KDE 4.6 Konqueror embedded text editor (only viewer now)

i recently updated a machine from 4.5 to 4.6 Factory and the Embedded Text Editor function for editing text files inside Konqueror seems to be broken (viewing file is fine, but no editing). Doing research i found that it had been reported, but ignored as an “opensuse problem”:

Bug 259338 - I cannot edit text files when I preview them in konqueror by using “Embedded Advanced Text Editor” which is not a case in 4.5

seems like i remember that it was a kate plugin or katepart functionality, but others would know more.

it was apparently reported in the RC days and disregarded, perhaps someone has more info about it?

it doesn’t seem to be a config file problem since a new user is in the same boat.

for me it is oft-used and would be sorely missed.

Also - select and right click > copy
No longer works

On Thu, 03 Mar 2011 09:36:01 +0530, j xavier
<j_xavier@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:

>
> i recently updated a machine from 4.5 to 4.6 Factory and the Embedded
> Text Editor function for editing text files inside Konqueror seems to be
> broken (viewing file is fine, but no editing). Doing research i found
> that it had been reported, but ignored as an “opensuse problem”:
>
> ‘Bug 259338 - I cannot edit text files when I preview them in konqueror
> by using “Embedded Advanced Text Editor” which is not a case in 4.5’
> (http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=259338)
>
> seems like i remember that it was a kate plugin or katepart
> functionality, but others would know more.
>
> it was apparently reported in the RC days and disregarded, perhaps
> someone has more info about it?
>
> it doesn’t seem to be a config file problem since a new user is in the
> same boat.
>
> for me it is oft-used and would be sorely missed.
>

same thing here, i find this really annoying. i commented on that bug
report, but at first it was said it’s an openSUSE-only thing, while later,
if i remember correctly, a gentoo user chimed in, saying it happened to
him, too.

i’m surprised that, apparently, so few people use the embedded text viewer
with it’s editing feature; i found this really useful. somewhere i read
it’s supposed to be caused by config. options, but i couldn’t find any way
to make it work again. no idea what to do…


phani.

phanisvara wrote:

> On Thu, 03 Mar 2011 09:36:01 +0530, j xavier
> <j_xavier@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> i recently updated a machine from 4.5 to 4.6 Factory and the Embedded
>> Text Editor function for editing text files inside Konqueror seems to be
>> broken (viewing file is fine, but no editing). Doing research i found
>> that it had been reported, but ignored as an “opensuse problem”:
>>
>> ‘Bug 259338 - I cannot edit text files when I preview them in konqueror
>> by using “Embedded Advanced Text Editor” which is not a case in 4.5’
>> (http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=259338)
>>
>> seems like i remember that it was a kate plugin or katepart
>> functionality, but others would know more.
>>
>> it was apparently reported in the RC days and disregarded, perhaps
>> someone has more info about it?
>>
>> it doesn’t seem to be a config file problem since a new user is in the
>> same boat.
>>
>> for me it is oft-used and would be sorely missed.
>>
>
> same thing here, i find this really annoying. i commented on that bug
> report, but at first it was said it’s an openSUSE-only thing, while later,
> if i remember correctly, a gentoo user chimed in, saying it happened to
> him, too.
>
> i’m surprised that, apparently, so few people use the embedded text viewer
> with it’s editing feature; i found this really useful. somewhere i read
> it’s supposed to be caused by config. options, but i couldn’t find any way
> to make it work again. no idea what to do…

And here I thought I was the only one with this issue - it bit me with the
11.4 RC so I went back and checked 11.3 w/KDE4.5. Same bug.


Will Honea

conclusion is, after annoying as many people as i dare,

there was a long standing bug repaired which removed the edit capabilities, and the edit capabilities were never “intended” to be present… hence, it was a good thing, konqueror is more “bug-free”.

such goes the party line.

somehow, i can’t see konqueror as “better” now, the code might be better, but it is less useful. I had changed the file association in konqueror to view text files with the embedded editor so quick edits were a snap.

i guess i’m in the minority.(or maybe i just don’t know the right person to blackmail)

j xavier wrote:

>
> conclusion is, after annoying as many people as i dare,
>
> there was a long standing bug repaired which removed the edit
> capabilities, and the edit capabilities were never “intended” to be
> present… hence, it was a good thing, konqueror is more “bug-free”.
>
> such goes the party line.
>
> somehow, i can’t see konqueror as “better” now, the code might be
> better, but it is less useful. I had changed the file association in
> konqueror to view text files with the embedded editor so quick edits
> were a snap.
>
> i guess i’m in the minority.(or maybe i just don’t know the right
> person to blackmail)

If you are saying they fixed what wasn’t broken, you get my vote! I used
that a edit feature a lot!


Will Honea

On Sun, 06 Mar 2011 11:06:03 +0530, j xavier
<j_xavier@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:

>
> conclusion is, after annoying as many people as i dare,
>
> there was a long standing bug repaired which removed the edit
> capabilities, and the edit capabilities were never “intended” to be
> present… hence, it was a good thing, konqueror is more “bug-free”.
>
> such goes the party line.
>
> somehow, i can’t see konqueror as “better” now, the code might be
> better, but it is less useful. I had changed the file association in
> konqueror to view text files with the embedded editor so quick edits
> were a snap.
>
> i guess i’m in the minority.(or maybe i just don’t know the right
> person to blackmail)
>

i’ve seen this argument too, on the KDE bug tracker, but only mentioned by
a few people and never confirmed by any ‘official’ ones. it sounds very
strange, since the menu says “embedded advanced text editor,” not
“…viewer.” in the same bug thread i saw others (whom i didn’t recognize)
saying that the embedded editor was working for them, and it was an
openSUSE thing. i don’t have that bug thread handy right now and don’t
have time to search for it; i think there’s several bugs re. this. not
sure if all of them are marked duplicates…in any case, it didn’t seem
like a clear-cut reply. the only reply i got on the kde mailing list was
that it was working (for the guy who replied), and nobody else chimed in.
strange…


phani.

yes there was a bug report way back in Dec during development releases:

Bug 259338 - I cannot edit text files when I preview them in konqueror by using “Embedded Advanced Text Editor” which is not a case in 4.5

my inquiries on irc.freenode with kde staffers indicate that Comment#1 is correct and it is a dead issue. Nobody feels a need to pursue any solution, now it’s “fixed” the way they intended.

they fixed a bug nobody complained about … my favorite scenario was evaluating scripts, tab with the script file open in the editor, tab with the target folder of the output of the script and the embedded terminal… all in konqueror… run the script, edit if needed, run it again, etc.

i guess the vi input mode listed is a tease, someone somewhere is laughing.

what bothers me the most is someone somewhere actually thinks this was a good thing.

On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 13:06:01 +0530, j xavier
<j_xavier@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:

> …
>they fixed a bug nobody complained about … my favorite scenario
> was evaluating scripts, tab with the script file open in the editor, tab
> with the target folder of the output of the script and the embedded
> terminal… all in konqueror… run the script, edit if needed, run it
> again, etc.
>
> i guess the vi input mode listed is a tease, someone somewhere is
> laughing.
>
> what bothers me the most is someone somewhere actually thinks this was
> a good thing.
>

-1 :frowning:


phani.

Just to confirm that in 4.6 release the same bug is present. This functionality has been working in many releases. I used it alot. Now it will be a slow editor loading and yet another window cluttering my screen. This is so handy incombination with split screen. I wish I hadn’t upgraded! >:(

Doing research i found that it had been reported, but ignored as an “opensuse problem”:

Why don’t you report it in the OpenSuse bug tracker? Since thiis apparently Suse related, let their developers fight over it. And the more publicity the better.

On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 18:06:02 +0530, comunica2
<comunica2@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:

>
>> Doing research i found that it had been reported, but ignored as an
>> “opensuse problem”:
>
> Why don’t you report it in the OpenSuse bug tracker? Since thiis
> apparently Suse related, let their developers fight over it. And the
> more publicity the better.
>

from the KDE bug tracker ( https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=259338 ):


Konqueror the entire KDE3 days was only able to preview, not edit. This
was by
intention. In KDE4 editing worked only due to a bug, as mentioned in
comment
#1.

If you want this feature, please discuss it at kde-core-devel@kde.org,
since
it’s a major change in the KDE Desktop experience. So I close this bug for
now.


phani.

i still have yet to hear a logical reason that explains why it was removed, it made auto-backups, there was no chanced of accidentally doing something that could not be recovered.

the only explanation seems to be that it was not “intended”.

it’s rare to actually create something useful by accident, and pointedly insensitive to ignore the userbase.

for everyone it was perceived as a new KDE4 “feature” for Konqueror, and well liked.

apparently… “wait, wait, wait… this is useful” does not trump guys with blinders on.

On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 23:06:02 +0530, j xavier
<j_xavier@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:

>
> i still have yet to hear a logical reason that explains why it was
> removed, it made auto-backups, there was no chanced of accidentally
> doing something that could not be recovered.
>
> the only explanation seems to be that it was not “intended”.
>
> it’s rare to actually create something useful by accident, and
> pointedly insensitive to ignore the userbase.
>
> for everyone it was perceived as a new KDE4 “feature” for Konqueror,
> and well liked.
>
> apparently… “wait, wait, wait… this is useful” does not trump guys
> with blinders on.
>

i also can’t see any reason to remove the feature, even if it’s
introduction was unintentional, side effect of some bug, apparently.
moreover, the thing is still called “Embedded Advanced Text Editor,” not
“~Viewer,” even in KDE 4.7 (unstable). apparently someone in the
development process thought of it as a feature, too.

the only reason i can remember to remove it is that it was part of a bug,
not planned, and including a new feature would have to be discussed among
whoever KDE considers important enough. (wouldn’t surprise me if there’s
some german influence behind that – i was born in germany too, btw –
following the rules, never mind if it makes sense.)


phani.

maybe the ending irony is that fixing this “bug” (i still hate to refer to it that way), actually created another.

the vi input mode listed in settings and other places is totally superfluous.

On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 12:06:01 +0530, j xavier
<j_xavier@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:

>
> maybe the ending irony is that fixing this “bug” (i still hate to refer
> to it that way), actually created another.
>
> the vi input mode listed in settings and other places is totally
> superfluous.
>

from a kde mailing list that was just cited in bugzilla
( http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-core-devel&m=130321301024431&w=2 ):


On Saturday 16 April 2011, Dominik Haumann wrote:
> In KDE3 konqueror was never able to edit text with the embedded text
> view.
> By accident, this was possible in KDE 4.5. In KDE 4.6 we are back to
> read-
> only-mode in the embedded text part.
>Changing this is rather simple, but the question is whether you want
> Konqueror to be the app to also “modify everything”. That’s why it’s on
> kcd.

Ah, now I understand what this is about, I didn’t know katepart enabled
editing by mistake in 4.5.

Well, the issue is, Konqueror isn’t meant to be an editor.
There’s no save button, no warning about unsaved changes when closing the
window, or when going back in history – and generally not much room for a
ton
of editing-related menus/toolbars in addition to all the existing
menus/toolbars.

On one hand I can see the benefit of “editing right there, where we can
see the
text”, but if you think about it, in addition to the above list of
problems,
does that mean image manipulation tools should show when viewing an image?
And
HTML editing when viewing an HTML page?
I can see how some users are saying “yes”, but a large majority of users
has
been criticizing konqueror for the amount of menus and toolbars, so adding
editing functionality will just make it look like an even bigger beast that
only 1% of the existing konqueror users will feel comfortable using.

i’d still very much prefer editing facility, at least for text, perhaps
with a config-setting that’s disabled by default; but then, who am i to
say?


phani.

I’m a PhD student from Turkey working on computational physics.

This is my publication list : Mehmet Topsakal A-5015-2010 - ResearcherID.com

Konqueror was my most favorite application that used to produce this publication list.

I used to split a konqueror window into two and use “embedded text editor” to modify a text or script file while I used the other panel to view the output files when I run my script with “terminal emulator”…

Since my last upgrade to 4.6. I’m extremelly disappointed :’(

Please restore the embedded text editor as in 4.5.

My future research is in danger :frowning:

On Fri, 06 May 2011 19:06:03 +0530, metosa
<metosa@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:

>
> I’m a PhD student from Turkey working on computational physics.
>
> This is my publication list : ‘Mehmet Topsakal A-5015-2010 -
> ResearcherID.com’ (http://www.researcherid.com/rid/A-5015-2010)
>
> Konqueror was my most favorite application that used to produce this
> publication list.
>
> I used to split a konqueror window into two and use “embedded text
> editor” to modify a text or script file while I used the other panel to
> view the output files when I run my script with “terminal
> emulator”…
>
> Since my last upgrade to 4.6. I’m extremelly disappointed :’(
>
> Please restore the embedded text editor as in 4.5.
>
> My future research is in danger :frowning:
>

i’m afraid you’ll either have to downgrade your KDE4 install, or get used
to kate, per example. the developers decided that the “advanced embedded
text editor” actually editing text was a bug, and removed it…it won’t
come back, unless you hack konqueror yourself & publish a patch. (please
let me know if you do; i want it too!)


phani.

On Fri, 06 May 2011 21:55:03 +0530, phanisvara <listmail@phanisvara.com>
wrote:

>
> i’m afraid you’ll either have to downgrade your KDE4 install, or get
> used to kate, per example. the developers decided that the “advanced
> embedded text editor” actually editing text was a bug, and removed
> it…it won’t come back, unless you hack konqueror yourself & publish a
> patch. (please let me know if you do; i want it too!)
>

…and by the way, there’s very few KDE developers hanging out at these
forums, if any. you’ll get in contact with them at the KDE devel mailing
list (kde-devel@kde.org). but don’t get your hopes up: this has been
discussed, or rather a few questions have been reluctantly answered, and
nobody wants to hear about this topic anymore; at least that’s my
impression.


phani.

I read once a book on Interfacing, borrowed from the library, I forgot the title. What was extensively defended was what I call now “in place editing”. You can see examples of this in Web 2.0 environments. You view a page and when you click on a text that was meant to be editable it converts in a textarea and you can change it right away. This very Quick Reply editor is almost like that (you click Edit and I can add this text without opening a new window). The whole Web 2.0 culture is heading that way, so why not do it in Desktop culture?

The rules of user friendliness indeed prescribe that you should avoid unnecessary change of context to avoid confusion, annoyance (delays of opening a an extra editing application) with the user. When you read a book and want to add some notes you just need to take a pencil and write (in some cultures that is also inacceptible but that is another discussion). You don’t need to copy the whole book to another media and then write and the copy it back, what is happening when you open an external editor.

There is no logical reason why you would not edit where you can view. The inhibitions are only between the ears of some that are stuck in their ways.