Let's invade Ubuntu Forums!!!!!

English Open Chat
#1

Okay so OpenSuSE 11.0/11.1 is better than Ubuntu 8.10.
Agreed?
Agreed.
And still Ubuntu has the largest user base and forum community. it is also not ubuntu is necessarily more newbie-friendly than the latest versions of suse. (earlier versions, sure, but not the recent ones)So why do they have more users than us here? It is because almost every newcomer to linux has someone behind them guiding them into linux. someone does your first install for you, or someone tells you about it etc.
And with a large communtiy and userbase, (ubuntu forums is by far the largest one around), help is quick and easy.

it is not that ubuntu has less problems than suse…but it is simply that whatever problem you are having with ubuntu, there is high likelihood that someone else has had the same problem before you, with such a large user base. documentation on the forum is huge. opensuse ha also got amazing docs; but still we are second best (and Linux Mint is catching up fast).

so here is what i suggest.
let us invade their forums!
for example, for every two posts you write here, post once on ubuntu forums luring people onto the ‘greener’ side of life.

cmmon, we all love to hate Novell, but few can argue against the fact that OpenSuSE (not novell’s SLE) is as much a community project as ubuntu.
i am sure people will switch, even if the switch is slow at first.

this is not a war.
it is just trying to assert that green is a more ubiquitous colour in nature than brown.

:slight_smile: :slight_smile: :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue:

#2

what you folks think?

#3

I think this is a (really) bad idea.

Sure openSUSE is better than Ubuntu (I’m sure of that too :P), but… nobody here want that Ubuntu fanboy comes on openSUSE forums to “spread” their brown thing…

I don’t like “fanboys” for lot of reason… I hope openSUSE users are smarter than this, and don’t do the same mistake.

If you want to “invade” Ubuntu’s world, just write a nice, unbiased, complete review of openSUSE. And digg it. Everyone here will digg it too :wink:

#4

I think your proposal is just stupid, no hard feelings. You don’t just go “invade” some Linux forum and try to convert the people there to your distro. The only thing that will come out of such an action is a distro war and flames. This is all that you will get. Further, a lot of Ubuntu people are blinded by it and are know as the biggest trolls on the Internet in regards to Linux and their distro so it will be extremely difficult for you to convince a large enough amount to swtich over that will be enough to justify your effort and actions.

Further, Ubuntu is not popular because it is the best of all distros, but because of the excellent marketing machine that is Canonical. Novell does a poor job at that since they are more focusing on the enterpriese world instead of the home user, its strategy is different than the one deployed by Canonical.

If you have an excellent marketing machine like Canonical, no matter how bad your product might be, it will still sell as hot bread to the largely clueless public.

The userbase that Ubuntu today enjoys is largely because of Canonical’s effort to make it the most popular distro around. Most popular one does not directly imply that it is the best one.

If you go around their forums are try to convert Ubuntu users to openSUSE, you will find yourself after a while exhausted from argumenting with them and your efforts will be in vain. Maybe a few will switch, but the larger userbase will just stick to Ubuntu. This is true for every other distro around. Lets turn around the cards. What if a Ubuntu user came here and tried to convince openSUSE people to switch over to Ubuntu. How many of the loyal users of openSUSE do you think will completely switch? My guess is very few, if none at all.

#5

Okay. So I totally agree that it will start the war of distros etc etc.
And I totally agree, it is not nice if an Ubuntu user comes here. That is why it is not a good idea to infiltrate the entire forums.
But where was ever a harm in having a little bit of fun???
Like cmmmon, i mean you guys took me too seriously!! :wink:
I find it absolutely hilarious when a forum thread goes on and on, page after page, debating which of any two distros is better. It happens on our forum too. It happens everywhere.
It is just really nice to write something innocently controversial (but not scandalous, of course) and watch the fun where everyone joins in. (even if it is against you, it is flattering coz it tells you they actually took you seriously).
I mean I had a hearty laugh, seeing how seriously I was just taken here. :slight_smile:
Calm down…life is long…

#6

All i am saying is, let us add some spice.

#7

And with regards to writing unbiased review, it is not possible for me to not be biased towards opensuse. (i guess in this declaration lies my honesty…rather than a review). and most of the distro ‘reviews’ that are on these blogs, are nothing more than a screenshot guide of the install process and what the default desktop looks like and what apps are included. cmmon! that is no “review”. it tells you nothing more than what the pretty/not-so-pretty installer looks like.
The reviews i really like to read are about various projects undertaken by a certain distro, and the most important question is this- why should i choose this distro?

For example please read these two reviews:
First look: OpenSUSE 11.1 beta 3 very promising

as compared to:
11 Prime Features of openSUSE 11.1 - A Comprehensive Review

you will notice the difference. sadly there are a lot more of the former artcle’s kind found. and i am not well adept to write the latter kind.

#8

> “viperskunk” <viperskunk@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote in
> message news:viperskunk.3j2nnc@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org…
>
> All i am saying is, let us add some spice.

How about we don’t. Linux is about freedom of choice.

If you want to troll a forum, do it at http://www.forumwarz.com/

–
AZC

#9

Inverse golden rule: Do not do to others what you would not want done to you.

Why do you want to engage in such negative behaviour anyway? We should be glad that they are running open software at all. Maybe they will look for something better when they feel like it. Or maybe they are happy with what they have. Isn’t that just fine?

And besides proselyting often has the opposite effect. Remember the fable of the wind, the sun and the man with a hat.

#10

Sure, if you call “fun” being a troll who’s going around on other distro forums trying to convince people to switch for whatever reason… Because this is how they will see and label you, a troll and nothing more. Some will jump right into the discussion, others will see what’s going on and will just not bother… But if you wanna do that, I’m fine with it. I guess everyone has its own definition of “fun”. Like they say: to each his own :slight_smile:

Like cmmmon, i mean you guys took me too seriously!! :wink:
I find it absolutely hilarious when a forum thread goes on and on, page after page, debating which of any two distros is better. It happens on our forum too. It happens everywhere.

And did you see the outcome of such threads? More hatred/disliking and war and a final conclusion that neither of the distros discussed is better that the other. The Ubuntu side will keep arguing Ubuntu is better and the openSUSE side will do the same. And in the end you will get a highly biased “conclusion” about which one is better. A conclusion you shouldn’t even think of trusting.

It is just really nice to write something innocently controversial (but not scandalous, of course) and watch the fun where everyone joins in. (even if it is against you, it is flattering coz it tells you they actually took you seriously).

I don’t think they are taking you seriously. If they did, they will switch over without much arguments. What happens in such discussions is that they are specifically “designed” to let all the fear, anger, doubt, and misinformation come out. It’s like an itch you have but couldn’t scratch it for a long time. As soon as such a thread starts, you finally get the chance of scratching the goddam nasty itch, and you release all the buildup pressure inside :slight_smile:

I mean I had a hearty laugh, seeing how seriously I was just taken here. :slight_smile:
Calm down…life is long…

Actually, on the contrary, life is really really short. It may seem long to you because of the way a human perceives things but compared to other things in the Universe, a human life is just a picosecond, if not less. Also there’s a high degree of uncertainty in life, hence the saying: you never know when and/or from what you will die.

#11

From a user perspective (not as a moderator), based on what I read as being the reasons to “invade” the Ubuntu Forums, I would say this is a really really bad idea. As a moderator, I think it even a worse idea … much worse…

I used to visit the Ubuntu IRC chat channel, mainly to learn about their 'bot. On occasion I would try help the Ubuntu users.

I’ve tried to help many Ubuntu users with their sound on the IRC #alsa channel.

When trying to help users with their technical problems, I use search engines extensively, and often I end up in a Ubuntu forum. I’ve picked up many solutions applicable to openSUSE from a Ubuntu expert on a Ubuntu forum. Yes, I had to wade thru many bad ideas, but the “gems” did shine thru.

From my perspective, Ubuntu has done a lot for Linux as a whole. They have attracted many users to Linux, and they have convinced a number of computer hardware suppliers to include Ubuntu Linux as an OEM product, against a very competitive Microsoft. That speaks volumes there. A side benefit to all Linux distributions is these computer hardware suppliers are slightly more receptively to Linux questions.

If one wishes to visit the Ubuntu forums, to help contribute to Ubuntu development, then I am ALL FOR IT. But if one joins a Ubuntu forum to push openSUSE or bash Ubuntu, then I think it is incredibly silly.

Linux is linux, and the distributions should stick together and support each other. There are better ways of having “a little fun”.

#12

Actually, on the contrary, life is really really short. It may seem long to you because of the way a human perceives things but compared to other things in the Universe, a human life is just a picosecond, if not less. Also there’s a high degree of uncertainty in life, hence the saying: you never know when and/or from what you will die.

Sob, sob!:’( :frowning:

#13

oldcpu,(on a serious note…enough of the ‘fun’ now )
i wholly agree with you, when you say ubuntu has contributed a lot to the popularity of linux. it is a great marketing beast.
however, i have doubts as to the extent of ubuntu’s contributions to linux itself. i mean, the kernel, new technology and all that.
in fact, i don’t remember where, but i am sure you have come across the same article, which discussed how much (percentage) contribution to the kernel came from ubuntu. while red hat and novell led the table with more than 50% patches, ubuntu was less than 1%. i mean, while other distros seem to be doing all the hard work, testing, trying out new stuff, ubuntu just seems to be reaping the benefits of other distros’ efforts. (they haven’t even included openoffice 3 in Ibex, while fedora and opensuse are testing it out).

i mean, while fedora and opensuse seem to be doing the hard work, testing, and being brave trying out new stuff all the time and all that. but ubuntu, to the normal eye, seems to just be reaping the benefits of other distros’ efforts. they just include the latest stable package. (they haven’t even included openoffice 3 in Ibex…while fedora dn opensuse are testing it out). i mean it is unfair to distros like opensuse and fedora. on the ubuntu forums, these distros are bad-mouthed all time…calling fedora and opensuse unstable, (because they are too bleeding edge etc.) and ubuntu reaps the rewards of having a user base that believes it to be a “more stable” and “user friendly” distro.
i mean, ubuntu, all said and done is jazzed up debian. i have an immense amount of respect for (if one can have an immense amount of respect for a distro) Debian. but anyone can jazz up a distro. debian’s contribution to linux per se as compared to ubuntu’s is huge.

what has ubuntu done except amass a huge user base (and its subsequent benefits as seen in the forum documentation etc.)through marketing initiatives of Canonical?
i understand, that even this gathering of people is a huge contribution to linux in the market.
but i am talking about linux per se here.

maybe unintentionally, but you have touched upon an issue here, that i have had a strong feeling toward for some time now. and i thank you for it.

#14

i mean, it is unfair to distros like opensuse and fedora.
on ubuntu forums these distros get bad-mouthed all the time (calling them too unstable in their efforts to be too bleeding edge), while ubuntu enjoys the increase in user base based on their assumption that ubuntu is necessarily stable.
i mean, where does this ‘stability’ come from? from someone’s testing, somewhere, right?
who does that for ubuntu? certainly not ubuntu?
and it just seems to be reaping the rewards.

i apologise if i have touched a nerve here, but oldcpu, you certainly tickled mine.

#15

Off Topic :

Welcome to our newest member, SuSe_killed_the_buntu

rotfl!

#16

Dude. I’m already doing my part.

If you haven’t noticed me (which is no surprise) I often provide the Ubuntu point of view in the openSUSE forums and I provide the openSUSE point of view in the Ubuntu forums. I’m still just getting into the Fedora forums :wink:

OpenSUSE is a good distribution, but it is not for everybody. That is why Ubuntu is enjoying such popularity.

One area that gets people hung up on between openSUSE and Ubuntu is that openSUSE usually refers to the installation DVD which includes picking your packages during installation. Ubuntu refers to the LiveCD which when installed drops you into a working installation with a smart collection of (usually) popular applications (OpenOffice, Gimp, Firefox, etc.).

For the newbie or people that don’t want to think about it, the LiveCD is preferred because unless you are familiar with what you want, the idea of picking what applications to install sounds daunting even with the package groups. And if you are new to Linux in general you are already fighting to understand what Pidgin and Kopete are! Let alone what is the difference between Koffice, OpenOffice and GnomeOffice and Abiword and Gnumeric! Won’t even go into the media players or proprietary items like Flash and Acrobat :wink:

Yes, openSUSE has a Live CD, but it isn’t promoted as well. Most people associate installing SUSE, Fedora and Red Hat/CentOS as needing a DVD.

This isn’t a bad thing though. Like I said it is daunting for the newbie, but for somebody experienced or whats to “do more” then this installation method is much preferred. Also for people without internet access or slow (dial-up) internet access so the entire repositories are available right there!

“Invading the forums” will do nothing any better than when Mark Shuttleworth sent the letter to the SUSE developers when the Novell-Microsoft deal was announced.

Speaking of which, the hardest thing to argue about with Ubuntu users is the Microsoft-Novell deal. If anybody has some advice on debunking the perception of it being all negative, please PM me so I have some ammo. The EULA has been my last sticky point to try and defeat.

#17

Viper, you better take advice of majority of people that responded to you and drop the issue. Also, I recommend you re-read the post of Oldcpu. Wisdom is gained by expirience :slight_smile:

However, if you still have in mind that you should convert some 'buntu user to openSUSE, I suggest you do ‘invade’ ubuntu forums and IRC channels and try to help as many people as you can in solving problems.
Linux is Linux and things are very very very similar.

Keep in mind that we use openSUSE because we explored distros and happened that WE LIKED openSUSE, not because someone convinced us, converted us, etc.

#18

Fail

#19

FYI, It’s well known that Novell could not market themselves
out of a paper bag.

#20

On Tue, 2008-11-18 at 11:46 +0000, viperskunk wrote:
> Okay so OpenSuSE 11.0/11.1 is better than Ubuntu 8.10.
> Agreed?
> Agreed.

I won’t say that. There are some fundamental differences
between Ubuntu and openSUSE. Some of it isn’t all that bad.

I’d rather live with my Ubuntu friends than try to “bug” them
into moving to openSUSE. I do have friends that went from
Ubuntu to openSUSE, but possibly MORE that went from openSUSE
to Ubuntu.

…
> so here is what i suggest.
> let us invade their forums!

Uh… no…

…
> i am sure people will switch, even if the switch is slow at first.

If they get frustrated with Ubuntu (and there’s plenty that CAN
frustrate them), then let’s let them try openSUSE on their own
and make up their own mind.

>
> this is not a war.

No… so let’s not try to make it into one… ok?

> it is just trying to assert that green is a more ubiquitous colour in
> nature than brown.

I like brown… and sometimes I get sick of the green… :slight_smile: