Increase user base ?

English Open Chat
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If it is a goal of OpenSuse to attract new users, I have some suggestions.

  1. OpenSuse has a steep learning curve, but not as much as other distros that I have tried.
  2. Users who go back to other operating systems after getting frustrated or whatever, somr post messages on public forums about their experiences
  3. A cursory reading of those postings about Linux in general indicates more negative than positive experiences

At a training seminar, a speaker once said.

If someone has a positive experience, they may tell 2 or 3 people.

If they have a negative experience(s), they will tell about 10 or more people.

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Hi
This is off-topic for the help forums, will move to Chit Chat and will close thread until it is moved. For our nntp users, please wait until the thread is moved.

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Hi
Thread moved and opened for consumption…

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On 2013-09-10 21:16, malcolmlewis wrote:
>
> andy77586;2583923 Wrote:
>> If it is a goal of OpenSuse to attract new users, I have some
>> suggestions.
>>
>> 1. OpenSuse has a steep learning curve, but not as much as other distros
>> that I have tried.

As much as any new operating system. Even Windows. I know people that do
not know how to do simple tasks in Windows.

>> 2. Users who go back to other operating systems after getting frustrated
>> or whatever, somr post messages on public forums about their experiences

It happens in all directions.

>> 3. A cursory reading of those postings about Linux in general indicates
>> more negative than positive experiences

Of course - if the experience was positive, they would not go back
“home”. And those that stay, seldom write.

I don’t try to convince people to change to Linux. If they want to come,
they’ll have my help. If they don’t come, that’s fine with me, we’ll
stay friends.

And if they really want to come, they will not go back.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 “Dartmouth” at Telcontar)

5

As you say, ‘If the goal …’ - actually the goal is to ‘grow the openSUSE community’ (openSUSE:Strategy Community Statement - openSUSE) which includes but is not confined to users.

That is done in a wide variety of ways allowing participation at whatever level a person wants to participate. Perhaps some users are not catered for as well as others but that is really up to the members of the community. Most of what happens happens because individuals who are members of the community make it happen.

So perhaps someone will take up your ideas - but why not see if you and others can put them into practice for the benefit of users?

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On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 19:16:02 +0000, malcolmlewis wrote:

>> 3. A cursory reading of those postings about Linux in general indicates
>> more negative than positive experiences

A common misunderstanding of the nature of support forums is that people
come to them when they’re /not/ having problems. That generally /
doesn’t/ happen, so the “more negative than positive experiences” is a
byproduct of the purpose of the forums - to help people who are having
problems.

So don’t read too much into the fact that most of the people who post in
the “help” forums are having problems - that’s because that’s why the
forums exist. It’s extremely rare for someone to pop by and say “hey,
everything’s going fine here” in a forum that’s specifically targeting
those who need assistance.

Jim

Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

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Quite right Jim. I’m sure doctors see more sick people too :slight_smile:

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On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 02:06:02 +0000, deano ferrari wrote:

> Quite right Jim. I’m sure doctors see more sick people too :slight_smile:

That’s a good analogy, Deano - I may have to borrow it. :wink:

Jim

–
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

9

Maybe some of my posts have helped others.

Many problems were solved because of a few posters who genuinely enjoy helping others.

But unfortunately, many also have been critical, gave half-as#^ answers, or feel that those who have bought hardware that OpenSuse does not have drivers for,
are out of luck. (and I am talking about hardware less than 6 months old.)

I have been posting on some newsgroups with very few problems, and they don’t even use OpenSuse.

I have taken the advice of others and I am in the process of installing it.

I have visit their support forums and am pleased.

I wish you and the OpenSuse community as a whole, luck.

Andy

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All the best Andy. I do know that I tried my best to help you. For example - your printer is supported and it’s not a big deal to configure if you take things step by step. Maybe you tried to tackle too many things at once.

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andy77586;2583923 Wrote:
> If it is a goal of OpenSuse to attract new users, I have some
> suggestions.
>
> 1. OpenSuse has a steep learning curve, but not as much as other distros
> that I have tried.
> 2. Users who go back to other operating systems after getting frustrated
> or whatever, somr post messages on public forums about their experiences
> 3. A cursory reading of those postings about Linux in general indicates
> more negative than positive experiences

I’m sorry Andy - you say I have some suggestions' to attrack to new users’ but none of those three points are actually
suggestions, but only putative observations. Do you actually have suggestions?

Although the openSUSE goals do specifically include a statement to effect of wanting attract new users', I'm not sure that's really true in practice. If openSUSE really wanted to attract new users, there would be an option to download a batteries-included’ (i.e. propretary drivers/codecs/etc…) version and no such option exists. So one of the
suggestions' I would make to attract new users’ is to make such an option available but I already know this is not
going to happen.

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+1 My first reaction - where are the suggestions that may contribute to a solution if required?

If openSUSE really wanted to attract new users, there would be an option to download a
batteries-included' (i.e. propretary drivers/codecs/etc...) version and no such option exists. So one of the suggestions’ I would make to `attract new users’ is to make such an option available but I already know this is not
going to happen.

Although IIRC it wanted to attract a different type of “new user”, new to openSUSE, but not necessarily new to Linux. In other words they would arrive having cut their teeth on those other distos (e.g. Linux Mint, Ubuntu, etc) that are better at a “batteries-included” approach. That may not increase their share of Linux users by much, but it played to the project members’ strengths at a time when “contributor” numbers were apparently falling. I believe their main goal was to increase contributors for Project work such as program coders, packagers, and maintainers.

13

I’ve always recommended to PC users who wish to install GNU/Linux for the 1st time, that they give the greatest weight to who do they know, who can help them ? ie don’t let some PC review, nor Distrowatch rankings be the defining criteria. Rather if you have a couple of helpful friends who use Ubuntu, then install Ubuntu. If you have a couple of helpful friends who use Fedora, then use Fedora. If you have an unhelpful colleague who uses openSUSE, then do NOT install openSUSE.

But if one has a helpful colleague/friend who uses openSUSE, then use openSUSE. Over the years I have had more than a dozen friends/colleagues move to GNU/Linux and try openSUSE. Typically less than 30% stayed with openSUSE. Those who stayed were the 30% who asked me for help when they had hiccups. The 70% who did no stay with openSUSE refused to ask anyone for help, and decided their advanced PC knowledge would pull them through GNU/Linux. Well, they were always wrong. The 70% would then tell me they moved to Mint, or Ubuntu, or some other distribution and it was better. And then 6-months after that I would find out it was not better, and they moved back to MS-Windows.

The 30% who asked for my help ? They are still using openSUSE. And I still help them when they ask and when I can (within my limited technical competence).

Sure, my sample over more than a dozen is a small sample, but its made a solid point with me. Its helped shape my views. Go for a GNU/Linux where you know some GNU/Linux gurus.

The best chance one has to succeed in any GNU/Linux distribution is to know someone. Its all fine typing on a forum … but the turn around time is slow, and there are limits to what one can type on the keyboard.

Me ? I can’t imagine leaving openSUSE. I know too many people. If I ask for help, because of my contributions in the past, others go out of their way to help me. Its a superb you scratch my back and I will scratch your back computer world that works well for me. And its a world that distro hoppers in the most part have absolutely no clue about wrt the MASSIVE importance of this factor. When I try to explain this to them, they come up with excuses why my views are invalid for them, or why my views are less important wrt their defining criteria. … And so I do always wish them well in what ever operating system they end up using . as that truly is the bottom line.

Use what works for one, and get support from a user base that helps one achieve that. And the best way IMHO is to know someone who knows.

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On 2013-09-11 18:56, oldcpu wrote:
>
> I’ve always recommended to PC users who wish to install GNU/Linux for
> the 1st time, that they give the greatest weight to who do they know,
> who can help them ? ie don’t let some PC review, nor Distrowatch
> rankings be the defining criteria. Rather if you have a couple of
> helpful friends who use Ubuntu, then install Ubuntu. If you have a
> couple of helpful friends who use Fedora, then use Fedora. If you have
> an unhelpful colleague who uses openSUSE, then do NOT install
> openSUSE.

That’s a very sensible criteria.

Even more: I do not consider talking people out of Windows unless they
have someone to help, locally (supporting family remotely is an
exception :wink: ).

Not everybody can do with help from forums and such, unfortunately, at
least not till they reach certain level of experience. For instance:
your only laptop does not boot. How do you ask for help?

(I have a relative living afar who is out of mail contact for many
months, because her computer broke down. She is unable to buy a new
laptop and set it up on her own, apparently (no car, too)).

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 “Dartmouth” at Telcontar)

15

I experience intractable pain at times.

It draws a lot of energy away from other processes.

Andy

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One thing I know OpenSuse is doing right - the forums are the best. I dabble on nabble, freebsd.org, unix.com, misc@openbsd.org, ubuntu forums, and all of them are much more intolerant of questions they don’t like for one reason or another, or a poster who does not use a proper title they like, or does not capitalize correctly, example: writing freebsd instead of FreeBSD can get you banned from the freebsd forum. To a new user, these types of criticisms simply push people away and back to whatever OS they used in the past. A forum site should be like the local coffee house - a place where people of all stripes can go and enjoy life and learn from each other.

I agree that Windows can be very frustrating - it is not as “user friendly” as it could be. Frankly Suse/OpenSuse have always struck me as the easiest GNU/Linux version to use compared to Ubuntu or Fedora. I do like the software center in Ubuntu, but their settings manager sucks compared to Yast. I can understand what Ubuntu is trying to accomplish, with its push into mobile, but seriously, I am not giving up my Blackberry Z10 for a Ubuntu phone. Could you imagine the support staff at Verizon trying to help someone? They can barely read what to do for the Blackberry support - generally I have to go to a third party site like Crackberry for help.

Reversing direction and bring this comment back to the original thread intent, Opensuse needs a leader like a Shuttleworth; Apple had Jobs, Canonical has Shuttleworth, Fedora is associated with RH, which has a strong NYSE presence, GNewsense is backed by Stallman, OpenBSD has Theo, but OpenSuse has some shadow company Attachemate (spelling?) .

In the long run, the user base will grow anyway as more people become weary of being tied to Apple & MS.
Other than PC-BSD, the *BSD systems cannot compete with GNU/Linux systems for desktop use, and very few people want to invest the time to read all the necessary man pages to do simple tasks like add software.
As long as OpenSuse remains a solid OS choice, with its ease of use features such as Yast, and a good forum, it will grow its base.

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On 2013-09-15 17:46, BSDuser wrote:
>
> One thing I know OpenSuse is doing right - the forums are the best. I
> dabble on nabble, freebsd.org, unix.com, misc@openbsd.org, ubuntu
> forums, and all of them are much more intolerant of questions they don’t
> like for one reason or another, or a poster who does not use a proper
> title they like, or does not capitalize correctly, example: writing
> freebsd instead of FreeBSD can get you banned from the freebsd forum.

They do that? Wow :-o

> To a new user, these types of criticisms simply push people away and
> back to whatever OS they used in the past. A forum site should be like
> the local coffee house - a place where people of all stripes can go and
> enjoy life and learn from each other.

True.

On the other hand, some newcomers do not accept anything that smells of
criticism, even if it is not, and accuse us of unfriendliness or worse.

“Do not offend, and do not be easily offended”

Everybody can have bad days…

> In the long run, the user base will grow anyway as more people become
> weary of being tied to Apple & MS.

Maybe not, it will remain more or less stable.

Anyway, it is difficult to estimate an accurate number of users.
Microsoft knows how many licenses it sells, but we don’t have such a method.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 “Dartmouth” at Telcontar)

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It is written “openSUSE”. How dare you … http://vz.iminent.com/vz/ac2c95a6-2920-4613-8c35-f45fafbe0458/2/sarcastic-devil-laughing.gif

;):wink:

19

Yes, these mixed case names always confuse me because it seems arbitrary, and never logical. It seems like it used to be SuSE back in the old days, now you are saying it is openSUSE? Ok, will note that on my book margin…

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History:
S.u.S.E. : Software und System Entwicklung ->
SuSE ->
SUSE and openSUSE