This is not possible and you know that. Forking KDE was an option, but as you can understand, this is not he case. Remember the noise that Dolphin adoption generated. Remember the noise that the lack of split view and tabs generated. Again, we want a strong KDE4.
Yes I do. As I said, the point is not KDE 3.5 but the lack of its features in KDE 4.
Let me then rephrase it. Are important and key applications of KDE 3.x ported to KDE4 with all of their features? For example, Is KDevelop ready? Is Quanta ready? (just to name 2 applications).
Correct. I don’t have time, but some donations…
That’s the point. We should have a desktop that IS quite productive. And this is the point we disagree. As you said, it’s my choice. I made it and I stick with it.
This is not polite Forums exists in the first place in order to voice our concerns. So, nobody should ever shut-up. Why? If you don’t like what is said/written, then post your opinion as you did, as I did and as everyone is doing.
Thats good news! Hopefully many of those doing the complaining (about KDE3 being removed) will join the opensuse-packaging mail list and provide some help to this maintainer.
And by forcing people to spend time in maintaining an outdated system you’re hampering adoption thus slowing down the process of implementing new crucial and needed features.
Same story as with XP, people wouldn’t update - development on new features slowed down. Same with 32 bit - people didn’t upgrade, developers didn’t bother to implement new features, development stagnated.
Correct. I would prefer to have KDE4 be on par with KDE3 in features and applications and then crush the bugs. But, having KDE4 maintstream with some features of KDE3 not ported, and especialy, crucial applications, I believe that it did not worked out.
In any case, since we all try hard to use KDE4, report bugs, donate for development etc, its a matter of time (I hope).
My system here at work is dual boot, I have 10.3 and am testing 11.2 with XFCE. 11.0 and 11.1 did not stay on my computer because KDE 4 dose not support dual desktops (not xinerama or twinview). See threads below. I been using kde4 apps on kde3 desktop and haven been enjoying the kde4 apps. I just find that to much functionality has been removed from kde4 desktop to make it look pretty, kinda like Vista. Although XFCE is working with dual desktops if I cant get mp3 playback in amarok I am switching back to 10.3. I might try 11.0 or 11.1 again, but not going to use kde4 desktop. The KDE team went a different direction in 4 with docking panels. I turned them off in Vista, and I dont want to use them in Linux. You can not add apps, for quick launch, to the taskbar in kde4. I wounder if the KDE team is going to get more complaints about the KDE4 desktop now that Disto’s are not supplying the kde3 desktop.
It absolutely is possible, all the facilities are there on a plate, Mom & Pop distro’s have been able to release KDE3 in past, so what makes it impossible for the Stuckist-KDE3 users not to volunteer?
Now someone has, and is working on it.
Yes I do. As I said, the point is not KDE 3.5 but the lack of its features in KDE 4.
Feature sets will never be 1:1, it’s not humanly possible.
There’s some confusion you have about applications. Just because KDE SC becomes version 4, does not mean, every application any developer ever wrote for KDE 1,2 & 3 has to be released by KDE 4 team.
X offers a lot of compatability for old programs, and kde3 libs. Let’s see…
zypper in quanta
Retrieving repository ‘Updates for openSUSE 11.2-0’ metadata [done]
Building repository ‘Updates for openSUSE 11.2-0’ cache [done]
Loading repository data…
Reading installed packages…
Resolving package dependencies…
The following NEW packages are going to be installed:
kde3-kommander-runtime quanta tidy
3 new packages to install.
Overall download size: 4.7 MiB. After the operation, additional 17.7 MiB will be used.
Continue? [y/n/?] (y):
Your point was?
Let me then rephrase it. Are important and key applications of KDE 3.x ported to KDE4 with all of their features? For example, Is KDevelop ready? Is Quanta ready? (just to name 2 applications).
Oh, oh, see above. It does run, and it tells you what other programs to try to install to enable “missing” features.
As for KDevelop, it would seem to be non-essential, as whole slew of applications are ported to KDE4, but again there’s a kdevelop4 being offered on my system. No idea how ready it is for prime-time.
That’s the point. We should have a desktop that IS quite productive
…
Why? If you don’t like what is said/written, then post your opinion as you did, as I did and as everyone is doing.
If you whine in a non-productive way, and say how things should be, don’t be surprised if someone straightens up the facts where there are inacuracies.
Now someone has actually stepped in to try to do something with KDE3, moaning about KDE4 does not help him.
People pitching in does.
In past, I had sympathy with keeping KDE3 and installing KDE-3.5.x was the best choice in 11.1, KDE4 ought to have been the harder to find option. But frankly now KDE4.3.4 is good enough. I think time on KDE3 support would be better invested in KDE4.
Those who want to gripe about KDE4, should at least get their facts straight, rather than waste other peoples time on rebuttals.
KDE4 is a productive desktop, somethings work better than the older KDE, they do need to improve application stability. But it really has improved a lot, in the last year.
amarok support of mp3 has nothing to do with KDE, the Packman version ought to support fully restricted media codecs.
You can not add apps, for quick launch, to the taskbar in kde4.
Nonsense! I have done exactly that, you simply unlock the task bar and drag them onto it.
As for Multi-monitor support, we know Plasma and Kwin have had issues with features used by all users & stability, so it’s hardly surprising if a minority feature waits till the basics are in place. It appears from comments in that thread that the issue is X & Nvidia driver related, with them not supporing XRandR, which is becoming more and more essential with each X server upgrade.
Solid? It has crashed on me twice in the last twenty four hours, which isn’t really what I call solid.
Now both those crashes were ‘return from suspend, go straight to chooser’ crashes, so that’s probably a single bug, but its still not good enough.
I’m now using kde most of the time, because I think that it is the future, but the stability isn’t there yet, and in that context, having something that could be relied on to work was very valuable.
And, I’m updating kde 4 really very frequently, and some of those updates are more successful in the bug-free stakes than others, and that gets to be a bit of a pain after a while. What I’d really like to get is a distro with a kde that didn’t need that level of tlc, but I’m not expecting that until I see a distro that comes with 4.4.something out of the box.
And I’ve been using it since 11.2 came out without a single crash which leads me to believe most of the people screaming bloody murder should look at their hardware / drivers (Especially ATi users) rather than point the finger at KDE.
Update: make that three times, in twenty four hours and I’m not an ATI user; it is an ‘Mobile GM965/GL960 Integrated Graphics Controller’, which may be slow, but it does just work… well, except if you use kde 4, maybe.
Enlightenment never crashes, Gnome never crashes, XFCE (not that I use that much) never crashes. Some versions of KDE 4 have never crashed, but 4.3.3 does. IIRC 4.3.2 was stable, 4.3.1 wasn’t completely. There were certainly problems with the 4.1 series, but that’ll have been a whole load of other problems, screen saver primarily.
I know now that sticking with the previous version of kde would have been advisable, but this is one of those times that you only know that once you’ve broken it, but given that roughly alternate versions are stable, there is hope for the next version, but it really isn’t what you’d call ideal.
Oh, I must’ve IMAGINED those issues with 11.1 and the iNtel driver because as As I recall 3.5.x went down crashing and burning left and right under 11.1 if you happened to be using an iNTEL. That is, if you were actually able to install it due to the disasterous intel_drv.so that shipped with it that usually ended up with a black screen. Short is the memory of man, eh?
As I said, perhaps your crashing issues are more related to the driver rather than KDE itself.
… an update from about an hour agai, to that thread, is I decided NOT to update to 11.2 because of the sad state of the Intel graphics driver. Instead I am sticking with 11.1 where the Intel graphics driver works with the 11.1 kernel. BUT I am currently in the process of re-installing 11.1 with an updated KDE-4.3.4 desktop (replacing the old KDE-3.5.10 on that laptop). The significantly improved clone desktop (for driving an external display) is a feature KDE4 provides that my wife and I must have, and KDE3 unfortunately did not “cut it” for that feature on this model laptop.
>
> markone;2086341 Wrote:
>> That will obviously be the hardware, then.
> Oh, I must’ve IMAGINED those issues with 11.1 and the iNtel driver
> because as As I recall 3.5.x went down crashing and burning left and
> right under 11.1 if you happened to be using an iNTEL. That is, if you
> were actually able to install it due to the disasterous intel_drv.so
> that shipped with it that usually ended up with a black screen. Short is
> the memory of man, eh?
>
> As I said, perhaps your crashing issues are more related to the driver
> rather than KDE itself.
You’re tilting at the wrong windmill here. The real issue is that many of
us support multiple users and consider the computer system - not just the
computer - to be a tool to accomplish work. If configuration A works and
configuration B doesn’t then configuration A is the answer - that’s
acceptance testing 101. I’m all for progress but not at the cost of
usability. Even stripping KDE4 down as far as I can does not give me a
room full of users who are as productive as they were with KDE3 - too many
changes in functionality with no simple way to incrementally integrate the
changes as their value is demonstrated. That argument disregards stability
issues regardless of cause. Instability, for whatever reason, is just one
of many reasons to reject the product if the previous level was stable in
that environment.
Then, instead of having that conversation, why don’t you help me with the crash of Quanta? I have another post in the same forum.
It is quite different to have an application ported and another one not. Quanta for example, was part of KDE. Not an external application.
I totally agree with you.
Yes, but still it’s not on par with KDE 3.5, in productivity. You cannot deny that. Unless of course you belong to the group of people that do not care about usability. For example, had you ever tried to edit a file with kwrite or kate from Dolphin SU? Simply, you cannot. For some stupid ‘security’ concern.
Anyway, if you thing that I moan, then please answer myposts for Quanta. Because I spend 99.5% of my day with it and now, I moan instead of working.
Actually, for some of us your statement is not correct.
KDE4 is more productive for me. With KDE3 my laptop would not drive an external display reliably, with out a lot of hacking on the spot, every time I was in a meeting. And that was not practical.
With KDE4 it just works. This is far more productive in a corporate meeting, and I would not dream of taking a KDE3 laptop to that meeting. KDE3 just did NOT work. KDE4 just works for that function.
To make such a global statement that users who find KDE4 works better than KDE3 do not care about usability is nonsense. Its a statement of frustration and not a balanced statement. The fact many of us on this and other threads are saying KDE4 does work is also another indication that KDE4 works better for a number of us. YES, many do find KDE3 falls short, but I venture a view that many of us find KDE4 works better.
We are not fan boys pushing a shiny new product. we are simply relating our experience with KDE4.
I have to say that I agree generally with Will Honea above in that “progress”, “modernity” etc are poor compensation for show-stopping degradations of functionality. For me, the usefulness of the OS (apart from browsing the web and email) is tied specifically to my being able to develop and maintain C++ GUI apps.
OpenSuSE 11.1 / KDE 3.5x provide an entirely satisfactory and functional environment for my purposes. What incentive (other than its “modernity”) does KDE4 offer? Who, for example, needs to rotate widgets?? Or view multiple desktops as faces of a cube?? I would much rather the KDE folks had put an equivalent effort into meaningful functionality and bug fixes instead of into weird eye-candy.
As for KDevelop4, I notice no one has responded to my request for documentation on migrating from the KDE3 world to the KDE4 one. As far as I can tell, no such documentation exists. For example, kdevelop.org has numerous obsolete links–for example to a kdevelop tutorials and documentation that are years out of date.
It appears I’m left to create skeleton KDevelop4 projects and trying to paste in my code piecemeal. That’s going to be a ton of work–and for what benefit to me or to my users?
Maybe the OpenSuSE and KDE developers are “Having a lot of fun”, but this consumer of their [product] is not.
I don’t need it and i don’t have the Money to buy a new PC. And i’m not alone !
I selve have only a 32 bit PC:
Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe, Athlon 3500+, 3 GB Ram, HVR 1300 TV Card, Geforce 7800 AGP-GPU and a Audigy Sound Card.
I dont play Uptodate Games on the PC but i works with it. (Webprogrmming).
I use SuSE at the 7.2 Realese (and higher) and all SuSE Distries with KDE 3 runs Stable. I tryed KDE4 and if i watched Tv, the Screensaver was going every 30 minutes on, but the Screensaver was turned off !!
Why i need the 3-D Desktop Efects?? I don’t need it.
For some People is KDE 4 a good choice, but not for me and kde 4 dont run Stable on older Hardware :(. I have a old Laptop and have on it problems with KDE 4, too.
Did have KDE 4 now the digital clock from KDE 3?
I hope the KDE 4 will run Stable on older Hardware and have in future all the funktions from KDE 3 (Themesmanager, etc…)
Forums exists in the first place in order to voice our concerns. So, nobody should ever shut-up. Why? If you don’t like what is said/written, then post your opinion as you did, as I did and as everyone is doing.