KMail HTML email always removes empty lines when viewed in MS Exchange Outlook

When sending an HTML formatted email with KMail and viewing this email on an MS Exchange Outlook client, all the empty lines are removed. This appears to be a known issue (KMail & HTML. • KDE Community Forums), but I was hoping anyone here knows a workaround for this…?

This is REALLY annoying when using KMail in a business setting, since emails look embarrassing on a customer’s email client (which is in 99% of the cases Outlook, I’m afraid).

Any workarounds?

Just guessing, but could it have something to do with the way linux/unix defines end of line (EOL), which is different from Windows carriage return + line feed (CR+LF)? Is there a setting in kmail to use windows-type EOL, like there is in kwrite, for example?

Also, does this happens if you use thunderbird?

No - it appears to be very KMail specific - it’s an annoying bug that only crops up with HTML formatted messages, but ONLY if viewed in MS Exchange.

And no, Thunderbird does not suffer from this problem.

Then it’s difficult to say if it’s a kmail or exchange issue. I wouldn’t discard the EOL so fast, perhaps exchange expects to connect only other windows machines (where CR+LF is the standard) while outlook is more “multilingual”.

I suppose you have your reasons not to use thunderbird.

By the way, I’m not familiar with exchange, never having the need to use it. In the couple companies I had to network collaboratively there was always file access to the work directories and/or a browser-based sharing and e-mail client.

Well - it’s a known bug in the KDE bug tracker - it has to do with setting a paragraph element to size=0 in HTML formatted emails. But that’s not the point. I merely was hoping to run into somebody that knew a workaround for the problem, 'cause this bug has been in the system since the KDE 3 days, so I have little faith it will be fixed.

By the way, I’m not familiar with exchange, never having the need to use it. In the couple companies I had to network collaboratively there was always file access to the work directories and/or a browser-based sharing and e-mail client.

I’m not following. I am only talking about when someone receives an email from me and since in 99% of the cases they use Outlook, my email looks really bad if I send it formatted as HTML. I don’t use Exchange at all myself. It’s my customers that complain that my emails look - well - crappy in their Outlook.

On 2010-12-09 04:06, twelveeighty wrote:

> Well - it’s a known bug in the KDE bug tracker - it has to do with
> setting a paragraph element to size=0 in HTML formatted emails. But
> that’s not the point. I merely was hoping to run into somebody that knew
> a workaround for the problem, 'cause this bug has been in the system
> since the KDE 3 days, so I have little faith it will be fixed.

AFAIK, composing html emails in kmail is not really supported. So much so,
that there was an initiative, I don’t know how serious, to collect the
necesary money to add that support as a paid feature, requested and ignored
for years by the kmail devs.

Seriously, for html email use thunderbird.

If you set up dovecot as a local imap server on your computer, you can
store the mail there, and use kmail and thunderbird for email, choosing one
or the other as you need.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.2 x86_64 “Emerald” at Telcontar)

On Thu, 09 Dec 2010 16:33:06 +0530, Carlos E. R.
<robin_listas@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:

> Seriously, for html email use thunderbird.

i understand the need to read HTML email, but not why it should be
necessary to send them. or is it that business contacts won’t take you
seriously unless you also send out styled and formatted stuff?


phani.

On 2010-12-09 12:22, phanisvara wrote:
> On Thu, 09 Dec 2010 16:33:06 +0530, Carlos E. R.
> <robin_listas@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
>
>> Seriously, for html email use thunderbird.
>
> i understand the need to read HTML email, but not why it should be
> necessary to send them. or is it that business contacts won’t take you
> seriously unless you also send out styled and formatted stuff?

I have to send tables with numbers. Nothing complex, just tabulated data.
Sometimes I have to add images in context. This can be sent easily as html.
Yes, also as an attached file, pdf, word(!), etc. But html exists, it is an
standard (abused), so why not use it?

The people that dislike it, say that it has dangers, well, then develop
another format for emails that allows formatting, and get it widely
supported in all operating systems.

Ghosh! This is a forum. Forums are more popular than nntp or mail lists.
They are html, you can attach photos, fonts, whatever. People like and use
it, I see no complains. Why on earth can’t email have those nice features, too?


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.2 x86_64 “Emerald” at Telcontar)

This is a very interesting concept - since I really like KMail as a mail reader, it just sucks for composing html email. And yes, there are some cases where you have to use HTML in KMail, even for simple stuff like sending a note with a hyperlink in it: if you send that in plain text and link is too long, it gets word-wrapped and the link is broken. If you use HTML, it works properly, since it creates an <a> element for it.

When using dovecot - do you pull all the incoming mail into dovecot first and then you connect kmail and thunderbird to dovecot?

On Thu, 09 Dec 2010 17:20:06 +0530, Carlos E. R.
<robin_listas@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:

> I have to send tables with numbers. Nothing complex, just tabulated data.
> Sometimes I have to add images in context. This can be sent easily as
> html.

true; these things happen rarely to me, so i use attached documents. if
it’s more frequent, i see that HTML would be useful.

> Yes, also as an attached file, pdf, word(!), etc. But html exists, it is
> an
> standard (abused), so why not use it?

> The people that dislike it, say that it has dangers, well, then develop
> another format for emails that allows formatting, and get it widely
> supported in all operating systems.

personally i’m not so much concerned with inherent dangers–for myself.
others who click on anything that looks nice or has ‘sex’ in it are the
ones who use HTML mail anyway; no point trying to convince them of
txt-only email.

> Ghosh! This is a forum.

not for me, since i discovered the NNTP gateway :slight_smile:

> Forums are more popular than nntp or mail lists.
> They are html, you can attach photos, fonts, whatever. People like and
> use it, I see no complains. Why on earth can’t email have those nice
> features, too?

it obviously can; i guess it’s a mind-thing: in my mind email==text.
perhaps i’ll have to be a bit more open-minded in these things…


phani.

On 2010-12-09 17:04, phanisvara wrote:
> On Thu, 09 Dec 2010 17:20:06 +0530, Carlos E. R. <> wrote:

> it obviously can; i guess it’s a mind-thing: in my mind email==text.
> perhaps i’ll have to be a bit more open-minded in these things…

Me too. I also use the forum via nntp.
But sometimes I make exceptions. :slight_smile:


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.2 x86_64 “Emerald” at Telcontar)

On 2010-12-09 16:36, twelveeighty wrote:
>
> robin_listas;2263802 Wrote:

(local imap)

> This is a very interesting concept - since I really like KMail as a
> mail reader, it just sucks for composing html email. And yes, there are
> some cases where you have to use HTML in KMail, even for simple stuff
> like sending a note with a hyperlink in it: if you send that in plain
> text and link is too long, it gets word-wrapped and the link is broken.
> If you use HTML, it works properly, since it creates an <a> element for
> it.

I have this problem here.
I use the forum via the NNTP gateway. It is plain text only (AFAIK), and
posting code without linewrapping is a pain, sometimes it does not work.

Or links are not recognized as links and the blame me :-}

> When using dovecot - do you pull all the incoming mail into dovecot
> first and then you connect kmail and thunderbird to dovecot?

My method, which is not the only one, is as you describe. I pull the email
with fetchmail, distribute it locally into folders, with spam filtering in
the way, and dovecot serves it to thunderbird or whatever I want. Of
course, Thunderbird can also look for email at the ISP, via imap; pop3
accounts I disable.

It would also be possible to fetch the email with Th or Kmail, and use its
filtering system to distribute that email to folders served by dovecot -
remember that imap is R/W.

My setup is:

fetchmail
|
postfix <–> amavis-new
|
procmail <–> spamd <–> spamc
|
|
local storage

Dovecot reads the folders in that local storage, and serves it locally
(thunderbird, alpine), or via local network to laptop.

I wrote the details of the dovecot part here:

Newsgroups: opensuse.org.help.applications
Subject: Re: Need a mail program…
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 21:32:20 GMT


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.2 x86_64 “Emerald” at Telcontar)

Thanks for the description - it’s an interesting concept. I may try this out over the Xmas holidays here.

On 2010-12-10 05:36, twelveeighty wrote:

> Thanks for the description - it’s an interesting concept. I may try
> this out over the Xmas holidays here.

It is indeed. I set it up recently, and I’m glad I did.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.2 x86_64 “Emerald” at Telcontar)

On 2010-12-09, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
> On 2010-12-09 12:22, phanisvara wrote:
>> i understand the need to read HTML email, but not why it should be
>> necessary to send them. or is it that business contacts won’t take you
>> seriously unless you also send out styled and formatted stuff?
>
> I have to send tables with numbers. Nothing complex, just tabulated data.
> Sometimes I have to add images in context. This can be sent easily as html.
> Yes, also as an attached file, pdf, word(!), etc. But html exists, it is an
> standard (abused), so why not use it?
>
> The people that dislike it, say that it has dangers, well, then develop
> another format for emails that allows formatting, and get it widely
> supported in all operating systems.

I don’t consider it dangerous, but I do see it as a crappy format for the
creation of formatted documents. Not that I do much of those, but when I do,
I want the document to have a fixed and relyable layout. Html can be
rendered differently in different browsers.
Another objection is that such a document is not a document, but a
collection of elements (images in jpg files, for one). Your destination has
to copy-paste the document to recover as anything but a mail.

I’d do a PDF in attachment. Reliable layout, one file, only 1 viewer needed.

> Ghosh! This is a forum. Forums are more popular than nntp or mail lists.
> They are html, you can attach photos, fonts, whatever. People like and use
> it, I see no complains. Why on earth can’t email have those nice features, too?
People like it, because they want to do anything and everything with a
browser. That’s the MS way of doing things, and the ‘enrichment’ of that
tool leeds to opening the doors to all kind of nasty.
This ‘forum’ is also read and written by lots of people in NNTP, without
much problems.


When in doubt, use brute force.
– Ken Thompson