KDE 3.5.x not in OpenSuSE 11.2

Source: openSUSE News » KDE in openSUSE 11.1 and Beyond

KDE 3.5 will not be included on 11.2 “official” media or in the release repository for 11.2, but the community certainly has the option of creating KDE 3.5 packages in the build service, and creating live CDs with KDE 3.5 packages for 11.2.

What’s everyone’s views on this? I personally think that 3.5.x should stay till 12.x.

Hi,

I think it is the right decision because kde 3.x will be discontinued and the suse team has then to fix the bugs and security issues all alone by themselves. Be happy that it is included in 11.1 because other distributors already removed it :slight_smile:

Have a lot of fun

I think it’s ok. At this point in time KDE4.1.3 is, to my eyes, not mature enough and lacks few functions 3.5 has, but many of them are now included in the alpha version of 4.2. By June 2009 (release of 11.2, probably), KDE4 will be a lot more mature and will most probably include all functions that were in 3.5.

I hope. :slight_smile:

Also, many packages are ported to KDE4, some stuff are still lagging (like icon sets and that stuff, but that is not maintained by opensuse), but next summer it will be a lot better!

In June 2009, it will be 16 months since the first release of KDE4, which then should take over 3.5 as Monex said.

Monex wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> I think it is the right decision because kde 3.x will be discontinued
> and the suse team has then to fix the bugs and security issues all alone
> by themselves. Be happy that it is included in 11.1 because other
> distributors already removed it :slight_smile:
>
> Have a lot of fun
>
>
Though I’m using kde4 I still run some kde3 apps and I think it’s too early to drop kde3, though at some point it will be time - maybe 11.3

Of course what does “drop” mean? Will there still be the kdelibs just no desktop?


Suse 11.0 x64, Kde 4.2beta (unstable repo), Opera 9.x weekly

I just hope that some apps will still be available. Like Amarok 1.4.x (which is not a KDE app, but of course uses KDE3 libs). I tried Amarok 2, but I dislike it. I can’t even get close to making it as useful as 1.4 is to me. Maybe someone will fork 1.4 for bugfixes. :confused:

For me there are two reasons why this idea, if it is indeed true, it is a good idea:
Firstly, there must be a considerable overhead in supporting two versions of KDE. Therefore I would prefer that all the development effort went into the latest KDE 4.1 and 4.2 releases, rather than maintaining support for the legacy version.
Secondly, in order to attract more and more users to Linux, the version of KDE supplied must include as much eye candy, 3-D effects and bells and whistles as possible in order to complete with Windows Vista and 7 and the features such as the sidebar, Aero transparency and new Windows 7 features. This means that many potential new Linux users would not be interested in using the KDE 3.5 series, so effort to continue to support it becomes less valuable.

rjwilmsi wrote:
> For me there are two reasons why this idea, if it is indeed true, it is
> a good idea:
> Firstly, there must be a considerable overhead in supporting two
> versions of KDE. Therefore I would prefer that all the development
> effort went into the latest KDE 4.1 and 4.2 releases, rather than
> maintaining support for the legacy version.
> Secondly, in order to attract more and more users to Linux, the version
> of KDE supplied must include as much eye candy, 3-D effects and bells
> and whistles as possible in order to complete with Windows Vista and 7
> and the features such as the sidebar, Aero transparency and new Windows
> 7 features. This means that many potential new Linux users would not be
> interested in using the KDE 3.5 series, so effort to continue to support
> it becomes less valuable.
>

With the assumption that 4.x will be stable, I can live with that (so
far 4.1.x seems decidedly unstable on my system). However, I would like
to see two installation options:
1 KDE4 minimum gloss
2 KDE4 with eye candy and all the other (unnecessary) bells and whistles
:slight_smile:

That way, I can install without having to go through the lists to get
rid of all the stuff I will never use but was forced to download :frowning:


PeeGee

Asus M2V-MX SE, AMD LE1640, openSuSE 11.0 x86-64/XP Home dual boot
Asus M2NPV-VM, AMD 64X2 3800+, openSuSE 10.3 x86-64/XP Home dual boot

I don’t really see a problem. That’s 6 months from now, and KDE 4 is already solid. The only thing missing is features that we had in KDE 3.5, so right now KDE 4 is a lot like explorer. I think the developers can add a lot of those features and more in 6 months.

The KDE Project has already stopped working on 3.5 to the best of my knowledge. Asking our KDE folks to maintain two branches of KDE - the cutting edge / development branch + a dead branch with no maintenance / bugfixes from upstream, is unreasonable.

If the community steps up to maintain 3.5 or even continue development, then we could revisit the possibility of including 3.5 in further releases – but as things stand now, putting the entire responsibility on our small team of KDE folks is not reasonable for 11.2, much less until 12x.

Speaking of features: I’m afraid if they’re not added (and added quick), KDE may face the fate of Vista, namely, many users dropping it for a better desktop environment. KDE has been overlooking the fact that functionality should come first, not eye candy. I for one love KDE, but if some of the features I heavily use were to be dropped, I’d start seriously reconsidering Gnome.

I was rather anxious to use KDE 4.
Many applications lack the features of it’s KDE 3 counter part.
I gave it a try 3 days ago and didn’t end up reinstalling itrotfl!
It can be considered a great success.
P.S. I ended up uninstalling all KDE 3 apps and leaving only KDE 4.
P.S.2 If You want Your KDE 4 fly don’t use Compiz with it.

Unconfined wrote:
> Source: ‘openSUSE News » KDE in openSUSE 11.1 and Beyond’
> (http://news.opensuse.org/2008/09/09/kde-in-opensuse-111-and-beyond/)
>
>> KDE 3.5 will not be included on 11.2 “official” media or in the release
>> repository for 11.2, but the community certainly has the option of
>> creating KDE 3.5 packages in the build service, and creating live CDs
>> with KDE 3.5 packages for 11.2.
>
> What’s everyone’s views on this? I personally think that 3.5.x should
> stay till 12.x.

Well, given that 11.2 is 6 months away or so, and KDE 4 will continue to
improve, I figure it’ll be fine. And if it isn’t there’s always Debian
Lenny. <g>

…Kevin

Kevin Miller
http://www.alaska.net/~atftb
Juneau, Alaska
Registered Linux User No: 307357, http://counter.li.org

After using KDE 4.3.x in OpenSuSE 11.2; I believe that KDE 3.5.x should be supported with an official repository in 11.2 and beyond. Until KDE 4.x or KDE 5.x can deliver “all” of what KDE 3.5 can offer and then provide more… KDE 3.5 may well remain the interface of choice for many of us.

Long live KDE 3.5 until KDE 4.x or 5.x can equal it and deliver more!

http://wiki.urbandead.com/images/4/45/Beat_Dead_Horse.jpg
Same as the people who kept crying how XP should be supported to the end of days.

It’s dead and buried, let it go and concentrate on improving KDE4 which pretty much does everything KDE3 already does. So what if it doesn’t support some insignificant little details 3 has, learn new ways of doing things.

This is very correct! Unfortunately, many applications of KDE4 are not reaching the level of KDE3.

One is wondering: why did the KDE4 developers drop the finest features of applications while continuing the work on new versions? Example: Kaffeine of KDE4 does not have video/audio adjustments: pressing “v” does nothing.

I use KDE 4.3.4 after the upgrade of 10.3 to 11.2. I am not happy at all. Personally, I cannot see the “quantum leaps” etc from desktop side. I cannot see how plasma could improve my productivity (which it did not).
Most of the KDE3 apps are much more mature and better than their KDE4 counterparts. Dolphin sucks, Konq in file manager mode lack features we had for YEARS in KDE3 Konq etc.

Since 11.2 is installed in a VM in my office’s PC, I will restore it to 10.3. I know that I will not have updates, but until the majority of KDE4 apps are on par with KDE3, I will stick with it.

Basic parts of KDE-3.5 like Konqueror simply are unsupported upstream. The community had the chance to support KDE 3.5, they did not. Tried reading Google Mail with Konqueror 3.5.x? (you can in KDE4)

What about Qt3? You able to support that? Do you know how long it is since Trolltech moved to Qt4?

the majority of KDE4 apps are on par with KDE3, I will stick with it.

The majority of KDE4 apps, are very much on a par with KDE3 versions and often are improved.

But it’s your choice. The last release with supported KDE3 is 11.1. You don’t need to use 10.3. Even those without time or skills needed to support KDE3, could have paid someone to do it, they did not.

In short term changes do not “improve productivity”, KDE-4 is improving with every release, and though it is frustrating to find bugs, the desktop is now well placed to move forwards, based on a modern, highly portable and efficient toolkit.

There’s plenty of ppl who will whine and moan on forums, and say what “should be supported”, but very few of those who seem to step up and take on the challenges they would impose on others.

If you’re a stuckist, it’s time to put up, or shut up.

Fortunately there are KDE-3.5.10 repositories for openSUSE users who want openSUSE-11.2 with KDE-3.5.10. It is not officially supported, but the repository is there for users with the time to figure it out.

Plus openSUSE-11.1 still has a supported KDE-3.5.10 for users who are NOT willing to move. openSUSE-11.1 should be supported for another 10 to 11 months or so.

Reference this comment, I also note there are applications in KDE3 that do not reach the level of KDE4. Yes, in some areas KDE3 IS better. But in other areas KDE4 IS better.

For example, I was able to use the improved capability of openSUSE-11.1 with KDE4.3.2 to clone a latop display on a exernal projector in a corporate meeting last week. I could not do that with KDE3 (at least not without out restarting X, editing files (or changing files) etc … ) and delaying the meeting - and I say that about KDE3 as myself being an average Linux user. Basic Linux users would NOT have been able to do this with KDE3. But KDE4 “just worked”. It “just works” for beginner Linux users. It made a big difference for me in that corporate meeting.

Thats not to say users who MUST have a KDE3 feature should leave KDE3, but it does say to me that those KDE3 users better test KDE4, and ensure a bug report is written, and the bug report is being actively supported/tracked by them, to get their feature incorporated properly in KDE4. Because support for KDE3 has stopped, and KDE3’s days are numbers.

No end of complaining will change that. What will change that is new programmers to take on KDE3 maintenance, but I seriously doubt that will happen, as the KDE3 code base was already noted to be difficult to maintain, and I doubt anyone will want to take that task on. The software is old. Its not supported. And its difficult. Its a nightmare challenge that few would see the point in supporting.

The future is KDE4, and Novell in dropping KDE3 is lagging the other major distributions. Fortunately Novell, while up until openSUSE-11.1, while spending resources on KDE3, was still able to produce a KDE4 version that is as good if not better than that of other distributions.

… but back to the thread title: … one can STILL install KDE-3.5.10 on openSUSE-11.2, but its not a one-click install, nor is it an installation option. It will take time and effort, and it will not be supported.

IIRC the packages are getting removed from Factory, because not 1 person stepped forward to maintain them from community.

If you want KDE-3.5.x available with future releases, then you need to do something.

Typical, the situation changed in last few days.

KDE:/KDE3: does have a maintainer from community!

If you like KDE3, then perhaps you can check the opensuse-packaging mail list archive and see if the guy would like your help.