Is my lack of progress with Linux just me?

English Soapbox
1

(continued from my frustrated plea for help in the “install” subforum)

I’m going to probably move any future posts over to the soap box.

…but in regards to my messages - I do have R and Matlab on my windows computer, but they are also script-centric: I have to get back to writing code to make them work. It’s the same deal with the seismic software packages. I have to write code and scripts in order to define my vectors and vector fields, and matrices. I have to hand-edit my seismic event files and assemble the pick tables, then run the processes. It’s like, 1968-style batch processing on an IBM 360, except I don’t have to create a punch card.

I’ve yet to get past the simple stuff and even plot anything, because the little details trip me up. Permissions, commas in the wrong place, symantics. Odd stuff that requires hours of troubleshooting. Ill-defined arrays that worked for one researcher on his computer but not mine because some obscure file somewhere in the include directory might have a system dependency… That stuff prevents me from getting anything done. I want to study how seismic energy reflects and refracts within the earth, and I want to merge seismic array data to images those crustal structures. I want to see the relationships, look for trapped bits of ancient oceanic crust sandwiched within granitic continental crust within an accreted terrane, map the conrad discontinuity, determine if the moho is tilted, flat, folded, whatever… I want to use linux as a TOOL to these study these phenomena, not simply study Linux.

–
Okay, since my last post, I have tried to figure out how to share a directory between this linux machine and my windows computer. I have struck out and wasted 45 minutes. I created a modified fstab, sourced from the /etc/fstab file and you think I could figure out how to re-write it back? No. It’s a permissions problem. I can log in as superuser from a command window but can’t figure out how to copy the new file over into the /etc directory. That is my continual frustration with linux. So many myriad , niggling tiny details that one must memorize in order to get anything done. DO I need to re-learn VI? Do I need to remember how to use cp and rn and re-learn the precise symantics of those commands? Is there no way to adjust permissions from the Dolphin GUI? All I want to do is create a persistent shared directory where I can park common files between the computers, then establish a link to my printer on my network. I’m poring over the documentation, seen several methods listed, but the tiny details prevent me from employing any of them.

It’s 45-minutes here, an hour there, every single time I need to use Linux which is why I’m so frustrated. Every day, even my weekends, since the middle of 2011 have been like this and I’m seriously ready to quit. Why others aren’t experiencing these problems is exactly the reason I have begun to think it’s me - I’ve wasted hundreds, if not thousands of hours struggling with this. --almost feel like I’m trying to learn how to speak, read, and write Chinese by watching Chinese commercial television.

By the way. I used to like computer programming. I used to happily create all kinds of BASIC programs, PASCAL (remember Borland?), and I even tried my hand at writing WAT-IV and Fortran-IV on punchcards with a vintage IBM360 before they decommissioned it. Usually the stuff worked. I wrote a bit of stuff on a DEC PDP-11, and even restored a Dec micro-VAX with help from the VAX users group - however it was painful to figure out, and once everything was fully functional, I sold off the whole project - The miniVAX, and the microvax workstations, the huge monitors, the lot.

What I need help with is how to THINK in such a way that it doesn’t cost me tens of hours to use this tool. If Linux was a screwdriver, I’d spend ten hours troubleshooting why the darned thing didn’t fit into the slot on the top of the screw which looked PLAINLY visible ~

Rant over. for now ~ I’m shutting down and think I’ll go sweep out the garage, beat on some random piece of metal with a hammer, or go weld something! ANYTHING!

2

On Thu 09 May 2013 01:26:01 PM CDT, ws6transam wrote:

(continued from my frustrated plea for help in the “install” subforum)

I’m going to probably move any future posts over to the soap box.

…but in regards to my messages - I do have R and Matlab on my
windows computer, but they are also script-centric: I have to get back
to writing code to make them work. It’s the same deal with the seismic
software packages. I have to write code and scripts in order to define
my vectors and vector fields, and matrices. I have to hand-edit my
seismic event files and assemble the pick tables, then run the
processes. It’s like, 1968-style batch processing on an IBM 360, except
I don’t have to create a punch card.

I’ve yet to get past the simple stuff and even plot anything, because
the little details trip me up. Permissions, commas in the wrong place,
symantics. Odd stuff that requires hours of troubleshooting. Ill-defined
arrays that worked for one researcher on his computer but not mine
because some obscure file somewhere in the include directory might have
a system dependency… That stuff prevents me from getting anything
done. I want to study how seismic energy reflects and refracts within
the earth, and I want to merge seismic array data to images those
crustal structures. I want to see the relationships, look for trapped
bits of ancient oceanic crust sandwiched within granitic continental
crust within an accreted terrane, map the conrad discontinuity,
determine if the moho is tilted, flat, folded, whatever… I want to
use linux as a TOOL to these study these phenomena, not simply study
Linux.

–
Okay, since my last post, I have tried to figure out how to share a
directory between this linux machine and my windows computer. I have
struck out and wasted 45 minutes. I created a modified fstab, sourced
from the /etc/fstab file and you think I could figure out how to
re-write it back? No. It’s a permissions problem. I can log in as
superuser from a command window but can’t figure out how to copy the new
file over into the /etc directory. That is my continual frustration with
linux. So many myriad , niggling tiny details that one must memorize in
order to get anything done. DO I need to re-learn VI? Do I need to
remember how to use cp and rn and re-learn the precise symantics of
those commands? Is there no way to adjust permissions from the Dolphin
GUI? All I want to do is create a persistent shared directory where I
can park common files between the computers, then establish a link to my
printer on my network. I’m poring over the documentation, seen several
methods listed, but the tiny details prevent me from employing any of
them.

It’s 45-minutes here, an hour there, every single time I need to use
Linux which is why I’m so frustrated. Every day, even my weekends, since
the middle of 2011 have been like this and I’m seriously ready to quit.
Why others aren’t experiencing these problems is exactly the reason I
have begun to think it’s me - I’ve wasted hundreds, if not thousands of
hours struggling with this. --almost feel like I’m trying to learn how
to speak, read, and write Chinese by watching Chinese commercial
television.

By the way. I used to like computer programming. I used to happily
create all kinds of BASIC programs, PASCAL (remember Borland?), and I
even tried my hand at writing WAT-IV and Fortran-IV on punchcards with a
vintage IBM360 before they decommissioned it. Usually the stuff worked.
I wrote a bit of stuff on a DEC PDP-11, and even restored a Dec
micro-VAX with help from the VAX users group - however it was painful to
figure out, and once everything was fully functional, I sold off the
whole project - The miniVAX, and the microvax workstations, the huge
monitors, the lot.

What I need help with is how to THINK in such a way that it doesn’t
cost me tens of hours to use this tool. If Linux was a screwdriver, I’d
spend ten hours troubleshooting why the darned thing didn’t fit into the
slot on the top of the screw which looked PLAINLY visible ~

Rant over. for now ~ I’m shutting down and think I’ll go sweep out the
garage, beat on some random piece of metal with a hammer, or go weld
something! ANYTHING!

Hi
Not sure on KDE, but with the Gnome Shell it’s settings->sharing->turn
on->Personal File Sharing->turn on and done… I would imaging there is
something similar in the settings somewhere.

For printing I can use google cloud printing (client/server software).
I also use an apple airport extreme device that has a print server, then
setup the printer via a socket connection with cups
(http://localhost:631).

–
Cheers Malcolm °¿° (Linux Counter #276890)
openSUSE 12.3 (x86_64) Kernel 3.7.10-1.4-desktop
up 2 days 11:11, 3 users, load average: 0.02, 0.04, 0.05
CPU Intel® i5 CPU M520@2.40GHz | GPU Intel® Arrandale

3

What I need help with is how to THINK in such a way that it doesn’t cost me tens of hours to use this tool. If Linux was a screwdriver, I’d spend ten hours troubleshooting why the darned thing didn’t fit into the slot on the top of the screw which looked PLAINLY visible ~

lol! This is good. I do not think it is just you who has these problems. If R, matlab or your seismic software run any better on the Other OS I would just start running them and forget Linux. If you calculate the money spent with fiddling around on Linux you could have already bought a Mac and be done with it. I myself am currently moving my productive software back to Windows 7 OS because the software on Linux is just not reliable and I already bought windows years ago. If I had the money I would be back on the Apple OS and using all that software.

The other thing you could do is hire someone to do all the software OS stuff for you so you can get on with your research.

4

I do not know were you live, but I think a fair amount of your trouble
with Linux comes from the situation that you have nobody at your place
who can just go with you through the basic tasks you need to get done
one by one sitting next to you and showing you how to do it in an easy way.
Not that I say that everything you want to do has an easy equivalent
which can be done within the graphical user interface, but most can be done.
So probably you can find a Linux User Group somewhere near around you
where people are willing to give you an individual hands on help to make
your experience more pleasant. Google for it. No forum, no howto or
technical doc can ever replace having a person sitting together with you
at the machine and give direct help and introduction to have a good
starting point to proceed on your own.

My impression is that you use the command line and direct editing of
configuration files in situations were you do not really need to do that
and introduce avoidable pain yourself.

As for what you mention about the scientific applications, that is not
really something Linux or Unix specific. To have them using scripts and
configuration files meant to be hand coded is for every such system a
design decision by the individual developer group or company which
produces them and the scientific community of users of that systems.

I am not sure how difficult or easy you make your own life, most people
I know who are using R (just to pick an example) prefer to use Rstudio
as a graphical development environment. Of course this does not write
the code for you but leverages to a certain degree that task and has
also some support for directly analyzing data.

With seismic software I am not experienced, it is not my field.

Someone else mentioned in your other thread that maybe openSUSE is not
the right choice for you and I tend a little bit to agree. Consider
Linux Mint as a very beginner friendly or since you are not really a
beginner as a very friendly distro for people who do not want to
directly look into the innards of Linux for the easier tasks.
As you mentioned your seismic software is available for Debian based
systems there is a fair chance it works there.

Whatever you decide - I wish you success.

–
PC: oS 12.3 x86_64 | i7-2600@3.40GHz | 16GB | KDE 4.10.2 | GTX 650 Ti
ThinkPad E320: oS 12.3 x86_64 | i3@2.30GHz | 8GB | KDE 4.10.3 | HD 3000
HannsBook: oS 12.3 x86_64 | SU4100@1.3GHz | 2GB | KDE 4.10.2 | GMA4500

5

On 2013-05-09, ws6transam <ws6transam@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
>
> (continued from my frustrated plea for help in the “install” subforum)

I will not respond to your general points of frustration but give specific indicators that may help.

On 2013-05-09, ws6transam <ws6transam@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
> I’ve yet to get past the simple stuff and even plot anything, because
> the little details trip me up. Permissions, commas in the wrong place,
> symantics. Odd stuff that requires hours of troubleshooting. Ill-defined
> arrays that worked for one researcher on his computer but not mine
> because some obscure file somewhere in the include directory might have
> a system dependency…

I’m sorry but this appears to be nothing more than poor coding. If paths are hard-coded for Windows they obviously won’t
work in Linux. MATLAB has a useful function (e.g. isunix, ispc, ismac) that allows platform-dependent path
specification, although I must admit MATLAB’s set-path specification rubbish (although I don’t use MATLAB anyway except
to maintain legacy code).

> Okay, since my last post, I have tried to figure out how to share a
> directory between this linux machine and my windows computer.

Use CIFS for reading Windows shares from Linux machines. I’ve never tried the other way round, and nor would I want to.

> I have
> struck out and wasted 45 minutes. I created a modified fstab, sourced
> from the /etc/fstab file and you think I could figure out how to
> re-write it back? No.

Make a backup before modifying system files?

> It’s a permissions problem. I can log in as
> superuser from a command window but can’t figure out how to copy the new
> file over into the /etc directory.


sudo cp file.ext /etc/

(not something I would recommend).

That is my continual frustration with
linux. So many myriad , niggling tiny details that one must memorize in
order to get anything done.

It takes time. But it takes longer with openSUSE for newcomers.

DO I need to re-learn VI?

You never learnt VI if you ever have to `relearn’ it because it once you learn it, it stays with you forever (like
driving). But the answer is no you don’t need to learn vi/vim. If you use KDE use kate, and if you use GNOME use gedit.
If you need to edit a file as superuser you from KDE you can always:


kdesu kate file.ext

… and if you insist of a console editor, you can always use nano.

Do I need to
remember how to use cp and rn and re-learn the precise symantics of
those commands?

C’mon cp' isn't anything like as complex as your average MATLAB function (although I've never heard of rn’).

> Is there no way to adjust permissions from the Dolphin
> GUI? All I want to do is create a persistent shared directory where I
> can park common files between the computers, then establish a link to my
> printer on my network. I’m poring over the documentation, seen several
> methods listed, but the tiny details prevent me from employing any of
> them.

You should start by learning to walk before running. File sharing between network-linked computers is running for you.
Begin by copying your files (or only those you need) to get you going, and once you’ve started, you’ll slowly break the
ice.

> It’s 45-minutes here, an hour there, every single time I need to use
> Linux which is why I’m so frustrated. Every day, even my weekends, since
> the middle of 2011 have been like this and I’m seriously ready to quit.

There’s nothing wrong with quiting if you can do everything you need to do in Windows. You can always come back later.

> Why others aren’t experiencing these problems is exactly the reason I
> have begun to think it’s me - I’ve wasted hundreds, if not thousands of
> hours struggling with this.

It’s because you’re trying to do everything at once. Start simple, and not at the deep end with openSUSE (although
Gentoo is still deeper). Use Ubuntu/Mint for a bit for email/browsing. Install some packages (including MATLAB and R)
and play around. Once you’ve found your feet it gets a lot easier. Then you can come back to openSUSE.

> What I need help with is how to THINK in such a way that it doesn’t
> cost me tens of hours to use this tool.

Correct. Do things the Linux way. That means start simple, and use what you only need to use. Then expand but stay
within certain bounds until those bounds are within your comfort zone. Then repeat. And repeat again… and again…
etc…

6

> Not sure on KDE, but with the Gnome Shell it’s settings->sharing->turn
> on->Personal File Sharing->turn on and done… I would imaging there is
> something similar in the settings somewhere.

KDE

From Dolphin>Right click dir folder to share>Properties>Share Tab.

7

This is a little bit strange comment when the OP just wants to share a folder between computers and print to a common networked printer. I would consider those two items to be simple on any other OS and on Linux they are not.
For example, someone talks about using Airport Extreme router usb printer function but gives a different default ip address than on my Airport Extreme which is your.airport.gateway.ip.address:9101.
So why should a person have to know this or why do we have to google for hours to find this information.

I think these are the little things that drive people away from Linux but it is not Linux fault or openSUSE or whoever. There are not enough resources available to keep up with all this stuff and build them into the OS unless you are going to charge for it, simple as that.
I am always amazed at what does work and get done in Linux without direct contribution from vendors etc…

8

@op - Forums are here to help you resolve many of the issue you spend wasting time. On encountering any issue you should open a thread and get the resolution. That is all there is to it.

9

There is even the Dolphin GUI with power over all: Kickoff menu > Applications > System > File Manager > File Manager - Super User Mode

Worth spending a few minutes to get to know what’s in the main menu, since most GUI-based apps start from there. :slight_smile:

10

On 2013-05-09 18:56, anika200 wrote:
> This is a little bit strange comment when the OP just wants to share a
> folder between computers and print to a common networked printer. I
> would consider those two items to be simple on any other OS and on Linux
> they are not.

Look, I have a networked printer here, and I use it from any computer.
Adding it is just a breeze, be it Linux or Windows. I just use the
configuration tool of that operating system, and tell them to find the
printer that is on 192.168.3.5, done.

That is because I invested in buying a LAN printer from the start.

If, on the other hand, the printer is connected via usb cable to a
computer, then there are different methods to share that printer to
other computers in the network, either with Linux or Windows. You have
to plan a bit ahead what you want to use. In Linux you can do it with
CUPS, or you can share it using samba.

Some documents:

Samba and Suse:
HowTo Set up an openSUSE-Windows Home Office LAN/Network.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 “Asparagus” at Telcontar)

11

On 2013-05-09 15:26, ws6transam wrote:
>
> (continued from my frustrated plea for help in the “install” subforum)

If you are used to Windows, Linux is difficult. If you are used to
Linux, Windows is difficult. Believe me, and I come from the Windows
world, I find it easier to configure Linux that Windows.

But then, I could do nothing with those tools you talk about to see
inside of the crust. Not my field, but yours.

In an ideal world, somebody like me would go to your lab, setup the
computers for you, and I would not need to do anything more. You’d
simply work with you scientific software and do your job. If you have a
problem with the network, sharing files or printer, call me, I go, and I
solve it. You concentrate on what you know best.

In a real world that costs money… so you have to learn to do it
yourself, at least enough to come here to a forum like this one where
you can find volunteers to answer your questions gratis :slight_smile:

(I would prefer being paid, mind :wink: )

> Okay, since my last post, I have tried to figure out how to share a
> directory between this linux machine and my windows computer.

Typically, you just enter the IP of the other computer in the file
browser of your desktop, and it will ask for your credentials. It is not
a permanent shared folder, just for the current session, but you have
access.

Otherwise… use yast to set samba client.

Samba and Suse:
HowTo Set up an openSUSE-Windows Home Office LAN/Network.

Chapter 19. Samba

> I have
> struck out and wasted 45 minutes. I created a modified fstab, sourced
> from the /etc/fstab file and you think I could figure out how to
> re-write it back? No. It’s a permissions problem. I can log in as
> superuser from a command window but can’t figure out how to copy the new
> file over into the /etc directory.

In a terminal, you can use ‘mc’, aka midnight commander. Similar to the
old Norton Commander for MsDos. You can do a lot of things with it, even
connect to remote computers. You have to install ‘mc’ first.

> DO I need to re-learn VI?

No :slight_smile:

I’ve never used vi for more than change a line or two, and only if it is
the only editor available. I use it only till I can install something
else. If I need a text editor in console, I use joe or mcedit. For more
complex editing, like code, there are many graphical based editors, just
choose one you like.

(old unix hands will hate me for saying that :-p )

(you mention Pascal and Borland - we have Lazarus, similar to Delphi.
Not the same thing, though, it lags behind. But… it is is free)

> then establish a link to my
> printer on my network. I’m poring over the documentation, seen several
> methods listed, but the tiny details prevent me from employing any of
> them.

Go to the networking forum, and ask how to share a printer. Give details
of what you have. Let us help you.

> Rant over. for now ~ I’m shutting down and think I’ll go sweep out the
> garage, beat on some random piece of metal with a hammer, or go weld
> something! ANYTHING!

Believe me, I understand you. :slight_smile:

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 “Asparagus” at Telcontar)