I do all my updating via zypper (on the command line) so I was thinking of removing packagekit, is this ok or will it cause issues?
The reviewer of 12.2 at Distrowatch (published Monday) Did just that, but IIRC found that losing apper was the only issue. Take a look at it before deciding. 
IMHO not. I did not install Apper at the installation. Thus I guess PackageKit is sitting there doing nothing. At least I hope it does nothing, because when it does do something, it will block YaST > Software/zypper and those are not blocked.
All packagekit stuff is the first I remove after a fresh install. Only using zypper for package management and therefore apper/packagekit is annoying and total needless for me.
Just finished a clean install of 12.2 using the net install version in an attempt to get only what I wanted. After the reboot, I attempted to use the Yast patch update and it flat out wouldn’t start because it said PackageKit wouldn’t let it. It got no response to the request to stop it. I wound up using the kill command against the PID. Yast then was able to get going on the patches. Removed PackageKit. After that, all updating of patches and software selections via Yast worked fine.
Mike Cebula
Apper & Packagekit are simply not needed in openSUSE.
For the novice/unawares: Apper is just a frontend to PackageKit, and PackageKit is, itself, a frontend to ZYpp, the underlying package management engine used in openSUSE (for while now; read: 10 releases).
If you are comfortable manually handling all the PM updating, then you are well served via the “zypper” command line interface to ZYpp or through the Yast SM module … I find the pair very complementary for performing the overall task.
In your opinion… However,some users coming from other distros are familiar with having at least an update notifier on the desktop, and openSUSE now includes apper.
The points you make have already been stated and discussed in another recent thread with a more appropriate title for that.
[quote=“consused,post:7,topic:83545”]
In your opinion.[/QUOTE]No, its a statement of fact, which goes to answering the OP’s original question: “I was thinking of removing packagekit, is this ok or will it cause issues?”
However,some users coming from other distros are familiar with having at least an update notifier on the desktop, and openSUSE now includes apper.
Yes, of course. And while I did not spell it out for anyone, I did make my opinion (which most certainly wasn’t a non sequitur to the statement of fact) fairly clear and prefixed with an appropriate qualifier: "If you are comfortable manually handling all the PM updating, then blah blah blah <insert foam and spit emanating from my keyboard here> blah blah blah "
The points you make have already been stated and discussed in another recent thread with a more appropriate title for that.
I don’t get it – you raised some objection to my post seemingly from the mistaken believe that I’ve not addressed the requirements of users new to openSUSE, yet, upon providing some most basic of info for the newbie, you pooh pooh it as being old hat and having already been discussed somewhere else … (a.k.a. speaking of non sequiturs) rotfl!
If apper would be just an update notifier it were ok. But it locks zypp permanently and that is not good. I’m absolutely not familiar with apper/packagekit because I remove it immediately. So I’m not sure whether apper can all the things that can be done by zypper or yast. All instructions I’ve read are written for zypper or yast. So a newbie will get into trouble the first time he is using zypper or yast because of the lock from zypp by apper and he does not know what to do.
Debians KDE desktop has also an update notifier. But he locks nothing, so you are just informed and can use the usual package management tools.
So apper is needed by some users, and I guess that is why the devs included it in openSUSE. Not only does the statement “simply not needed in openSUSE” sound like an opinion, it’s wrong since it has a role in openSUSE to satisfy those who need/prefer it. Instead you could have addressed the question directly as to whether apper and packagekit could be safely removed, as the other posts did.
That didn’t happen on my 12.2 system. There was a transient problem with apper/packagekit just after iinstallation, but it cleared with the next reboot. Since then I used apper to install a mixture of patches for 12.2 and updates from Packman. with no problems, and will continue to test it. It seems to provide adequate information for that relatively straightforward job.
So I’m not sure whether apper can all the things that can be done by zypper or yast.
Probably not, and I don’t expect to use it for any complex package management, just regular updating.
All instructions I’ve read are written for zypper or yast. So a newbie will get into trouble the first time he is using zypper or yast because of the lock from zypp by apper and he does not know what to do.
The “lock” works both ways, zypper/yast will prevent apper/packagekit from starting. It should only be a temporary “lock”. I agree it might confuse a newbie for a while, but worse things happen at sea. The newbie can ask in the forum, if unable to fix it alone.
It actually seems like the first time packagekit is let run to completion it takes half an hour to an hour to get it’s head on straight while refreshing and after that it only takes a minute or two to refresh.
On 2012-10-04 18:06, zerum wrote:
> If apper would be just an update notifier it were ok. But it locks zypp
> permanently and that is not good.
No, that is not true, it is temporarily.
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 “Asparagus” at Telcontar)
So apper is needed by some users[/quote]Your putting words into my mouth. I said “Yes, of course” to your two points:
- some users coming from other distros are familiar with having at least an update notifier on the desktop
- and openSUSE now includes apper.
So apper is needed by some users and I guess that is why the devs included it in openSUSE.
Again, its not needed by anyone. Its inclusion, however, may be beneficial to to some users (maybe even many, many users! And maybe really, really beneficial!!). And upon those grounds, perhaps that is why it was/is packaged. I do not know.
Not only does the statement “simply not needed in openSUSE” sound like an opinion, it’s wrong since it has a role in openSUSE to satisfy those who need/prefer it. Instead you could have addressed the question directly as to whether apper and packagekit could be safely removed, as the other posts did.
I could have done a lot of things…have a nice day!
Your words, and that there is the problem. It’s not your call (or mine) to dictate other users’ needs. In that other thread I mentioned earlier, there is at least one user who believes he wants(or needs] the simple approach offered by apper. Yes, it is included in openSUSE to satisfy that need.
…have a nice day!
You too.
Thanks for the clarification. In general I prefer commandline tools for package management. So I don’t like stuff as apper very much and remove them if they disrupt. If I understood it correct apper only locks zypp the first time running for a considerable time (why for such a long time? own database?). Thereafter the time apper locks is not significant. Is this correct?
There can only be one tool active in software management at a time. Thus as long as a zypper command is running, any YaST > Software > usage will be blocked and v.v. Same for Apper. It was the same for the original notifier (some openSUSE levels ago). When it was active (once a day or what you configured it) to check for updates, it blocked zypper/ YaST > Software.
Why Apper does this for a longer time directly after install, I do not know. I never install it.
Yes, this is well known and comprehensible. Same with e.g. Debians apt: it can only be used from one tool at the same time.
That would interest me, too.
Yes, you have understood correctly what is being reported, now by several users across openSUSE forum. Apper releases the lock when it finishes the update(s).
Because I had already heard of the problem with apper/packagekit “locking zypp first time running”, I didn’t wait for that to finish. I just rebooted! After that, apper is working as expected.
I used it again yesterday to apply two patches, at least one of those required a system restart. Apper notified me about that via its panel icon and also a KDE notification. A user couldn’t possibly miss seeing that need for a restart. So far it’s ok.
On 2012-10-05 10:36, zerum wrote:
> If I understood it correct apper only locks zypp
> the first time running for a considerable time (why for such a long
> time? own database?).
Probably a bug.
> Thereafter the time apper locks is not
> significant. Is this correct?
Right. And although I have not conclusively tested this, I believe that if you start
zypper/yast right after apper has finished, they will download fast skipping repository
refresh, because they are already refreshed and the database is the same.
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 “Asparagus” at Telcontar)