How i can install OpenSuse 11.2 and 11.3 (in future) with KDE 3 ?
KDE 4 is ****, witch using lot of PC recourses unnecessary.
Please give back option to choose between KDE3 and KDE4.
Otherwise, when 11.1 support will run out i will need to start use other Linux distro.
There are no plans to go backwards and support KDE3 as a primary desktop. My suggestion is to do like I did and install KDE 4 and learn to shape it to work similar to KDE 3. For instance. The first thing I do is to right click on the desktop and change it to “Folder View”. Second, I have found the newer the version of KDE 4 that you can install, the more that all aspects of the desktop will work properly together.
Finally, you do not have to get rid of all of your KDE 3 applications. Many work just fine under KDE 4. For instance, I still use Kaffeine from KDE 3, something you can easily do by adding in a couple of KDE 3 Software Repositories. Kaffeine from KDE 3 properly supports spdif pass-through for Dolby Digital 5.1 and has several features not included in the latest Kaffeine version that comes with KDE 4. Further, I still love the old KPOKER and the KDE 3 Matrix screen saver. All of which work just fine under KDE 4.
While you may find a way to get KDE 3 to work as your main desktop in openSUSE 11.2 or 11.3, it will never get primary support again under openSUSE. Stop swimming upstream and switch to KDE 4. You can have your cake (KDE 3 applications) and eat it too under openSUSE 11.2 and KDE 4.
Thank You,
And I might also add, it’s not just openSUSE, all the major distros have moved. It’s KDE that’s pushing the change, because they cannot afford to spread developers across two platforms.
If you really cannot live without KDE3, there are some retro distro efforts, you have to seek them out. It’s open source, and anybody is free to continue to support KDE3 on their own or in a group of like-minded people. But the die is cast, there is no going back, not for KDE, nor for openSUSE, nor for the other mainstream distros.
To install KDE3 on OpenSUSE 11.2 just click this link: http://software.opensuse.org/ymp/KDE:KDE3/openSUSE_11.2/kdebase3-session.ymp
Then exit KDE4 or Gnome session and select KDE3 on the logon screen.
For other release just go to Software.openSUSE.org , select your release and search for kdebase3-session package (which is needed to start a KDE3 session). I recommend to install it from KDE:KDE3 repository, because this repo has the most complete set of KDE3 applications, but kdebase3-session in 11.3 will be also available from the official repository (unlike 11.2).
OpenSUSE is one of a few distributions which unlike many others still keep KDE3 available.
To install KDE3 on OpenSUSE 11.2 just click this link: http://software.opensuse.org/ymp/KDE:KDE3/openSUSE_11.2/kdebase3-session.ymp
Then exit KDE4 or Gnome session and select KDE3 on the logon screen.
For other release just go to Software.openSUSE.org , select your release and search for kdebase3-session package (which is needed to start a KDE3 session). I recommend to install it from KDE:KDE3 repository, because this repo has the most complete set of KDE3 applications, but kdebase3-session in 11.3 will be also available from the official repository (unlike 11.2).
OpenSUSE is one of a few distributions which unlike many others still keep KDE3 available, so guys please do not misinform the topicstarter.
KD3 is clean, simple, stable, fast and easy to configure. KDE 4 is an abomination. I have been using, programming and supporting computers and networks for nearly 40 years. Everything from VMS to OS/2 to Mac to Windows to Unix and Linux. KDE 4 is one of the most non intuitive and user unfriendly interfaces I have ever experienced. KDE4 is slow, buggy and, still as of 4.3.5, missing some of the most elementary and necessary user configuration abilities. It would appear to be written by people who have no interest in capturing a broader audience for Linux. It is almost exclusionary in that only those who are free to spend an inordinate amount of time investigating its convoluted workings, or who are part of its development effort will be able to fully realize its capabilities. This is not to say that KDE4 is not a superior exercise in programming expertise. The problem is it is an utter failure in the drive to provide a vehicle that enables a computer user to get real work done with a minimum expenditure of extra time and effort. Compared to KDE4, the Windows GUI is a model of user friendliness.
I am currently running Suse 11.1 with KDE3.5 as my interface. In order to use updated (bug fixed) versions of essential programs, I had to install KDE 4.3.5, which disabled KDE 3.5 by design. I then had to go back and reinstall kdebase3-session in order to get my KDE3 back. Sadly, KDE4.3.5 breaks KDE3s sound system (The sound drivers do still work. I can test them in Yast. However, applications that go through KDE, and KDE3 itself, have no sound)
I installed Suse 11.2 and tried to get used to it, but dumped it after a few days of failing to get it to behave as I needed. Yesterday I downloaded and installed the Suse 11.3 Milestone 7 code. The KDE 4 in that release is no better than earlier versions. If Suse is actually going to offer, and support, 11.3 with KDE3 then my hats off to them. I’ll be watching for that to happen with baited breath.
The obvious solution to this is for the KDE developers to come to their senses and build a KDE3 style interface onto the KDE4 underlying platform. It is obviously possible, as KDE4 apps run just fine on my system through the KDE3 GUI. They need to quit trying to mesmerize us with their imaginative creativity and imagery and get back to building a reliable, stable and user friendly environment.
After all, it isn’t about them (programmers), it’s about us (users).
A good analogy to all this is attending a music concert and having a horrible sonic experience because the mixing engineer happens to be deaf above 5kHz from spending too many years listening to deafening guitar licks, and only cares for what sounds good to HIM. The house can empty out while under his breath he’s calling every one that leaves a “butt” (or worse) because they don’t appreciate his great work!
WE are the audience! If you (KDE programmer) want kudos, money, extra Coke and dough-nuts, or any other perks that society bestows on those who are able to make life better, you have to pay attention to us and stop feeding your ego!
To those who say “KDE4 is the future, so shut up and get used to it”: …You can go sit in the corner and play with your Amigas… The future belongs to the people who provide cost effective and user friendly solutions, not to the ones who are more proud of their own “chops” than their ability to enable others to use theirs.
Good luck with that. 
Just a quick addendum:
Got my sound back. Somehow in the juggling between KDE4 and KDE3, Suse picked up a requirement that a user who wanted sound function must be a member of the “audio” group. (A big thanks to another member of the Suse Forums whose post led me to the fix!) I’ve never had to do this before, but adding the audio group to my user name and re logging in restored access to my audio devices.
For now, at least, I’m a completely happy Suse 11.1 camper. As far as I can tell so far, while having the KDE3.5 GUI in place, I have executable support for KDE4.3.5 level applications!
You can safely upgrade to 11.2. BTW, I have sound in KDE3 even without being myself in audio. Maybe this is fixed in 11.2.
At the risk of all: KDE4 is not buggy, it sure is not an abomination.
KDE4 is what allows you to run KDE4 apps under KDE3 (take a look at the libs installed)
The devs at kde.org took good care of the fact that users would want to run their favorite KDE3 apps under KDE4 and v.v. Which works very well on all my systems, and the ones I manage.
You won’t hear me say: get used to it. The one thing I can say is: Use what you like, let others use what they like.
And, if you seriously want to test KDE4 for it’s merits and disadvantages, do so on a clean user account.
Thank You, Ansus, for Your clear statement in favour of KDE3.
I am working on 2 laptops -one with o.S.11.1,the other one with 11.2- all with gnome and
KDE3. So whenever I thought to spend time replacing KDE3 by a KDE4 version I was able to return to gnome and to eventually reinstall KDE3 either with zypper or Yast.
As of now I didn’t encounter sound problems.
EK
The devs at kde.org took good care of the fact that users would want to run their favorite KDE3 apps under KDE4 and v.v.
I doubt they spent any effort in that direction. Installing KDE3 along KDE4 is rather difficult task and not many distributions managed to allow that. In fact even package names in KDE3 and KDE4 coincide which makes it especially difficult task to include both in any DEB-based distribution (where package names are used for dependency resolution).
The only thing why we still can use both KDE3 and KDE4 is that Novell’s effort to make the both compatible back in those times when both still were supported by Novell. Novell did not do like other vendors did (such as Ubuntu) who just replaced KDE3 with KDE4 at the stage when KDE4 was close to a beta-testing stage and forced people either accept or move to Gnome.
The attention may have been more then it is now, but it sure was there, also on Debian. Articles on protocols in the KDE naming conventions were all over the place when KDE4 first arrived.
It’s been explained by the kde.org again and again, that the KDE framework simply was not enough to keep on serving user wishes (amongst other things). Simply technology that does no longer suit all needs.
I bet I can make a KDE4 desktop appearance that looks completely KDE3, and most of KDE3 users wouldn’t know the difference. Yes, they would discover lots of new features and notice further integration of apps.
I bet I can make a KDE4 desktop appearance that looks completely KDE3, and most of KDE3 users wouldn’t know the difference. Yes, they would discover lots of new features and notice further integration of apps
I doubt it is possible. The only KDE3-like style available in KDE4 is Phase (which I personally dislike) and it is impossible to have plasma (the taskbar) to use the same style. Also they have ugly Oxygen icons and the only icon theme ported from KDE3 is ‘KDE Classic’, although it is only partially compatible with KDE4. Among other things absence of spatial mode in file browser (which alone could be a barring issue for me), icons on the desktop are no longer managed by file manager (which considerably reduces functionality), impossibility to disable the glittering effects in plasma even when using themes completely alien to such style, no storage/network/home/trash icons on the desktop and many many other things.
It is much easier to make Gnome appear similar to KDE3.
At least the missing trash on the desktop
is in fact unintuitive and deterrent,
especially for unexperienced users.
In Gnome I missed similar things once.
However, under KDE4 that can be brought back quite simple:
Going to SUSE menu, section Computer, scrolling down
until the trash appears, clicking with the right mouse button
on that trash, then in the appearing context menu choosing
‘add to desktop’
brings back the trash (or an alias of it) on the desktop.
Other things will probably not be customised that easily:
I personally dislike that in the savings dialogue,
where saving a file in almost all cases will be the default action,
under KDE4 the abort button instead of the save button
appears in the lower right corner.
In other situations, such as a confirmation that an existing
file should be overwritten/replaced, to place the abort button
in the lower right corner makes much more sense.
After getting used to it a bit, in my view Dolphin feels quite well
and brings potential for quick working - despite the fact, that
the location by default is shown in that windows manner,
instead of by an ‘Editable Location’, like in a web browser,
which is much more original KDE style !
Still a few more thoughts on that.
Arguments like stable and fast sound good.
But a deeper reason for the critisism with respect to KDE 4
probably is the change in the user interface.
I learned to work fast under MacOS 8 and 9 by heart.
With KDE 3 I never had a problem.
That this changed at first with respect to KDE 4, see
No joke: How to open a folder in KDE 4.35 (openSUSE 11.2) ? - openSUSE Forums
had a simple reason:
From my experience under MacOS, I automaticly click on the folder icon
to open the folder, because under MacOS, if you click on the folder name
and move the mouse just a bit, the name of the folder is highlightened and
can be edited.
I don’t understand besides, why with KDE 4 a new separate window was
introduced to edit the name of a folder or file, instead of editing that name
in place, like under KDE 3 or MacOS - again one of the less intuitive
changes in KDE 4.
Selecting a folder under MacOS is by a single click, which is different
from KDE 3.
So under KDE 4 I clicked and clicked and clicked on the folder icon
and couldn’t open the folder.
Now folder selection in KDE 3 in the small icon view was easy
by clicking in the respective lines right of the foldername.
In large icon view it was more difficult to select, at least for the
first folder to be selected.
Probably the KDE developers considered that unsatisfactory.
And here the KDE developers changed a very basic concept,
with the problem that their new concept practically directly contradicts
the experience gathered by users on many of the important
or widely known desktops (Windows, MacOS, KDE3 and more).
However, whether one likes it or not, it is unlikely that KDE 3.5
stays alive for a long time.
Even if KDE 3.5 would be included in openSUSE 11.3 again,
what will be about openSUSE 12 ?
Because they are directly affected in their daily work,
users familiar to KDE 3 will classify the changes in the concepts
of the user interface as severe.
But in the end it may be more effective to ask the KDE developers
to revise some changes in the concepts of the user interface
that came with KDE 4,
or to ask for more choices for the users to change the behaviour
of the KDE 4 user interface (quite unusual idea, at least in the
windows world …).
How much programming work would that really take ?
E.g. to change the behaviour with respect to the opening of a folder ?
How many lines of code ?
A small piece of the overall code of KDE 3 or 4 I guess.
Here’s the point to attack.
The battle on KDE 3 can not be won.
Except if there is a split of the development of KDE.
Does anybody wants this ?
There is another issue with 11.2, which I do not believe relates to KDE version, that prevents me from that migration. Something within the networking configuration in 11.2 has so far prevented me from integrating it into my VERY heterogeneous network which includes two subnets linked with VPN via Smoothwall. Everything works peachy with any Suse from 10.0 to 11.1, but 11.2 will not properly connect. I have made a post on that topic in the networking area of the forum site.
Look, I would say this is off topic.
Why don’t you post this in the install-boot-login forum directly ?
11.2 is the actual version !
I’m quite sure that sb. will to try to find an answer to this.
That’s my experience.
I don’t understand besides, why with KDE 4 a new separate window was
introduced to edit the name of a folder or file, instead of editing that name
in place, like under KDE 3 or MacOS - again one of the less intuitive
changes in KDE 4.
Indeed. And also in Gnome. The problem seems to be connected with Plasma limitation. In KDE3, Gnome, Windows the desktop icons are handled by the file browser, so icons in folders and on the desktop behave similarly. Under KDE4 this is impossible.
Even if KDE 3.5 would be included in openSUSE 11.3 again,
what will be about openSUSE 12 ?
OBS nature allows users to fork projects and do the maintenance work themselves. You know there is even working KDE2 in OBS: http://software.opensuse.org/ymp/home:ars3niy/openSUSE_11.1/kdebase2.ymp
In any case it is possible to install software by enabling repositories intended for previous release.
But in the end it may be more effective to ask the KDE developers
to revise some changes in the concepts of the user interface
that came with KDE 4,
or to ask for more choices for the users to change the behaviour
of the KDE 4 user interface (quite unusual idea, at least in the
windows world …).
Many users already asked but they were firm. You know initially even kicker has been ported to Qt4 and first alpha releases of KDE4 came with kicker. But then the developers decided to drop the already ported and working kicker altogether (probably fearing insufficient testers for plasma). This decision even sparked an internal conflict in KDE team and some of the devs left the project.