Installation fail by update from 11.1 to 12.1

English Install/Boot/Login
#1

I have a SUSE 11.1 install on a Pentium 4 2.5 GHZ. When I tried to install, it runs about 10% of the commands and a message come out. “Existing virtual environment present”, the screen turn black and the installation hang up without any progress for more than half hour until I interrupted the install. The system has two hard disk one with with SUSE 11.1 and the other a non bootable NTFS hard drive use as a storage drive. How do I upgrade my system without losing my existing system configuration?

I never this problem before in my eight years of using the SUSE.

Thanks

#2

Did you try a clean install or an upgrade? Seem to me it must have been an upgrade.

Jumping from 11.1 to 12.1 os is a huge jump and not in any way recommended. You need to do a clean install but tell the installer not to format just mount your home partition.

As to the specific error you quote I have not seen it before. But so not think I have seen anyone try to upgrade 11.1-12.1 before.

#3

On 01/20/2012 11:26 PM, gogalthorp wrote:
> Jumping from 11.1 to 12.1 os is a huge jump and not in any way
> recommended.

it is more than just “not recommended” it is also not supported…

the only two upgrade methods supported to 12.1 are from a fully updated
11.4, see:
http://tinyurl.com/35p966c
http://tinyurl.com/6kvoflv

so, i would expect 11.1 upgrade to 12.1 to fail every attempt.

on the other hand the OP says “SUSE 11.1” and wonder if that was meant
to openSUSE 11.1 or SUSE Linux Enterprise Server/Desktop 11 SP 1? in
either case i would expect an upgrade to 12.1 to always fail…

best plan to either step through each intermediate version, or do a
fresh format/install…

oh, there is one other alternate: extend the life of 11.1 by joining the
project Evergreen here http://tinyurl.com/4aflkpy

–
DD http://tinyurl.com/DD-Caveat
openSUSE®, the “German Engineered Automobiles” of operating systems!

#4

On 2012-01-20 22:46, cobad2000 wrote:
>
> I have a SUSE 11.1 install on a Pentium 4 2.5 GHZ.

There is no such thing as “SUSE 11.1”. There was an openSUSE 11.1, and SUSE
11 (SLES or SLED).

Please copy here the output of “cat /etc/SuSE-release”.

> When I tried to
> install, it runs about 10% of the commands and a message come out.

What exact procedure are you using to do the upgrade?

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” at Telcontar)

#5

As the OP says he updated/upgraded (in a further unspecified way) to openSUSE 12.1, I guess that “cat /etc/SuSE-release” will not show what he had before. But maybe the OP can go to a backup of his system “before …” and look there inside* /etc/SuSE-release*.

#6

On 2012-01-21 12:06, hcvv wrote:
> as the OP says he updated/upgraded (in a further unsecified way) to
> openSUSE 12.1, I guess that “cat /etc/SuSE-release” will not show what
> he had before. But maybe the OP can go to a backup of his system “before
> …” and look there inside- /etc/SuSE-release-.

You are right, I forgot. Well, who knows, the upgrade crashed.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” at Telcontar)

#7

On 01/21/2012 12:06 PM, hcvv wrote:
> as the OP says he updated/upgraded (in a further unsecified way) to
> openSUSE 12.1, I guess that “cat /etc/SuSE-release” will not show what
> he had before. But maybe the OP can go to a backup of his system “before
> …” and look there inside- /etc/SuSE-release-.

the way i read it s/he attempted an install (or upgrade, no one can tell
which) but it failed at the 10% mark…

so, depending on what actually happens in that first 10% of a 12.1
install/upgrade i guess /etc/SuSE-release might reveal any of:

-SLED 11
-SLES 11
-openSUSE 11.1
-openSUSE 12.1
-[empty]

or maybe neither /etc nor /etc/SuSE-release even exists…

–
DD
openSUSE®, the “German Engineered Automobiles” of operating systems!

#8

The operating system is openSuse 11.1. The new version Opensuse 12.1 dvd Iso was downloaded ISO from the opensuse.org web site. Insert the disk reboot the machine, the bootloader form the disc start the 12.1 menu with several options, one of them is install. Normally in the previous versions, a new menu to select a clean install or un upgrade came up. I usually select upgrade to save time for loading that many applications outside the Opensuse packages.

This time after the “install selection”, the system loads some commands all came with the green OK and after certain time the screen get black. The menu to select clean install or upgrade never show up.

I understand that upgrade from 11.1 to 12.1 is not supported or recommended or supported, but the installation should offer the option of a clean install.

Now, I am have to backup all my data shred my hard disk with a rescue kit. Then, with a blank hard disk a clean I will try a clean install.

Because all the installation steps are recorded in the virtual memory, there is not permanent record in the hard disk to study.

I hope that the next versions install versions will improve their behaivour.

Thanks for the help and the additional info.

#9

On 2012-01-22 05:06, cobad2000 wrote:

> This time after the “install selection”, the system loads some commands
> all came with the green OK and after certain time the screen get black.

Black?

> The menu to select clean install or upgrade never show up.
>
> I understand that upgrade from 11.1 to 12.1 is not supported or
> recommended or supported, but the installation should offer the option
> of a clean install.

And it does. The ordering of displays may be different, but the option is
there.

Note: before you upgrade, make a full backup.

> Because all the installation steps are recorded in the virtual memory,
> there is not permanent record in the hard disk to study.

Not exactly… the logs are finally written to hd when it finishes. And
they are meanwhile written to the virtual disk, where you can see them and
copy them to external media.

> I hope that the next versions install versions will improve their
> behaivour.

The behaviour is the same, upgrade is there as always. I can think of two
causes you see this: there is a bug or problem with your display causing
the black screen (video handling has changed a lot since 11.1), or your dvd
has a copy error. Did you verify the media, did you verify the checksum of
the downloaded iso file?

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” at Telcontar)

#10

On 01/22/2012 05:06 AM, cobad2000 wrote:
>
> The operating system is openSuse 11.1. The new version Opensuse 12.1 dvd
> Iso was downloaded ISO from the opensuse.org web site.

as plainly stated: “Starting with openSUSE 11.2, a live upgrade from the
prior version is officially supported.” <cite:
http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:System_upgrade> and “If you upgrade a default
system from the previous version to this version, YaST works out the
necessary changes and performs them.” <cite:
http://doc.opensuse.org/documentation/html/openSUSE/opensuse-reference/cha.update.html>
and in both cases the previous/prior version to openSUSE 12.1 is
openSUSE 11.4 (and not 11.1) therefore there is no supported upgrade
available to you unless you wish to upgrade from 11.1 to 11.2 to 11.3 to
11.4

> Normally in the previous versions, a new menu to select a clean install or un upgrade came up.

openSUSE 12.1 is not a previous version.

> I
> usually select upgrade to save time for loading that many applications
> outside the Opensuse packages.

you can not do that from 11.1 to 12.1 and expect a stable, reliable system…

> This time after the “install selection”, the system loads some commands
> all came with the green OK and after certain time the screen get black.
> The menu to select clean install or upgrade never show up.

that sounds like you have a bad install disk or a video problem:
-did you check the md5sum prior to burning the disk?
-did you self-test the disk this way: http://tinyurl.com/3qde66h
-if the install disk checks ok, then at the first green screen (after
you have run “Check Installation Media”) type into the Boot Options
<cite: see http://tinyurl.com/23mgej6>


nomodeset

> I understand that upgrade from 11.1 to 12.1 is not supported or
> recommended or supported, but the installation should offer the option
> of a clean install.

it does…

> Now, I am have to backup all my data shred my hard disk with a rescue
> kit. Then, with a blank hard disk a clean I will try a clean install.

backup is step one in all the cites for upgrade…before the first
time you get a black screen is the right time to backup.

> Because all the installation steps are recorded in the virtual memory,
> there is not permanent record in the hard disk to study.

this is true…

> I hope that the next versions install versions will improve their
> behaivour.

i don’t expect there has ever been or will ever be an openSUSE supported
upgrade from older than the previous version…and, that is a previous
version fully updated and patched…

because the upgrade is a script driven process and the sheer volume of
potential problems is nearly uncountable…here, this comes from one of
the cites above: “Be aware that in principle, this upgrade process is
considered “best effort” only. This means that due to some third-party
packages and the myriad of possible configurations, it is possible for
some combinations to cause failure upon upgrade.” and that is said when
moving from a fully functioning, patched and updated 11.4 to
12.1…no way they can write a script to upgrade from a version which
went past its end of life over one year ago.

–
DD http://tinyurl.com/DD-Caveat
openSUSE®, the “German Engineered Automobiles” of operating systems!

#11

Well, there is some hardware (a very very VERY small amount), where the 2.6.27 kernel in openSUSE-11.1 was the last where that hardware worked well. There are a very small number of cases with the Intel 8xx grahic chipset where that is the case (not all - just a small number). I know because for a long time I had such a piece of hardware. After the 2.6.27 kernel , only a primitive VESA driver would work with any reliability on that hardware of mine.

Now it was the kernel versions after the 2.6.27 that cause the problem in the cases that I think of, but for the hardware I owned (a Fujitsu-Siemens Amilo 7400M laptop) it did NOT matter what GNU/Linux one put on it. If the kernel version was AFTER the 2.6.27 kernel, it simply did not work well with an Intel driver. That’s no fault of openSUSE - the problem was upstream. And there were many bug reports on it, but for reasons I do not understand, rolling back the kernel break that caused the problem was never an option. At my wife’s urging, we eventually gave away the old hardware.

If one has OLD hardware and is thinking of installing a new version of any GNU/Linux , it makes a lot of sence to (1) test FIRST the GNU/Linux distro one is considering using a liveCD, and (2) ask on the relevant forum (identifying DETAILS of ones hardware) if users have any experience.

I’ve always seen that approach to check 1st as both common sense and also a MAJOR time saving measure - but I also concede MANY who have a more idealistic and a less pragmatic view of the computer world than I have would disagree with me.

#12

On 2012-01-22 17:07, DenverD wrote:

> 11.4 (and not 11.1) therefore there is no supported upgrade available
> to you unless you wish to upgrade from 11.1 to 11.2 to 11.3 to 11.4

Yes, that’s via zypper dup. Via DVD upgrade you can jump at least two
versions. And if you can’t, it is a bug that YaST doesn’t warn.

>> Normally in the previous versions, a new menu to select a clean install
>> or un upgrade came up.
>
> openSUSE 12.1 is not a previous version.

You are confused, he is not using zypper dup. I have used the method he is
using, and I know the menu is there, regardless of the jump (YaST is at
this point unaware of the version numbers).

>> I
>> usually select upgrade to save time for loading that many applications
>> outside the Opensuse packages.
>
> you can not do that from 11.1 to 12.1 and expect a stable, reliable system…

It is not supported, but it can be done :wink:

Of course, it can fail, and in that case you can not complain.

> i don’t expect there has ever been or will ever be an openSUSE supported
> upgrade from older than the previous version…and, that is a previous
> version fully updated and patched…

If you read the old paper SuSE admin books, you will see that there was a
chapter where they listed the differences between several versions. Not
just the prior one, but several versions. Thus, when we made a distro
upgrade the classical way (DVD off-line upgrade) we had a list in paper of
all gotchas we had to be aware, 1, 2, or 3 versions number jump. And it
worked :wink:

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” at Telcontar)

#13

On 01/22/2012 05:58 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2012-01-22 17:07, DenverD wrote:
>
>> 11.4 (and not 11.1) therefore there is no supported upgrade available
>> to you unless you wish to upgrade from 11.1 to 11.2 to 11.3 to 11.4
>
> Yes, that’s via zypper dup. Via DVD upgrade you can jump at least two
> versions. And if you can’t, it is a bug that YaST doesn’t warn.

i know you have said that before and i have before asked you to please
point me to the place in the docs, read-me, wiki, release notes, weekly
news or etc where that is written…

and so far you have not provided that URL to me…

>>> Normally in the previous versions, a new menu to select a clean install
>>> or un upgrade came up.
>>
>> openSUSE 12.1 is not a previous version.
>
> You are confused, he is not using zypper dup.

no, he said “in the previous versions, a new menu to select a clean
install or upgrade came up.” which was true!

but openSUSE 12.1 is not a previous version, as i said…so, it makes
no difference if every earlier version had a DVD upgrade or not, because
he is trying to install 12.1…whether he wants to upgrade using zypper
or DVD makes no difference, it is still not a previous version.

> I have used the method he is
> using, and I know the menu is there, regardless of the jump (YaST is at
> this point unaware of the version numbers).

yes, i have used it also…back in the SUSE 9.x days i used it twice,
at least…and, had trouble . . .

but these are not the SUSE 9 days and i can’t find (i have looked) where
the community gives instructions saying that you can select the DVD
upgrade function and upgrade from 11.1 to 12.1…in fact that function
is the YaST Upgrade described in “paragraph 15.1.3. Upgrading with YaST”
on page
http://doc.opensuse.org/documentation/html/openSUSE/opensuse-reference/cha.update.html

and, before you get to that paragraph the same page says:

15.1.2. Possible Problems

If you upgrade a default system from the previous version to this
version, YaST works out the necessary changes and performs them.
Depending on your customizations, some steps (or the entire upgrade
procedure) may fail and you must resort to copying back your backup
data. Check the following issues before starting the system update.

and i note that there is plenty of ink available for them to have said
instead:

If you upgrade a default system from any previous version to this
version, YaST works out . . .

but they did not write “any previous version” nor did they write “any
11.x version”…if they know should write in more supported upgrades
than just from “the previous version” then i suggest you log a bug
against the documentation…

>> you can not do that from 11.1 to 12.1 and expect a stable, reliable system…
>
> It is not supported, but it can be done :wink:

sure it can be done, or at least tried…and, i can jump off the Empire
State building and it will not hurt me–until the sudden stop at the
bottom :slight_smile:

>> i don’t expect there has ever been or will ever be an openSUSE supported
>> upgrade from older than the previous version…and, that is a previous
>> version fully updated and patched…
>
> If you read the old paper SuSE admin books, you will see that there was a
> chapter where they listed the differences between several versions. Not
> just the prior one, but several versions. Thus, when we made a distro
> upgrade the classical way (DVD off-line upgrade) we had a list in paper of
> all gotchas we had to be aware, 1, 2, or 3 versions number jump. And it
> worked :wink:

ok, i didn’t know that…but, where is the modern version of that book
which says you can upgrade from 10.x and 11.x to 12.1 but you can not
upgrade from 9.x, 8.x, etc …or whatever it should say, today??

see, i’m trying to tell what is written (that i have seen) about
upgrading to 12.1 (not what was written about upgrading to SUSE 10.0
Professional)…when you point me to the written word that says “If you
upgrade a default system from any previous version to this version, YaST
… . .” then, i will change my tune.

until then i do wish you would stop explaining what used to be available
in the way of DVD upgrades…and may be available today but undocumented…

peace, friend.

–
DD http://tinyurl.com/DD-Caveat
openSUSE®, the “German Engineered Automobiles” of operating systems!

#14

On 2012-01-22 18:45, DenverD wrote:
> On 01/22/2012 05:58 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2012-01-22 17:07, DenverD wrote:

> and so far you have not provided that URL to me…

Because I don’t know where it is.

>
>
>>>> Normally in the previous versions, a new menu to select a clean install
>>>> or un upgrade came up.
>>>
>>> openSUSE 12.1 is not a previous version.
>>
>> You are confused, he is not using zypper dup.
>
> no, he said “in the previous versions, a new menu to select a clean install
> or upgrade came up.” which was true!

Yes, but he also said that he was booting the install DVD. He is talking of
a menu in the DVD. Believe me, I have used that procedure dozens of times,
I know what menu he is talking about :slight_smile:

> makes no difference, it is still not a previous version.

He means previous versions of the install DVD.

> but these are not the SUSE 9 days and i can’t find (i have looked) where
> the community gives instructions saying that you can select the DVD upgrade
> function and upgrade from 11.1 to 12.1…in fact that function is the
> YaST Upgrade described in “paragraph 15.1.3. Upgrading with YaST” on page
> http://doc.opensuse.org/documentation/html/openSUSE/opensuse-reference/cha.update.html

Yes, I know the community doesn’t document the procedure. I’m waiting for
the right conjunction of boredom and time and right soul feelings to write
the entire wiki article myself. >:-)

> but they did not write “any previous version” nor did they write “any 11.x
> version”…if they know should write in more supported upgrades than just
> from “the previous version” then i suggest you log a bug against the
> documentation…

They do not say either that you can not upgrade from other versions.
Support is not mentioned there, in fact.

>>> you can not do that from 11.1 to 12.1 and expect a stable, reliable
>>> system…
>>
>> It is not supported, but it can be done :wink:
>
> sure it can be done, or at least tried…and, i can jump off the Empire
> State building and it will not hurt me–until the sudden stop at the bottom :slight_smile:

I have done those kind of jumps. I have even jumped from 32 bit to 64, with
the system I’m writing with. Sweet. :-p

But no, I would not even jump from my balcony in first floor.

> ok, i didn’t know that…but, where is the modern version of that book
> which says you can upgrade from 10.x and 11.x to 12.1 but you can not
> upgrade from 9.x, 8.x, etc …or whatever it should say, today??

They don’t write that chapter nowdays. They stopped when Novell came. First
they shortened it, then stopped printing it, then they stopped selling the
whole thing. No surprise the documentation is not as complete as it was.

I will write about that in the wiki, say that long jumps are supported, so
they have to come in and do an official rebuttal >:-P

Look, long jumps can be attempted if you feel like it. Just make a full
backup and try. If it fails grossly, just restore from backup and attempt a
shorter jump. There is no danger. Have a lot of fun!

I once did an upgrade, aborted, restored, started again… four times, till
I got it right. I wanted to do it a certain way for a bugzilla report.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” at Telcontar)

#15

when I posted my experience with version 12.1, I was looking for a technical know how to perform the upgrade when the normal installer fail. A clean new install is “no brainier”. I have been very happy with the SUSE distribution since my first version SUSE 4.2 and like stability and reliable system. As with any piece of old hardware, any distro may work or may not work. SUSE has been very particular about the hardware.
It seems that new SUSE kernel implementation is not compatible with the hardware in this particular case the Intel graphic ship. I did try live CD distro form other linux player and they work with my system. I just did not want to give up on the SUSE. I did check the integrity of the DV and it was OK. The fact is that version 12.1 is not compatible with my hardware. After some thought, I decide to stay with my old SUSE 11.1, I simply do not have the time to install all the third party packages again.

If I need a new kernel application, I will installed in another computer.

I Thank everybody for their input and remember we all want Linux to become mainstream.

#16

On 01/22/2012 10:58 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> I will write about that in the wiki, say that long jumps are supported, so
> they have to come in and do an official rebuttal>:-P

i like that plan, a lot!!

> Look, long jumps can be attempted if you feel like it. Just make a full
> backup and try. If it fails grossly, just restore from backup and attempt a
> shorter jump. There is no danger. Have a lot of fun!

i agree completely!!

so, to the OP: try the 11.1 to 12.1 DVD upgrade, but if it fails don’t
complain here because what you tried is not supported in any written
documentation that can be found…

–
DD http://tinyurl.com/DD-Caveat
openSUSE®, the “German Engineered Automobiles” of operating systems!

#17

On 01/23/2012 07:46 AM, cobad2000 wrote:
> I decide to stay with my old SUSE 11.1

i’d suggest you run in the patches and security fixes available from the
Evergreen project… as far as i can see it is very easy to do:

http://tinyurl.com/4aflkpy

–
DD
Have a lot of fun.

#18

On 2012-01-23 07:46, cobad2000 wrote:
> After some thought, I decide to stay with my old SUSE 11.1, I
> simply do not have the time to install all the third party packages
> again.

You can also try to upgrade to 11.4 instead. The kernel is 2.6.37, not the
3 series.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” at Telcontar)