Issues with 12.1 filesystem

I’m not sure what the heck is going on with 12.1 but after a tumultuous install. I got things going nicely, OpenSuse seemed to be working great.
Two days later, filesystem errors, for no apparent reason.
Booting did an auto fsck, asked for root pass and said to run fsck manually. I ran it, and got the warning not to run fsck because the filesystem was mounted. It asked do you still want to run fsck? So I selected “N” obviously. it aborted, but then, Opensuse started e2fsck on its own and forced the check, what the hell? After the first error prompt I shutdown using the shutdown command because I didn’t want it to cause damage. Why the hell would Opensuse start something I declined? Its self destructive!

In any case, I used Gparted to check and fix the FS.
Even though it worked, and everything seems fine now, I have had problems like this many times with Opensuse 12.1 before.
Filesystem damage from just minimal usage literally.
I would shutdown the computer, and upon power up it boots with FS errors. I never know when it’s going tp happen.
Maybe the shutdown is not shutting down properly?
I have to say, this is not better than Windows so far. Its a hefty chore, I couldn’t see my mom using this for instance.
I have used Opensuse in the past with no issues. 12.1 has given me many problems.
But I am a trooper, and I will be waiting for the newest OpenSuse release. Because I have to keep hope that my favorite distro can be better than its current incarnation.
The Hard drive checks out ok with every tool Ive used even Western Digital’s own repair disk.
Running Opensuse x64

Without doubt you will be aware that almost no reports on damaged file systems (I guess you use ext4, though you do no tell) are reported here. Thus when you try to blame openSUSE in general for this, that is unfair imho. Now it is not that important that you are unfair, but when you want to find out with the help from others here why you have this problem regurlarly while others haven’t, you better stick to strict technical facts (of which you do provide some to be honest).

Let me say, just as hcvv has mentioned, its not normal to have a hard disk partition problem. Its not normal, for the same issue to occur more than once. I have installed many openSUSE versions up to and including the latest openSUSE 12.2 M2 and my main system has openSUSE 12.1 installed and working with numerous hard drives. Also, one must realize that bad hard disk sectors are location specific and may only show themselves when a partition, used for openSUSE is created at that location. One might want to see if SMART is enabled on the disk, which might help find such a bad place. You could open up a terminal session and type:

sudo /usr/sbin/smartctl -i /dev/sdx

Replace the x in sdx with an ‘a’ or ‘b’ or ‘c’, depending on the disk installed with /dev/sda being the best default. If SMART is disabled, you can run this command to enable it:

sudo /usr/sbin/smartctl -s on -d auto /dev/sdx

You can check out the drive health with this command:

sudo /usr/sbin/smartctl -d auto -H /dev/sdx

The auto command might fail for a usb drive when the chipset is unknown, like for a USB3 interface. I suggest you try these commands and let us know what you found.

Thank You,

On 2012-03-24 18:06, rain922 wrote:
>
> I’m not sure what the heck is going on with 12.1 but after a tumultuous
> install. I got things going nicely, OpenSuse seemed to be working
> great.

Did you do the official patches?

> Two days later, filesystem errors, for no apparent reason.
> Booting did an auto fsck, asked for root pass and said to run fsck
> manually. I ran it, and got the warning not to run fsck because the
> filesystem was mounted. It asked do you still want to run fsck? So I
> selected “N” obviously. it aborted, but then, Opensuse started e2fsck on
> its own and forced the check, what the hell?

If the partition was mounted r/w at that moment, fsck would stop and warn.
So probably it wasn’t.

> In any case, I used Gparted to check and fix the FS.
> Even though it worked, and everything seems fine now, I have had
> problems like this many times with Opensuse 12.1 before.

It is possible you have bad sectors.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” at Telcontar)

@robin_listas:
Prior to install of the system I did a low level format of the drive using my wifes Mac, so that would have eliminated any bad sectors.
But the question would be, if it does have bad sectors now, how would that happen? I had the system in for 3 days with this install, updated it using official patches with the built in reops, and installed Chromium, inkscape, and audacity. And went web browsing on amazon, that’s it. It’s pretty weird.

@jdmcdaniel3:
Thanks for the tip, I’ll try that.

@hcvv:
I am using ext4.
I have to say perhaps the FS errors may not be the complete fault of OpenSuse since I don’t know what happened. However I have had lots of issues pop up with previous installs, nepomuk was one issue. I had to re-install the OS 6 times before getting it to work right.
Installation with 12.1 in general remains one of the worst experience so far, the OpenSuse MD5 was validated so I ruled that out as a suspect. The HD checked out also. What was happening was install from DVD would report package errors and failed installs. I had to reformat and repartition using Gparted to get it to install right. Straight from DVD install was impossible. Even then, I had to put in specific values for the partitions to stop the errors.
for example if the HD had: sda1 /2.01gb/ and sda2 /20.0gb/ I would get lots of failed package installs. Changing partitions using the built in tool on the install DVD would not work. I had to do it in Gparted. One install went through after changing the swap to 2.0gb and sda2 to 19.5gb.

I agree with you putting the blame solely on Openuse may be a bit rash, but when you have lots of issues for no apparent reason, you really have nothing left to blame. I still don’t understand why it would force the fs check when I explicitly aborted it. That’s certainly an OpenSuse issue there and would cause panic for a common user.

Despite this, even if all things worked properly without fail. I still can’t wait for the BTRS filesystem to work better with regards to taking the system back to a working state. And the upcoming Project Bretzn app-store. Which in my opinion will finally get people’s mom’s/girlfriend’s/childeren really using linux. It will be a game changer. Once these people do start using linux, then game developers and major software vendors will start producing software for it. Personally i would love to have photoshop and painter versions for linux since the only Wine I use is the drinkable kind.
Again, to reiterate, putting ‘all’ the blame on OpenSuse may not completely be just.

Have you considered you’re experiencing hard disk failure, particularly if your HD is “consumer grade” and more than 3 1/2 years old… The symptoms you describe (repeated disk errors, automatic checks and sometimes even file corruption) are typical of failing disks.

Recommend you find a utility that can read S.M.A.R.T data and do some disk health checks.

HTH,
TS

Funny you mention this because I was thinking the same thing.

On 2012-03-24 20:46, rain922 wrote:
> Installation with 12.1 in general remains one of the worst experience
> so far, the OpenSuse MD5 was validated so I ruled that out as a suspect.

Of the downloaded image, or of the DVD itself?

> The HD checked out also. What was happening was install from DVD would
> report package errors and failed installs. I had to reformat and
> repartition using Gparted to get it to install right. Straight from DVD
> install was impossible. Even then, I had to put in specific values for
> the partitions to stop the errors.

It looks to me a bad DVD.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” at Telcontar)

On Sat, 24 Mar 2012 20:16:03 +0000, rain922 wrote:

> Funny you mention this because I was thinking the same thing.

Seems that if it’s a hardware issue, it’s not really appropriate to
‘blame’ openSUSE for the problems. There’s no OS on the planet that can
predict a hardware failure and ‘route around’ it.

I’d suggest sticking to the facts of what’s happening and the issues you
are having, rather than pointing fingers. The former tends to get issues
resolved; the latter, not so much.

Jim


Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

On 2012-03-25 05:39, Jim Henderson wrote:

> Seems that if it’s a hardware issue, it’s not really appropriate to
> ‘blame’ openSUSE for the problems. There’s no OS on the planet that can
> predict a hardware failure and ‘route around’ it.

Hmmm, yes, there is :slight_smile:

Hardware and software designed for that contingency. You can, for example,
change the board of the 5ESS’s “computer” while running non stop.
Traditional telephony hardware. Very, very expensive.

That equipment had hardware check routines and told you of problems before
it affected service. Kind of predictive. Not really, it was heavily
replicated internally.

Not a thing we are likely to see at home, not even on computer centers.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” at Telcontar)

On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 13:23:05 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> On 2012-03-25 05:39, Jim Henderson wrote:
>
>> Seems that if it’s a hardware issue, it’s not really appropriate to
>> ‘blame’ openSUSE for the problems. There’s no OS on the planet that
>> can predict a hardware failure and ‘route around’ it.
>
> Hmmm, yes, there is :slight_smile:
>
> Hardware and software designed for that contingency. You can, for
> example,
> change the board of the 5ESS’s “computer” while running non stop.
> Traditional telephony hardware. Very, very expensive.
>
> That equipment had hardware check routines and told you of problems
> before it affected service. Kind of predictive. Not really, it was
> heavily replicated internally.
>
> Not a thing we are likely to see at home, not even on computer centers.

Which is really the important thing in this particular instance.

Jim


Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

Jim, first your a bit late to the game here, as HCVV already beat you to this same comment, do we really need to repeat it? And I already replied saying perhaps i was too quick to blame Opensuse for the filesystem problem. So I feel your comment is unjustified.
Besides, I had checked out the drive thoroughly and the drive may or ‘may not’ have physical failure. So far no evidence at all of physical failure, only a suspicion because of getting an occasional broken filesystem on boot up, which happens randomly. ‘Maybe’ this particular problem possibly is not the fault of Opensuse, but let me tell you opensuse is far from perfect. I have had other problems with Opensuse that are unrelated to this post which I had to fix manually and some which I have no clue how to fix. So far with Opensuse, I have had lock ups, a problem where the ‘Leave’ and ‘Shutdown’ buttons would not work. I had to go into terminal as root and type the shutdown command (rebooting fixed it). Had my system just stop and lag, issues with nepomuk, the sound controls not working (rebooting fixed this also) some application not installing correctly, chromium causing severe lockups to the system and I needed to uninstall it to fix (ok fine, thats a chromium issue :p) and other samall issues, especially with Apper, which always causes issues. Yast is my friend. But the main thing is I haven’t stopped using Opensuse, and I am willing to try things to find out the real problems, Opensuse or not.
I think we shouldn’t scold someone if they feel it is Opensuse causing the issues, because sometimes it ‘is’ the problem. And coming to that conclusion may seem to be the only logical explanation. During trouble shooting we come to conclusions, if the conclusion is wrong do we scold people for it? No, because mistakes will be made. We should be kind to one another, especially as a forum Admin, since you guys are leader and user will folow your example. and you guys set the tone of the whole forum. I have had kinder responses from other users. It’s one thing to politely correct someone saying, “maybe Opensuse isnt really the problem have you checked so and so?”
Also, I didn’t come here to throw blame, but to write my observations. If that is what I really believed to be the problem I have the write to share it without being badgered about it. Its fine to tell me or anyone else they may be wrong, but it’s how you say it that makes the difference.
i’m not here to attack anyoone, not even Opensuse which is my fav form of Linux.

On 2012-03-29 06:06, rain922 wrote:
> failure, only a suspicion because of getting an occasional broken
> filesystem on boot up, which happens randomly.

How is your clock?


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” at Telcontar)

hey Robin, after reading your message I looked at the clock and noticed it was a day behind. So I set the clock and it’s now keeping accurate time. I also just selected a timesever to keep it accurate.

Another strange thing is with the screen power settings. I have it set to the default settings which dims the screen after 10 min. After it dims the LCD, especially if I close the laptop lid then open it, It stays dim and doesn’t restore to original brightness. I then have to manually go to ‘configure desktop’ then go into the power management settings, and uncheck the option to restore the brightness.
-Michael

On 2012-03-29 18:06, rain922 wrote:
>
> hey Robin, after reading your message I looked at the clock and noticed
> it was a day behind. So I set the clock and it’s now keeping accurate
> time. I also just selected a timesever to keep it accurate.

That’s the cause of your fsck problem. You have to ensure that the cmos
clock is correct on boot, before network is available.

> Another strange thing is with the screen power settings. I have it set
> to the default settings which dims the screen after 10 min. After it
> dims the LCD, especially if I close the laptop lid then open it, It
> stays dim and doesn’t restore to original brightness. I then have to
> manually go to ‘configure desktop’ then go into the power management
> settings, and uncheck the option to restore the brightness.

That I do not know.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” at Telcontar)

On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 04:06:02 +0000, rain922 wrote:

> Jim, first your a bit late to the game here, as HCVV already beat you to
> this same comment, do we really need to repeat it? And I already replied
> saying perhaps i was too quick to blame Opensuse for the filesystem
> problem. So I feel your comment is unjustified.

You’re perfectly fine in feeling my comment is unjustified.
Nevertheless, I see plenty of people looking to ‘blame’ something or
‘threatening’ to leave openSUSE unless someone helps RIGHT NOW with the
issue they’re having.

Not everyone reads every message in a thread before putting their $0.02
in.

I’m not trying to jump on you here (or in the original post) - just
trying to encourage that you (and others - there are always lurkers on
threads in public forums) post FACTUAL information and not look to
“blame”.

I worked in IT for 15 years and saw my fair share of “blaming” take
place. “Blaming” doesn’t solve problems.

> problem possibly is not the fault of Opensuse, but let me tell you
> opensuse is far from perfect.

Software is far from perfect. Nobody claims that it is perfect (and
those who do delude themselves). So this is hardly news to anyone - and
not helpful to solving your probelm.

> I think we shouldn’t scold someone if they feel it is Opensuse causing
> the issues, because sometimes it ‘is’ the problem.

That wasn’t my intention. But as I said above, “blame” doesn’t solve
problems. Facts help solve problems.

> Also, I didn’t come here to throw blame, but to write my observations.
> If that is what I really believed to be the problem I have the write to
> share it without being badgered about it. Its fine to tell me or anyone
> else they may be wrong, but it’s how you say it that makes the
> difference.
> i’m not here to attack anyoone, not even Opensuse which is my fav form
> of Linux.

I apologize if you took my post to be ‘terse’ or ‘unkind’ - it wasn’t
intended that way. It was intended merely to suggest that sticking to
the facts is the most helpful when it comes to troubleshooting. If the
indications point to a problem in the openSUSE kernel, then fine, it’s a
bug that may need to fixed.

But to start with statements like:

“I agree with you putting the blame solely on Openuse may be a bit rash,
but when you have lots of issues for no apparent reason, you really have
nothing left to blame.”

Well, no, you have a fair bit left to ‘blame’. But ultimately, ‘blame’
isn’t going to fix the problem. You’ve started with a conclusion rather
than a premise, and I have found in my extensive experience in
troubleshooting technical issues that if you start with a conclusion,
more often than not, you miss something critical.

My inclination, when there are many thousands of users who use the system
without the instabilities you seem to be experiencing is to ask “what’s
different about your system?”. It’s not the kernel (unless you’ve
built your own or installed a non-standard kernel). It’s not other
software that others are successfully using.

Therefore, it must be something specific to your installation. Which
means either a corrupt installation (which can happen, but isn’t very
common, as there are checksums on the download - especially if you use a
torrent to download - and on RPMs as well, which would throw issues
during the install), or something specific to your hardware.

Consumer grade hardware does not tend to last as long as commercial-grade
hardware. That’s why it’s cheaper.

It also tends to have a lower MTBF as a result of less rigorous testing
and lower grade materials used in manufacturing.

So…when I see someone say “I’m getting all sorts of weird lockups,
disk errors, and what not - openSUSE MUST be to blame!”, I do feel it’s
necessary to say “Well, not really.” - because if openSUSE were the
cause, you wouldn’t be the only person seeing that particular issue (or
one of a very few).

So the trick is to figure out what’s different about your setup from
those that work.

That’s how you troubleshoot a problem like this. Don’t start with
the conclusion that it must (or even may) be the distro, regardless
of which distro it is.

Does that make sense?

Jim

Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

first, I accept your apology. I did feel you are a bit nit picky on a few things and I do understand it can be frustrating to see people say things and ask things that could be solved by a quick forum search. Patience with people is hard sometimes.
What I meant by “having nothing left to blame” is simply saying, when you have no answer and have exhausted your own knowledge of something, it seems logical to blame or ‘deduce’ the problem is the source, in this case Opensuse.

I think you make sense to the must but not the maybe since the maybe could be the right answer.
But I understand what your saying.

In regards to the issue i was having; I found out the problem is not the hard drive.
I have been running Opensuse for a week now with no apparent issues. Though I haven’t done much on it other than install updates, one application, and browse the net. But doing just that in the past with 12.1 would get file system errors. so the question now is, what changed about my system or installation that has made it perform better? The updates? or changing the time on my clock?

On Thu, 05 Apr 2012 05:16:03 +0000, rain922 wrote:

> What I meant by “having nothing left to blame” is simply saying, when
> you have no answer and have exhausted your own knowledge of something,
> it seems logical to blame or ‘deduce’ the problem is the source, in this
> case Opensuse.

Again, though, if you make the assumption that lots of people are using
openSUSE without this particular issue, the software is not likely to
‘blame’. Just because you’ve exhausted your knowledge, doesn’t mean
“blame” needs to be assigned.

> I think you make sense to the must but not the maybe since the
> maybe
> could be the right answer.
> But I understand what your saying.

That’s what I was hoping for. :slight_smile:

> In regards to the issue i was having; I found out the problem is not the
> hard drive.
> I have been running Opensuse for a week now with no apparent issues.

Outstanding, I’m glad it’s working for you now. :slight_smile: It could well be
something was fixed in an update - a kernel update, perhaps, with a fix
that affected your hardware.

Jim

Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

On 2012-04-05 07:16, rain922 wrote:

> But doing just that in the past with
> 12.1 would get file system errors. so the question now is, what changed
> about my system or installation that has made it perform better? The
> updates? or changing the time on my clock?

The wrong clock is documented to cause that problem.

See here


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” at Telcontar)

That was quite interesting to read, thanks for posting that.
So basically it was OpenSuse. It misconfigured the clock at install.
Once I manually set it correctly and edited it, no issues.
cheers!