P3 -> 1x P4).
Thanks for the info on the Floppy and Disk Drives. My router/firewall/filter (Portcullis) still has the drives plugged in but there is no need for them. I could also exchange the hard drive for a USB stick. Be really cool if I could make the logs write on the file server so that’s less IO on it.
I’ve never built a computer myself so it sounds slightly intimidating but fun.
P4’s are notorious for being power hungry beasts, or at very least the ones with a ‘prescott’ core are.
So it might be worth it to take the advice I posted earlier and use that as the base for one system to replace all 3. Costs are probably covered within 1.5 year by lowering the electricity bill.
My server isn’t a router/firewall… although I might look into making it one as my router is driving me utterly insane.
What it does do though is:svn/web/file/print/torrent. It’s nearly always downclocking itself (trough Cool’n’Quiet) to a mere 1000MHz. (Which equals an atom in performance and power use.
Only when the software raid 5 is doing some heavy file moving it might go a little above that (so an atom probably falls short here… though not by much).
While looking up some wattages to make sure I’m not spouting nonsense I came across something interesting btw…
(At the time of writing which is also about the time I bought my servers hardware, 35 watt models were not out yet)
Seems like from information on some Dutch webshops that the AMD Athl64 X2 3800 should be out in 2 days… that’s a dualcore with extremely low power usage and the price is listed as 36,90 euro… so that isn’t too bad either.
So if you’re gonna replace the system if I were you I’d wait just a little bit longer and go for a Athlon 64 x2 3800 + a 780G based motherboard, that’s quite an upgrade when compared to 2 PIII’s and one P4 while lowering power usage by quite a bit.
( If you can find someone who’s not keeping track of how cheap new hardware is nowadays to sell the old hardware to it might be a free upgrade )
Building PC’s is really easy by the way, you might want to watch youtube video’s about it and then attempt it yourself with the help of the motherboard manual. (and always make sure you’re free of static electricty or you’ll end up zapping something valuable)
Hardest part is picking hardware that matches up as there are different types of RAM, CPU sockets etc.
