A good solution for users with legacy hardware, a nightmare for folks with new (not even released yet) hardware…
I have a Intel N100 system (released first quarter 2023) here running MicroOS and won’t have iwlwifi support until kernel 3.5 AFAIK… not an issue for me as only need ethernet.
Spin up a virtual machine and start playing and planning now…
My problem with the move from highly managed to zero managed distributions (where the end user does it all) is that distribution choice is pretty much “anything” (whatever) at that point.
It sounds “cool”, but maybe the concept will kill everything…
Use MicroOS, or… any number of the myriad of others out there.
Red Hat’s dropping of LibreOffice support in favor or user managed LO, a sign of really bad (stupid) things to come. Or… maybe we all start managing everything on our own and somehow learn to “love it”. I could see this as the end of enterprise linux and a return to an OS that is managed, even poorly, like Windows.
I get sick of the developer crowd (that only sees 3 feet forward and never today) that’s pushing this. I’d never hire any of you. You’re trying to create a world of extreme pain. And a world void of Linux distributions. Let’s keep Linux being useful to world instead of a niche platform for the elite developer community.
I installed MicroOS, and it’s odd. Several programs were installed, however they are inoperable. It is really challenging to use. I installed mlocate using transaction-update since I can’t fathom living without it, but neither the shell nor rpm -ql recognize it as installed. Additionally, the default installation uses a lot of space in my vm and creates an enormous /var.
I doubt I’ll be able to utilize MicroOS for much but exploring the web and doing some desk work. All of openSUSE’s distinctive features, such as YaST and zypper, will eventually be eliminated by MicroOS. In addition, I’m unsure if I can use that as a base for a middlebox, router, webserver, or mailserver.
@coldboot install cockpit-ws? Podman, Distrobox and Flatpaks all as your user?
Although I can do that, generally one can install cockpit using zypper on a regular system and run it via systemd without involving a podman broker, so doing so would be like adding another layer of complexity. Through the transaction-update shell, I can access certain installed tui apps, but I am unable to use them from the user prompt.
The transaction-update shell is executed as root. I’m not sure why I can’t access tui applications as a regular user.
Most likely, because you haven’t rebooted into the new snapshot. So the running system has no idea that you’ve installed anything.
i.e. You’re booted into Snapshot_1
You ran transactional-update pkg in foo Which then snapshots Snapshot_1 and generates Snapshot_2, which the running system knows nothing about.
If you then run transactional-update pkg in bar It then snapshots Snapshot_1 again, and generates Snapshot_3, which will not include anything that is in Snapshot_2.
The system is transactional, it’s why it’s called “transactional-update” Any changes you make with it, are not applied to the running system, and are not usable, until you reboot into the new snapshot.
Although I don’t really think this line of discussion belongs here, it should be under it’s own thread.
I got that, rebooted thrice already but it doesn’t work.
Ubuntu is currently funded by Canonical and Mint is based on Ubuntu.
All Canonical is also going ALP like MicroOS. So Mint might also be ALP when Leap 16 is released.
So far Tumbleweed seems to be the only non ALP that is left. Even Fedora (owned by IBM now) is looking at ALP.
I use ALP interchangeably with Immutable Linux.
Maybe they can have a LTR of Tumbleweed that is only updated every 6 months when ALP is the norm.
Wat means ALP sorry i am dutch.
Adaptable Linux Platform.
It will be unfortunate if Leap gets rebased around ALP.
As of now, Leap is the only viable escape from Ubuntu LTS, primarily because it does not push Snaps or limit package updates to a paid plan.
Linux Mint is a viable alternative, but it’s essentially the same old Ubuntu, minus the snaps. It’s even slower too considering all of its exclusive programs and services are written in Python.
I salute the openSUSE team for going with another non-ALP release though (15.6), I’m really glad they listened.
@cjcox Hi, the only thing that is set in stone is the fact it’s btrfs, sure you can let the os do it’s thing, but as per linux there is nothing what so ever to a user disabling that auto reboot etc, you can install rpms from the repo, you can tweak configs (that’s a given anyway), you can manually update. Just like folks that add a gazillion non standard repos to Leap because that want package foo (which is what flatpaks are for and distrobox if it’s not).
Sure it’s not as intended, but you can still do it…
It used to come on floppy disks and there was lilo; then there were CDs and grub; then there were DVDs and openSUSE and grub2; then there was Leap … perhaps the developers should see it as a great compliment that such a recent manifestation of their work is now a ‘classic.’
I call it a ‘classic’ because it maintains the spirit of FOSS while avoiding fascist policies. I can’t think of another Linux distribution that allows for so much customization right from the start.
The ALP keeps some characteristics, but IMO it is a distribution geared at bureaucrats.
I’m just pointing out the trend to “user chaos”, which by perception is what the user thinks he wants, until it all goes to crap. It’s a general statement of a “trend”. I just disagree with that trend becoming not merely a “user” thing, but something advocated by the people who, at least “we think”, are responsible for trying to hold things together. IMHO, it’s a dangerous trend towards a train wreck and as fun as they are to watch, they should be avoided. I’d say “prove me wrong”, but honestly, if I’m right, there will be nothing left… and everyone will “move on” to “whatever”. It will just be a sad day, as I really like Linux. Time will tell. I’m concerned.
@cjcox I guess one of the issues I see is folks not planning ahead. It’s not like these changes are new, MicroOS/ALP has been in the works for over 18 months now…
I see more issues will arise from a hardware perspective going forward that will annoy folks more, I have hardware here that has wifi that won’t work even with the 6.3 kernel (not an issue for me)…
Flooded away from home for a year, and only able use my ubuntu laptop.
Returned end of January, then took 4 months to get my inernet back on.
Need decide whether to keep Leap trying to get my in storage opensuse machines back up and running.
I dislike btrfs, as found for myself it made things more difficult.
My preference is Gnome, used mostly on Leap and Ubuntu.
Like ext4 file systems as they seem easier to run different linux versions.
Share concern proposed changes may make things difficult, particularly for learners…
How? It’s only a problem, if something changes, for people that don’t want to learn. Everytime you switch distributions, there are minor differences that have a learning curve. When you go from Windows, to MacOS, to Linux, to BSD, to Android, iOS or QNX, or just update to a new release of any of those things I just listed, there’s a learning curve. Software is constantly in active development, and things change.
The only people change is a problem for, is those people that don’t want to learn.
Not every person has the same use case. Running some applications in an immutable system is really challenging. Giving people options and letting them select the elements they want to modify would be a good strategy.
That sounds like a pretty good match for Tumbleweed.
