Installing additional software using Yast2

Hi All,

I have installed openSUSE-13.2 with Gnome Desktop on my Dell Inspiron-15 series 3000, laptop. It is dual booting with Windows 7 Pro. The system is working quite well for my purpose. But when I try to install an additional software with Yast2 e.g. ‘obexftp’ for working with Bluetooth, I am presented with another window saying: “In addition to your manual selection the following packages have changed to resolve dependencies:”. And the list includes about 100 packages including such packages as ‘gnucash’ and its related ‘gnucash-doc’ and ‘gnucash-lang’ thus adding hundreds of MB’s to the system leading to slow boot and work. I do not need those “additional” packages. I fail to understand how installing ‘obexftp’ a small package in itself, depends upon installation of ‘gnucash’ and ‘kde-artwork’ for that matter.

I would be happy to be advised by others who know better. Is it possible to install additional packages without incurring the above mentioned burden on the system?

Your help would be very much appreciated.

Best Wishes @ Regards,

RSP2

Not quite.
They would take up space, but they wouldn’t slow down boot or work.
This is not Windows… >:)

I do not need those “additional” packages. I fail to understand how installing ‘obexftp’ a small package in itself, depends upon installation of ‘gnucash’ and ‘kde-artwork’ for that matter.

obexftp doesn’t.
But other packages that you have already installed recommend those packages. The default is to install all recommended packages, so YaST automatically marks them for installation.

Is it possible to install additional packages without incurring the above mentioned burden on the system?

Yes.
Enable the Option “Ignore recommended packages for already installed packages” in YaST’s “Options” menu.
It would still install recommended packages for packages you install new though, but you should be able to easily deselect them if you want.

If that doesn’t satisfy you, you could also set “solver.onlyRequires = true” in /etc/zypp/zypp.conf to never automatically install any recommended package (only required ones). This would also affect zypper btw.
But be aware that probably not all functionality is available/working in applications you install, if the recommended packages are not installed as well. OTOH, you can always install ones you miss manually.

Hi Wolfi323 the Forum Moderator,

Thanks a million for your detailed reply. I have applied the suggested amendments both to Yast2 as well as to ‘zypper.conf’. I am sure this will help.

Grateful for your promptness.

Thanks & Regards,

RSP2

On 2014-11-09 10:26, rsp2 wrote:
>
> Hi Wolfi323 the Forum Moderator,
>
> Thanks a million for your detailed reply. I have applied the suggested
> amendments both to Yast2 as well as to ‘zypper.conf’. I am sure this
> will help.

Notice that, specially if you install from the live gnome or kde isos,
they don’t contain the complete recommended list of packages, for lack
of space; thus the first time you try to use YaST to install something
it will try to also install the rest.

Disabling recommends except on new packages does the trick. But then you
will see that some application fails when trying to use some feature, or
it is grayed out, because it needs some optional thing that is not
installed.

Having all that installed should not slow down your machine. And you can
remove manually from the list the things that you are confident that you
do not need, like gnucash.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 13.1 x86_64 “Bottle” at Telcontar)

Hi Saludos,

Thanks a lot for replying to my query. I had installed 13.2 Gnome Desktop, from DVD ‘iso’. During installation I spent some time selecting the application packages that I needed. I had clicked the ‘Details’ tab that lists all the packages in each group indicating which ones were going to be installed. Hence, at that very time, I had deleted what I did not require. While deleting some packages Yast2 did protest dependencies to which I gave way and let those be installed. I had then consciously deleted packages such as ‘gnucash’, ‘kdeartwork’, all games, music and video players (I use MPlayer and smplayer) and a host of others. All that done my system is working pretty well and very fast with a reboot under 40 secs. But one does need certain additional utility software such as ‘gnome-user-share’ and ‘obexftp’ for additional functionality. That was where I observed the problem that I posed at the Forum. That has now been solved, kind courtesy persons such as yourself.

But cannot help mentioning a point that has been raking my brains for some time. I would like to mention it here since you are so very helpful. The issue is about overall design of openSUSE. I am not an expert but a long standing user of openSUSE. Why do the architects of this Distribution (I haven’t used others except made my own ‘BLFS’ once or twice, some time back) take sadistic pleasure in making things more difficult with every new version. For example, earlier that conventional design was simple for the users to operate; with gnome panel at the bottom into which one could add ones favourite application icons and could launch them quickly with just a click. Now in Gnome-3.14.1 they have shifted the panel to top but in that one cannot add application icons. To launch your favourite application, one has to first click the ‘Applications’ menu and the select and click your favourite to launch it. Another complication added is the ‘Activities’. To circumvent all that I had to waste so much time to configure and place the ‘favourite’ icons on my desktop and to obtain so many other working conveniences. I wonder if some one with some influence with the designers and other overall in-charges could convey these feelings from point of view of the users.

The other moot point is that why should the sotware design be made so much interdependent that even to install a small software one has to install large bundles of dependent software?

Sorry, if I have taken much of your time. But I thought it appropriate to express my grievances to the designers.

Thanks & Regards,

RSP2

i have noticed that myself: when i activate packman and installed vlc and smplayer, yast also installed a long list of packeges, among them, pepper flash, gimp, etc. etc. to my opinion, this is a faulty design. but other than this, the system works quite well.

The issue is about overall design of openSUSE. I am not an expert but a long standing user of openSUSE. Why do the architects of this Distribution (I haven’t used others except made my own ‘BLFS’ once or twice, some time back) take sadistic pleasure in making things more difficult with every new version. For example, earlier that conventional design was simple for the users to operate; with gnome panel at the bottom into which one could add ones favourite application icons and could launch them quickly with just a click. Now in Gnome-3.14.1 they have shifted the panel to top but in that one cannot add application icons. To launch your favourite application, one has to first click the ‘Applications’ menu and the select and click your favourite to launch it. Another complication added is the ‘Activities’. To circumvent all that I had to waste so much time to configure and place the ‘favourite’ icons on my desktop and to obtain so many other working conveniences. I wonder if some one with some influence with the designers and other overall in-charges could convey these feelings from point of view of the users.

No, the issue is not about the design of openSUSE. You’re describing the Gnome desktop environment. If you don’t like it, try another desktop environment. You can have more than installed concurrently. It’s all about choice.

Hi,

Yes. I am talking about the Gnome Desktop environment’s design. It has been complicated over the years to the disadvantage of the users at large as I have described in my reply above. You are right, it is a matter of choice. I had been a fan of KDE Desktop for long years. Then it went at a tangent on the same score at some point of earlier time. I then shifted to Gnome. I found it richer and better than KDE albeit after some configuration work. But now I have also tried KDE Desktop in openSUSE 13.2. It has improved considerably but still I did not find it as user-friendly as it used to be in long early period. Hence, switch to Gnome Desktop which, after all the configuration struggle, is more friendly to work with than KDE. My point is that it could have been so designed that it was more user-friendly. My observation is that the designers are aping Windows for wrong trends there. If they do need to follow it, then follow its user-friendliness not cosmetics. I am not an ardent admirer of Windows. In fact I detest working with it and that was why I shifted to Linux in late 1990’s. But you cannot touch the convenience of working with Windows and that was the singular great reason for its popularity and riches of Bill Gates. Linux Designers must make the Desktop design for convenience of average users who are notoriously called ‘dummies’. But there are very many professionals who are ‘dummy’ users of computers like doctors, engineers, accountants, even software engineers and so on. They do not have time to waste in configurations and so on. Hence, they shy away from linux just for this one factor of ‘convenience of working’.

The other point about the design was the vast inter-dependence of packages. I am not a software expert but having compiled my own ‘Linux From Scratch’-LFS and 'Beyond Linux From Scratch-BLFS for a number of time many years back, I do understand the interdependency of packages. But here in openSUSE, it seems to have gone a bit too far; as I had mentioned in my earlier post.

Anyhow, thanks for your interest.

Regards,

RSP2

Well, I already explained in this thread how you can prevent recommended packages from being installed automatically.

And no, this is not faulty design.
Recommended packages should be installed by default, because that’s how “recommended” packages are defined. Software might not offer all functions without them, which will lead to bug reports, especially from inexperienced users.
But again, you can configure that.
And you can uninstall recommended packages if you want to, as they are “only” recommended, not required.

If a package requires or recommends other things unnecessarily it is a bug in the package of course, but you cannot call that “a faulty design”.

Maybe that option “Ignore recommended packages for already installed packages” should be enabled by default in YaST (would probably help in the situation you describe, e.g. chromium-pepperflash was probably selected automatically because you already had chromium installed which recommends chromium-pepperflash), but there’s a bug report about that already IIRC.

no…
pepper-flash is being installed before chromium. i installed chromium myself afterward, after i saw that pepper flash. but i thing that peper flash is installed due to the fact that is used even by firefox.
but what about gimp? and maybe i don’t want to install gstreamer pack since i use vlc-phonon-backend (i woud like to see a :mplayer-phonon-backend, i know that is not maintained anymore).
i think that this thing with “recommended package” it’s quite confusing for a simple user.

No, pepper-flash is not used at all by firefox. Firefox doesn’t support pepper plugins (they are Google’s new invention), just as Chrome/chromium doesn’t support Netscape plugins any more.

Anyway that was just an example.
So maybe some other package or pattern you installed recommends it.

I didn’t get it installed on any of my systems ever.

but what about gimp?

Again, some other package or pattern recommends it apparently.
I have no idea which one, but gimp in particalar might even be in the default patterns. If you installed from a LiveCD, it’s probably no on there because of space restrictions, that’s why you get it installed afterwards.

and maybe i don’t want to install gstreamer pack since i use vlc-phonon-backend (i woud like to see a :mplayer-phonon-backend, i know that is not maintained anymore).

Well, gstreamer in particular is recommended or even required by many more packages than you might imagine.
E.g. Webkit and Firefox use it for HTML5 content.

i think that this thing with “recommended package” it’s quite confusing for a simple user.

A simple user should not have to care I’d say. That’s why “recommended packages” are installed by default, to make life easier for “simple users”.

okay, thanx a lot!

what is really strange for me is that firefox uses the 15.xxx flash instead of 11.2, or maybe i am wrong, i will check tonight. that is why i bring pepper flash in focus.

I’d say you are wrong. Unless they implemented pepper support recently without telling anybody… :wink:

That said, there seems to be a wrapper plugin available that would enable you to use pepperflash in Firefox:

But even if you installed that, it wouldn’t change the RPM dependencies.
If somebody created a package for that it might recommend or even require pepper-flash of course (but then, any other package might, as said).
I even found it on OBS: openSUSE Software , this requires google-chrome “only” though (which includes pepper-flash).

But we’re getting off-topic now I guess.

due to some problem with my recent usb modem, i was forced to do a re-installation of 13.2…but this time, when the packman was activated and also after install vlc and smplayer, the system did not install pepper flash. it installed flash 11.2 instead and the firefox now uses the the 11.2 flash, before this reinstall, it used to use flash 15.0.
i hope that this “issue” must be fixed one day.

On 2014-11-10 14:16, wolfi323 wrote:

>> and maybe i don’t want to install gstreamer pack since i use
>> vlc-phonon-backend (i woud like to see a :mplayer-phonon-backend, i know
>> that is not maintained anymore).
> Well, gstreamer in particular is recommended or even required by many
> more packages than you might imagine.

For instance, file browsers, for the preview and media info functionality.

> E.g. Webkit and Firefox use it for HTML5 content.
>
>> i think that this thing with “recommended package” it’s quite confusing
>> for a simple user.
> A simple user should not have to care I’d say. That’s why “recommended
> packages” are installed by default, to make life easier for “simple
> users”.

It is not an issue in Linux to install tons of things.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 13.1 x86_64 “Bottle” at Telcontar)

On 2014-11-10 08:36, rsp2 wrote:
> Sorry, if I have taken much of your time. But I thought it appropriate
> to express my grievances to the designers.

You are welcome, but very few designers read here.
We are fellow users :slight_smile:

If you don’t like the current gnome, try xfce. It is similar to what
gnome was.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 13.1 x86_64 “Bottle” at Telcontar)

Or try MATE:

This is a fork of GNOME2, and therefore is exactly like gnome was. :wink:

Packages are included in openSUSE since 13.2, in earlier versions you have to add an additional repo:
https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:MATE

On 2014-12-09 14:56, wolfi323 wrote:

> Or try MATE:
> http://mate-desktop.org/
>
> This is a fork of GNOME2, and therefore is exactly like gnome was. :wink:

Ah, yes, that is very interesting.

> Packages are included in openSUSE since 13.2,

And this makes it even more interesting. I noticed this today, reading
the release notes. I’m going to install it in my test machine (virtual).


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 13.1 x86_64 “Bottle” at Telcontar)