Hi all,
I’m new to openSUSE and have a question regarding software installation. Apper and the Software manager/online update in YaST seem like two means to the same end. Is one option better to use than the other or, in debian terms (where I’m from), is this more like a software manager vs. synaptic type of thing?
Regards,
nak
Behind the scenes, Apper and Yast both use “zypper”. So it’s a difference of GUI front end.
Many folk are unhappy with Apper, which seems to behave weirdly at times. However, it does (I think) provide a notifier that shows up in the tray when there are updates.
If you are using software from the packman repos, then that will show up in Apper, but won’t be picked up by Yast online update, though there are ways of still getting to it with Yast.
The big issue with Apper, is that it occasionally decides to refresh its database very slowly, and it locks Yast out for the duration.
Apper has a couple of advantages: It provides a notifier of new updates from the system tray, a couple of clicks and you can install them without needing to enter the root password. Be awrare that it will include updates from all enabled repos. You can of course have it just as a desktop notifier and use one of the following:
YaST Online Update only installs updates/patches from the distributions Update repo(s) and no additional repos.
YaST provides the most information about each package in one single Package Manager. If you want to learn about packages and their dependencies across repos, on the job, use it!
I use all of them, and sometimes even zypper at the commandline.
As so many things in the Linux world, there is more then one product doing (more or less) the same thing.
YaST is the system management tool of openSUSE and one of it’s areas is of course Software Management. YaST is for many people an important reason to use openSUSE. And when you use openSUSE because of YaST, why shouldn’t you use YaST? And when you use YaST, why shouldn’t you use it for Software management?
Apper is working with PackageKit. And PakageKit is something that tries to hide underlying Softwarte Management of different Linux flavors from the end-user. It is a GUI wrapper around the sytem magement library. Like YaST Software Management is a GUI wrapper and like zypper is a CLI wrapper for the same.
Apper is in so far special that the applet checks in regular intervals if there are newer version of a package in a repository. And it informs an end-user using he GUI of that. Years ago there was something similar that worked with YaST.
Hope this helps a little in understanding. After all it is you that should decide what to use.
For myself, I haven’t even installed PackageKit (nor Apper), but I am an old-fashioned grumbler.
How many? Weirdly for you! So you don’t use it as said at the release of 12.2, now on the verge of 12.3 and I guess you still don’t use it, but that qualifies you to continue with that line?
I can honestly say, having installed just about every update with Apper on 12.2 since its release, there was no weird behaviour after the initial fixes. So far so good on 12.3 RC’s. 
Oh yes, and the big issue with YaST is that it blocks Apper from notification, but either way the solution is to quit and wait for the other to complete, i.e. patience required.
On 03/13/2013 02:06 PM, 0xnak wrote:
> is this more like a software
> manager vs. synaptic type of thing?
never having had the pleasure of running Debian i can’t answer that
way, but for openSUSE i prefer to disable apper (try a right click on
the icon and . . .)
and, then i use YaST Online Update occasionally to install security
patches and the big bug fixes…i can’t define occasionally here,
some say weekly, i always do it daily…
some people leave apper functioning but never (EVER!) give it
permission to actually install anything–that way you have a program
watching to see if there are patches to install and if there are
packages then it waves the Let-me-install-stuff flag… (personally i
just prefer it OFF–actually i uninstall apper with YaST Software
Manager)
or, with apper off you can install the patches with “zypper patch” at
the command line of a root powered terminal (see man zypper)…
dd
–
dd
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I am brand new to openSUSE, but have spent lots of time on Debian, so I am most comfortable right now using zypper on the Konsole to update, and yast -software management module to add and remove software. I have deleted the packagekit and apper packages entirely from 12.3.
That’s just a load of old opinionated rubbish, and FUD spreading as always.
Apper is a update notifier. YaST is a package management tool.+ntp config manger+boot manager+network settings manager +mail server settings etc …too long a list
On 03/13/2013 05:56 PM, consused wrote:
> That’s just a load of old opinionated rubbish, and FUD spreading as
> always.
i clearly used words like “personally” and “i just prefer” so, what
is your problem??
just because you don’t like my opinion you wanna call it rubbish and
FUD! booooohoo
there are LOTs of folks with the same opinionated rubbish and FUD
when it comes to apper…
it is not for me–in my opinion it is still rubbish and it is easier
to avoid than to not!
and anytime someone asks i will give my opinion on that, which is as
valid as your opinion!
so you give your opinion and i will NOT attack it, and ask from you
the same courtesy.
–
dd
there are LOTs of folks with the same opinionated rubbish and FUD
when it comes to apper…
I’m one of them - Apper used to give me lots of updates daily, often times for the same things. It was too a big pain in the patootie, so I use Yast only. I don’t even care if it’s been fixed, I don’t want it. But that’s why Linux is my choice for an OS - I can choose what I want to use. But that’s just my opinion, not everyone’s…
It doesn’t make ordering users, in the manner of some old headmaster, e.g “some people leave apper functioning but never (EVER!) give it permission to actually install anything” acceptable. Your ranting and SHOUTING, sounds more like a protest march against a product that certain developers worked hard to improve for good reason, and succeeded.
You won’t have noticed, but on 12.2 and 12.3, when a user tries to play a particularly common audio file (not MP3) in Amarok say, requiring codecs, and it requires packages to be installed, the distro now completes the task on behalf of the user without further ado, just like other distros. That is probably apper/packagekit doing the heavy lifting on this distro.
there are LOTs of folks with the same opinionated rubbish and FUD
when it comes to apper…
That doesn’t make it right. It just sounds like FUD based on other people’s opinions, or what is it based on? No, I don’t respect that, especially as you don’t use it anyway.
and anytime someone asks i will give my opinion on that, which is as valid as your opinion!
I’ll look forward to that then. At least my opinion is based on some real experience over many months of using it successfully on a test system, where it gets a higher exposure to potential issues and misuse.
You didn’t have to have them daily, you can change the frequency to weekly, monthly, or never. I never saw any duplicate updates, unless they were genuinely yet another update for the same package having installed the previous one. I like to get the security updates in asap, and Apper reminds me, so I can concentrate elsewhere.
If you have a large number of repos enabled, Apper/PackageKit covers them all but I would like to see that independently configurable.
Apper is in so far special that the applet checks in regular intervals if there are newer version of a package in a repository. And it informs an end-user using he GUI of that. Years ago there was something similar that worked with YaST.
Could that something have been a bash script, entered as a cron daily job?
I like checking manually, but if I wanted to do it Í’d look up the commands to do something like
No it was a bespoke notifier/updater for the system tray that interfaced to libzypp, eventually broke, and had no openSUSEmaintainer. Next up, KDE had one called Ksynaptic (maybe) which didn’t work properly and preceded Apper. Apper in its present form has been the best, and most reliable certainly for 12.2.
Update Management
Listing Needed Patches
zypper list-patches or zypper lp
Applying Patches
zypper patch
Listing All Patches
zypper patches
Checking Patches
zypper patch-check or zypper pchk
Getting Information About Patches
zypper patch-info
zypper info -t patch
Packages Updates
zypper list-updates or zypper lu
zypper update or zypper up
bookmark ,print flyers
sources:-
https://en.opensuse.org/images/1/17/Zypper-cheat-sheet-1.pdf
https://en.opensuse.org/images/3/30/Zypper-cheat-sheet-2.pdf
https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Zypper_usage
On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:56:01 +0000, consused wrote:
> dd;2534413 Wrote:
>>
>> some people leave apper functioning but never (EVER!) give it
>> permission to actually install anything–that way you have a program
>> watching to see if there are patches to install and if there are
>> packages then it waves the Let-me-install-stuff flag… (personally i
>> just prefer it OFF
> That’s just a load of old opinionated rubbish, and FUD spreading as
> always.
It’s been my experience that apper doesn’t work as well as zypper for
updates. I end up with package resolution conflicts with apper (for
example), but not with zypper.
People have reported problems with apper for quite some time - if it’s
now fixed, that’s great, but I don’t think it’s necessary to respond in
this manner.
Personally, I wish the project would settle on one update app, rather
than having three (YOU, apper, zypper). That’s a recipe for problems.
Jim
–
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C
On 03/14/2013 11:42 AM, Jim Henderson pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:56:01 +0000, consused wrote:
>
>> dd;2534413 Wrote:
>>> some people leave apper functioning but never (EVER!) give it
>>> permission to actually install anything–that way you have a program
>>> watching to see if there are patches to install and if there are
>>> packages then it waves the Let-me-install-stuff flag… (personally i
>>> just prefer it OFF
>> That’s just a load of old opinionated rubbish, and FUD spreading as
>> always.
> It’s been my experience that apper doesn’t work as well as zypper for
> updates. I end up with package resolution conflicts with apper (for
> example), but not with zypper.
>
> People have reported problems with apper for quite some time - if it’s
> now fixed, that’s great, but I don’t think it’s necessary to respond in
> this manner.
>
> Personally, I wish the project would settle on one update app, rather
> than having three (YOU, apper, zypper). That’s a recipe for problems.
>
> Jim
>
YaST (YOU and Package Management) will not go away and zypper is the cli
version and will not go away. My opinion, apper should be nothing more
then a notifier that package updates are available and NOT used to do
updates.
Ken
On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 16:04:12 +0000, Ken Schneider wrote:
> YaST (YOU and Package Management) will not go away and zypper is the cli
> version and will not go away. My opinion, apper should be nothing more
> then a notifier that package updates are available and NOT used to do
> updates.
The good thing is that YaST and zypper work off the same database files
now AIUI, so that solves part of the problem. I agree that apper should
probably be a notification application/applet and nothing more.
Jim
–
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C
On 03/14/2013 05:04 PM, Ken Schneider wrote:
> My opinion, apper should be nothing more then a notifier that package
> updates are available and NOT used to do updates.
+1
imo the idea behind apper is wonderful for those distro who have
nothing as cool as zypper or YOU to stay current…but here, for me,
it is just in my way…if others wanna use it to install then let
apper be default installed to only signal updates waiting, and
those who want it to do what it does on the YaST/zypper deficient
distros flip the switch from ‘signal only’ to something ‘get’er done’.
–
dd