Importing mail etc from 11.4 to 12.3 and maybe an alternative

I’ve come across some horror stories concerning this and wonder how they happen and if any one has done the import without any problems?

The reported problems seem to relate to indexing errors, speed – really slow and multiple instances of the same email. Also CPU usage but I gained the impression that this user was also running desktop indexing - bad news for desktops with a lot in them.

I notice that the import for mail can be started on it’s own. I have of course started up 12.3 Kmail with no emails in it so it’s indexing will indicate this. Also seen mention of stopping the service, loading the mail and restarting it. Seems this is done in system settings - personal. All my 11.4 set up has there is the contacts files which I assume is the address book. I assume that on 12.3 it will also have something to do with emails there as well. As this “fixing” process seems to involve deleting it would be nice to know if it helps if things go wrong and a little more detail on what is going on and how best to do it. The comments were on the KDE forum and not explicitly resolved. The OP had spent 6 weeks trying.

The same post indicated that opensuse maintain a repo that allows a kde3.x email package that can be installed on 12.3. Anyone have any info on where and how etc?

John

You don’t have to import anything. Just use the mail folders as they are.
For this go into the Personal settings, select the Local Folders resource and click on edit.
Then just choose in which folders your mails are located (should be ~/Mail, ~/.kde/share/apps/kmail/mail or ~/.kde4/share/apps/kmail/mail, depending on when you started to use KMail)
If you have a mixture of maildir and mbox folders there, you would have to add a new mixedmaildir resource (“KMail Folders”).

If you did use the non-Akonadi KDE4 version before, it should try to import all settings and accounts on first start. But I don’t know if this is working at the moment. I started using the Akonadi version with KDE 4.7 and that migration worked fine for me back then, but I know it was broken some time later…

You can turn off Mail indexing in “Configure Desktop”->“Desktop Search”, or you can disable for each folder separately by right-clicking on it in KMail and choosing “Properties”->“Maintenance”.

The old KDE3 version of KMail is contained in the package “kdepim3”. You don’t need an additional repo for that.
But if you only used the KDE4 version before, you would have to configure that one from scratch.

I think 11.4 is only partly akonadified, just the address book. On 12.3 I’m pretty sure that not using it on mail is greyed out. My monitor is on the old machine at the moment.

I think the person who has had 6 weeks of problems used kmail for some time before importing but there are lots of reports of problems. I’m beginning to think that kde 3.x email or Thunderbird is a better option. There are python scripts about to convert one of kmail’s email storage formats to match Thunderbird but one format can be simply copied across. Trouble is I like kde. No mention of filters in Thunderbird’s feature but they are there and look to be similar to Kmails. Maybe no bugs either such as not looking at the identity and just using the email address. They have known about that for years. Peculiarities in the address book too - there it just uses the email address. rotfl! Bet they will never get that right. Done sensibly it can be used to get rid of irritating things from people who have peoples email addresses - shops etc.

I knew about the import the lot on earlier KDE but not much use if a fresh install. I assume that 11.4 emails along with the address book which are the main things can be either transferred across - emails or imported - address book to Kmail 3.x? From odd comments I suspect kwallet goes when this is used. Kwallet aught to take care of the address book too really.

It’s an interesting problem. Rewrite all of KDE as it isn’t really possible to do much with the old version - and then forget about things that were fixed far too late in the previous version. Importing the lot from the older directory tree aught have been in it from day one even from a fresh install. And then there is the reason for needing kwallet.

Akonadi - it should be dead by know. If there are lots of things hanging on the desktop it will get in the way. Probably wear peoples discs out too.

I’m ranting. Sorry.

John

Correct. I didn’t say anything else.

I think the person who has had 6 weeks of problems used kmail for some time before importing but there are lots of reports of problems. I’m beginning to think that kde 3.x email or Thunderbird is a better option.

I am exclusively using the akonadified KMail since 4.7 and have no real problems. There are still some issues with filtering (sometimes some mails get duplicated, but that didn’t occur the last weeks anymore for me), but it’s much better than before.

I knew about the import the lot on earlier KDE but not much use if a fresh install. I assume that 11.4 emails along with the address book which are the main things can be either transferred across - emails or imported - address book to Kmail 3.x?

Of course. Akonadi is only a cache, the data is stored in the exact same files as before.
But of course KDE3 programs use ~/.kde whereas KDE4 programs use ~/.kde4.

Regarding the addressbook: Since Akonadi, the default setup stores them in ~/.local/share/contacts/, one .vcf file per contact. I’m not sure if KDE3’s KAddressbook supports that directly. But you should be able to export them.

From odd comments I suspect kwallet goes when this is used. Kwallet aught to take care of the address book too really.

What do you mean with that, I don’t understand.
KWallet has nothing to do with your address book. It’s a system to store passwords…

It’s an interesting problem. Rewrite all of KDE as it isn’t really possible to do much with the old version - and then forget about things that were fixed far too late in the previous version.

The main problem is lack of man power. And that doesn’t make it better if every application has to contain its own code for dealing with contacts, mails and so on.

There are many things fixed/implemented better in Akonadi that never were fixed in KMail/KDE3. Best example is IMAP support I think.

Importing the lot from the older directory tree aught have been in it from day one even from a fresh install.

What makes you say that? I told you there’s no import needed…
And it was and is in there, as I said. When I first started KMail 4.7 (the first akonadified version) all the settings and accounts from KMail1 were imported, the mail folders were just continued to be used as they were…

And then there is the reason for needing kwallet.

What do you have against kwallet?
I used kwallet even in KDE3 times. I always found it convenient.
I don’t know why some people are cursing it. If you don’t want to enter an additional password for the wallet, just set an empty one.

And you don’t even HAVE to use it you know. But KMail doesn’t save your passwords at all then, you would have to re-enter them at each start.
The old KMail1 did save it in plain text in that case.

Akonadi - it should be dead by know.

Why? It only just has started and gets better and better… :wink:

If there are lots of things hanging on the desktop it will get in the way. Probably wear peoples discs out too.

That’s complete nonsense. Why do you think it does?

Most of the stuff you wrote sounds just like FUD IMHO.
Maybe caused by bugs in some earlier versions or because it didn’t really work on some distributions because of packaging errors or using not-working-well-together versions of different libraries…

On 2013-07-13 18:56, wolfi323 wrote:
> Most of the stuff you wrote sounds just like FUD IMHO.
> Maybe caused by bugs in some earlier versions or because it didn’t
> really work on some distributions because of packaging errors or using
> not-working-well-together versions of different libraries…

Many people reported problems with mail migration using kmail from
earlier versions to the current ones. I can not give you details, but I
have seen many posts about it.

There is one generalized method for email migration that works across
different clients, for the emails at least; contacts we have no such luck.

You need an imap server, better on the local network. On the old client,
move or copy all email to the server. On the new client, just retrieve
all email.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 “Dartmouth” at Telcontar)

:stuck_out_tongue: :wink: I’m only going to answer part of that.

Kwallet came about because Kmail only obscured passwords. A new package should do that itself really but I agree that manpower is a problem. KDE used to have more than it probably has now. Many people agree that Kmail WAS the best mail handler around. Lots have switched now so are unlikely to help sort it out.

Afraid I was asked not to discuss why the address book accesses should be pass word protected because it would worry people too much, probably with no need. Lets just say I had a spooky experience while conversing with some very capable people and leave it at that. I doubt if the hacking hole exists now.

My desktop - home typically has 60 odd gb of files on it - no video’s many many files ranging a from small to say 50mb at the extreme and not many of those. Indexing that lot takes a long time. Discs tinkle for days and days so I turn it off. I understand it crawls round the discs all the time looking for change. Not a terribly efficient way of doing things. File searches work fairly quickly without it as well or do on 11.4. I requested a change to Dolphin searches to allow only selected directories to be searched. Some interest but don’t know if it’s been changed. This would improve some search times a lot. I read something recently that made me wonder if a standard database lib is use now. Personally I feel that all problems relate to kde purely being a C++ wrapper or was where they say we only use C++ here with pride. Strict C++ is a philosophy that is best used with extreme care in some cases.

Anyway enough of that.

The question really is if I move to KDE3x type email modified for KDE4 style Qt will I be jumping out of the frying pan into the fire? Some how I suspect that is what SLE will be using as for any sort of serious use reliable email is a must. Could be all are using web mail though. Lots do. I don’t - much.

John

On 2013-07-13 20:46, John 82 wrote:

> Afraid I was asked not to discuss why the address book accesses should
> be pass word protected because it would worry people too much, probably
> with no need. Lets just say I had a spooky experience while conversing
> with some very capable people and leave it at that. I doubt if the
> hacking hole exists now.

It is obvious. Holes in Windows and outlook have been exploited to send
malware or spam to the entire address book. The same thing could happen
here if the list is not protected, and we get a bad enough exploitable hole.

> I suspect that is what SLE will be using as for any sort of serious use
> reliable email is a must. Could be all are using web mail though. Lots
> do. I don’t - much.

Thunderbird is very good, although heavy.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 “Dartmouth” at Telcontar)

Email “power users” those that are interested in scripting it etc seem to favour claws-mail. I thought Thunderbird but noticed the empty email post that came up on here. Email seems to be a buggy area at the moment. Some packages have some rather long standing bugs as well.

John

On 2013-07-14 11:26, John 82 wrote:
>
> Email “power users” those that are interested in scripting it etc seem
> to favour claws-mail. I thought Thunderbird but noticed the empty email
> post that came up on here. Email seems to be a buggy area at the moment.
> Some packages have some rather long standing bugs as well.

I tried claws several years ago, and I dismissed it I don’t remember
why, so I have installed it again.

It took several minutes to scan ALL my imap boxes. Compared to Alpine,
which takes seconds to start (1 or 2), it is a lot. It has created an
index folder of 68MiB.

I tested it on my bank email folder - first big problem, it does not
display html as such, and that’s a HUGE problem for me. I absolutely
need to read and reply html emails, even if many despise html email. It
is not even open for discussion.

This particular post is signed with a .p7s certificate, which
thunderbird marks as verified, but claws says it doesn’t verify,
“unsupported certificate”.

This particular email comes with an encrypted PDF attachment. “Open”
wants to open it with gedit! And “open as” only has “gedit” in the list!
Alpine, for instance, can not verify the certificate, but at least it
opens the attachment, using the system definitions for which programs to
use for each mime type; I don’t have to tell alpine what to use, nor
thunderbird.

Possibly, I could use claws for list email, wwich is plain text, but for
that task I use Alpine, which I have already customized, works fast,
does everything needed. But for a GUI email client, I need more. I could
learn to use it, but I need features it doesn’t have.

I have problems with thunderbird, so I also use alpine. Th has most of
the features I need, with some problems I know how to bypass.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 “Dartmouth” at Telcontar)

The Opera browser also has a mail client integrated, maybe try that.

Or Seamonkey, but I don’t think that’s very different to Thunderbird, since it should be the same code AFAIK.

Evolution would be another alternative as well. (although being GTK/GNOME based)

Kwallet was there before and it was already used by kmail1. It’s just that with KMail2 you HAVE to use KWallet if you want to store the passwords.
But why should every program handle everything for itself? That’s ridiculous even with unlimited manpower. Why not just use the existing standard KWallet system?
And using KWallet is more secure than storing the passwords in plain text in a config file.

Many people agree that Kmail WAS the best mail handler around. Lots have switched now so are unlikely to help sort it out.

As I already wrote, I am using it exclusively on Linux. And I still think it IS the best mailer around. (especially if I have to use Outlook… :wink: )

Afraid I was asked not to discuss why the address book accesses should be pass word protected because it would worry people too much, probably with no need

Why should your addresses be encrypted? If your that paranoid, use an encrypted filesystem.
It would easily be possible to implement an akonadi resource that stores your addressbook encrypted though.
That’s one of the advantages of using Akonadi. It is easily extendable and all programs using it can automatically use that new resource…

My desktop - home typically has 60 odd gb of files on it - no video’s many many files ranging a from small to say 50mb at the extreme and not many of those. Indexing that lot takes a long time. Discs tinkle for days and days so I turn it off. I understand it crawls round the discs all the time looking for change. Not a terribly efficient way of doing things. File searches work fairly quickly without it as well or do on 11.4.

What have your videos got to do with akonadi and KMail?
You can enable/disable file indexing and mail indexing separately in “Configure Desktop”->“Desktop Search”.
And you can disable indexing on a per folder basis in KMail.

Personally I feel that all problems relate to kde purely being a C++ wrapper or was where they say we only use C++ here with pride. Strict C++ is a philosophy that is best used with extreme care in some cases.

That’s nonsense as well. Do you have any idea what you are talking about?
And even KDE3 and KMail1 were written in C++.

The question really is if I move to KDE3x type email modified for KDE4 style Qt will I be jumping out of the frying pan into the fire?

I have no idea how good KMail/KDE3 works nowadays. I haven’t used in in years. And it hasn’t changed in years, AFAIK especially its IMAP support is lacking. And nobody will fix bugs anymore.

Just try it. As I said, KMail1/KDE3, KMail1/KDE4 and KMail2 all can use the same mail folders. No importing necessary. You just have to configure them accordingly.

Yes, I know.
Especially on 12.2 it didn’t work at all AFAIR. Don’t know what the current state is.
But migrating isn’t necessary. Just reconfigure the Local Folders resource to point to the old mail folder (or set up a new Local or KMail Folders resource which points to your old mail folder), setup your mail accounts and you’re good to go.

There is one generalized method for email migration that works across
different clients, for the emails at least; contacts we have no such luck.

You need an imap server, better on the local network. On the old client,
move or copy all email to the server. On the new client, just retrieve
all email.

Yeah, right. IMAP would be the best way to deal with mails anyway, if you have the possibility.
Especially if you want to access the mails from different clients or different machines/devices…
I switched all my accounts to IMAP last year.

Since you apparently were talking about file indexing here which even would happen if you uninstalled KMail/Akonadi (although it should be disabled by default on 12.3) I want to add something:
You can also configure which folders or filetypes the file indexer should index in “Configure Desktop”->“Desktop Search”.
So you could explicitely disable your video folder, or explicitely disable the indexing of all video files as well in there.

On 2013-07-14 15:36, wolfi323 wrote:
>
> robin_listas;2571674 Wrote:

>> Many people reported problems with mail migration using kmail from
>> earlier versions to the current ones. I can not give you details, but I
>> have seen many posts about it.

> Yes, I know.
> Especially on 12.2 it didn’t work at all AFAIR. Don’t know what the
> current state is.
> But migrating isn’t necessary. Just reconfigure the Local Folders
> resource to point to the old mail folder (or set up a new Local or KMail
> Folders resource which points to your old mail folder), setup your mail
> accounts and you’re good to go.

Yes, that should be so.

>> There is one generalized method for email migration that works across
>> different clients, for the emails at least; contacts we have no such
>> luck.
>>
>> You need an imap server, better on the local network. On the old client,
>> move or copy all email to the server. On the new client, just retrieve
>> all email.

> Yeah, right. IMAP would be the best way to deal with mails anyway, if
> you have the possibility.
> Especially if you want to access the mails from different clients or
> different machines/devices…
> I switched all my accounts to IMAP last year.

Me too, a bit earlier. The problem is that you have to setup an imap
server, which is a bit of a hassle. But there are rewards: accessing the
mails from any client or any machine, as you say, is very nice. It is
also possible to sync different imap servers.

I use dovecot; upgrading to 12.3 had an added problem, because there was
a major version change in dovecot, and I had to read some manuals again.
But it works :slight_smile:


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 “Dartmouth” at Telcontar)

On 2013-07-14 15:36, wolfi323 wrote:
>
> John_82;2571781 Wrote:

>> Afraid I was asked not to discuss why the address book accesses should
>> be pass word protected because it would worry people too much, probably
>> with no need

> Why should your addresses be encrypted? If your that paranoid, use an
> encrypted filesystem.

Encryption is not the same as password protection. Me, I would like that
not any program can obtain the list of contacts, I prefer to allow it or
not. An encrypted filesystem would be no help at all, because if the
user is active, the filesystem is opened.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 “Dartmouth” at Telcontar)

I’m glad Carlos reads my posts re the address book. I explained why I turn desktop search OFF and etc. I do know what I am talking about as well. Most software engineers do in this particular area. It might be possible to use google to get some idea what the term wrapper means in software terms. I did mention that KDE is a wrapper written in C++ and as far as I know always has been. Not sure what would be the correct description now. Some mention bloatware but that’s a sign that they don’t understand the C++ rational or the problems.

:\ Not on topic really which is why I mentioned ENOUGH other wise I could write pages on this and other problems KDE has. I continue to use it as do others that are fully aware. I like KDE. Pity the kde mailing list is more or less dead because these sorts of area would receive far more open discussion. Also a pity that I am not a PC software man otherwise I would be glad to help out. :)Speed and hows and why’s is one of my specialities.

rotfl! Anyway as to which client I’m still unsure so at the moment 75% give kdepim3 a go and 25% leave 12.3 as it is and use it. Using IMAP because all email apps are buggy seems a bit defeatist. It does seem that all of the usual candidates do have long outstanding bugs.

This forum has just started behaving strangely after I log in. Fine before I do but takes a couple of mins to load a page afterwards. This prevents me asking why in another thread. Unfortunately my netbook still runs windoze. Must see if the same happens on that. The problem is element loads - say 14 are on the way it hangs at 13. Same with the next lot etc. No problems at all yesterday.

John

Thunderbird, if used, can be moved from system to system and even be moved from computer to computer with different OSs by copying the profile and renaming it to the default email profile set up in Thunderbird on first start. Sometime ago it allowed more than one profile ‘profile manager’,but I do not know if that still exists.

Right, but password protection doesn’t really make sense without encryption.
And there are programs to encrypt single directories, so you would have to enter a password first to decrypt it (e.g. Truecrypt).

Also Akonadi does contain resources to store the addressbook on groupware servers (DAV, Open Xchange and Kolab) or Google Contacts. Those would be protected by a password as well then I guess. Don’t know of the addressbook features of all the other clients though.

But well, as I said, I don’t see a real need for password protecting the addressbook.

Not necessarily. If your email provider supports IMAP (as they do in my case) you just setup an IMAP account (instead of POP3) in your EMail client and can copy back all your mail there and access it from anywhere then, even via both POP3 and IMAP.

And KDE is no wrapper, what do you mean with that?. A wrapper is something that just calls some other thing with a different interface.

And bloat doesn’t have anything to do with C++, but with good/bad or efficient/inefficient programming.
Of course the size and resource usage of something is also dependent on the feature set.
Just because it is bigger and takes more RAM f.e. doesn’t mean it’s bloated.
Or would you call LXDE bloated just because it is bigger than twm for instance?

:\ Not on topic really which is why I mentioned ENOUGH other wise I could write pages on this and other problems KDE has. I continue to use it as do others that are fully aware. I like KDE. Pity the kde mailing list is more or less dead because these sorts of area would receive far more open discussion. Also a pity that I am not a PC software man otherwise I would be glad to help out. :)Speed and hows and why’s is one of my specialities.

Do you mean the opensuse-KDE mailinglist? No that’s not dead.
But if you experience problems with KDE you should report them at http://bugzilla.novell.org/ (same username/password as here) or http://bugs.kde.org/.
Or ask here or in the KDE forums: http://forums.kde.org

Oh, and btw. if you want to you can even stilll use the whole KDE3 on openSUSE 12.3. It is still included.
Just install the KDE3 pattern and select KDE3 on the login screen. (Press on the “gear” symbol for that)

rotfl! Anyway as to which client I’m still unsure so at the moment 75% give kdepim3 a go and 25% leave 12.3 as it is and use it. Using IMAP because all email apps are buggy seems a bit defeatist. It does seem that all of the usual candidates do have long outstanding bugs.

As said above, you don’t necessarily have to setup an IMAP server for that.
Just access your mail via IMAP if your provider supports it. Some (like GMX) only do with a premium account though, but that would depend on your provider.

And to repeat: I’m quite satisfied and happy with KMail2, although there still are a few glitches now and then. But no bug has ever prevented me to using it…
And it is still being maintained, bugs are fixed all the time, and it gets new features…

This forum has just started behaving strangely after I log in. Fine before I do but takes a couple of mins to load a page afterwards. This prevents me asking why in another thread. Unfortunately my netbook still runs windoze. Must see if the same happens on that. The problem is element loads - say 14 are on the way it hangs at 13. Same with the next lot etc. No problems at all yesterday.

Yeah, I also had problems.
That’s why I’m answering only now.
Maybe there has been a server problem?

On 2013-07-14 20:46, eionmac wrote:
>
> robin_listas;2571704 Wrote:
>> On 2013-07-13 20:46, John 82 wrote:
>> Thunderbird is very good, although heavy.

> Thunderbird, if used, can be moved from system to system and even be
> moved from computer to computer with different OSs by copying the
> profile and renaming it to the default email profile set up in
> Thunderbird on first start. Sometime ago it allowed more than one
> profile ‘profile manager’,but I do not know if that still exists.

You can have several profiles, and you can copy whole profile
directories from one computer to another. The trick is editing the
“~/.thunderbird/profiles.ini” file to add a section for the new one.

It is even possible to have a profile in Windows and use it in Linux,
with symlinks.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 “Dartmouth” at Telcontar)

On 2013-07-14 22:56, wolfi323 wrote:
>
> robin_listas;2571838 Wrote:
>>
>> Encryption is not the same as password protection. Me, I would like that
>> not any program can obtain the list of contacts, I prefer to allow it or
>> not. An encrypted filesystem would be no help at all, because if the
>> user is active, the filesystem is opened.
>>
> Right, but password protection doesn’t really make sense without encryption.

Ok, right.

Encryption is needed for the files where the data is stored, and a
password (or some kind of access protection) is needed to control access
to services giving information - in this case, addresses.

> But well, as I said, I don’t see a real need for password protecting
> the addressbook.

Yes there is, as a protection for the future. Access to sensitive
information, and addresses are sensitive, must be controlled. Only
authorized software should be granted access to the list of addresses
(and many other things, of course).

In Windows, there is malware that gets in (via email, for instance), and
starts sending email to the entire list of addresses in your book,
because it has access to it.

We don’t have that malware, but it is possible that it is created some
day, and it will have free access.

That’s one reason I can think of.

> robin_listas;2571836 Wrote:
>> The problem is that you have to setup an imap
>> server, which is a bit of a hassle.
>>
> Not necessarily. If your email provider supports IMAP (as they do in my
> case) you just setup an IMAP account (instead of POP3) in your EMail
> client and can copy back all your mail there and access it from anywhere
> then, even via both POP3 and IMAP.

Out of the question.

  1. My mail folders occupy 10 GiB, and my internet link bandwidth is 1
    Mbit/s downstream, 1/3 upstream. Sometimes I have to use a mobile
    connection, faster, but limited to 500MB/month. A text search would take
    days!

  2. My ISP limits imap storage to 100 MB, maybe 1000 MB on the master
    account.

  3. I want full control of my email storage for privacy and security reasons.

  4. Store it on gmail? No way, I’d have it scanned by the NSA, with no
    legal protection because I’m not a USA citizen.

> Yeah, I also had problems.
> That’s why I’m answering only now.
> Maybe there has been a server problem?

I have seen a mail about problems in bugzilla, dunno if related.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 “Dartmouth” at Telcontar)