I might be switching to a different distro :P

I just learned from phoronix, that SUSE is looking at a slow roll version of openSUSE.

https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Slowroll

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And?

It’s one of the candidate replacement concepts for Leap

Do you have a point?

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More attractive than Tumbleweed – « Fast Roll … :woozy_face: » but, this statement needs to be discussed –

With updates every one or two months with bug fixes and CVE fixes as they come in.

??? :unamused: Doe this mean that, when CVE fixes arrive, we’ll have to wait until the next update window before, the security changes can be applied?

I am on tumbleweed, and getting less often updates, might make me happy.

On tumbleweed after an update it takes takes two days max, before there are again updates.

My work around for this is to wait, until the number of updates gets around 1500.

So I am updating tumble weed about every two weeks now.

Slowroll will not be for me as it is ALP based and ALP is an Immutable OS - I want full control like I have today in Leap and Tumbleweed.

ALP is for corporations that want full control of what their users can do - not for Linux Gurus who want to customize their systems the old fashioned way.

Incorrect.

Again.

ALP is not an immutable core system in all cases, and never has been.

SUSE may very well be going an immutable direction with their paid offerings, that does not mean that openSUSE must do the same, and to the best of my knowledge, watching the discussion on the mailing lists about what is happening after Leap is EOL, nobody (or nearly nobody) is proposing an immutable base replacement for Leap.

I know you’re not going to bother reading this, because you keep spouting this uninformed nonsense anytime the discussion of Leap replacement comes up, but you were wrong before, and you’re still wrong, and you’re going to continue to be wrong.

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From what I have read, sfalken is right.

https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Slowroll

Slowroll is a new distribution from 2023 based on Tumbleweed, but rolling slower

«« Thumping the table … »»

  • Regardless of “immutable” and/or ALP, if a CVE is announced and, the repair is available (which is usually the case), the repair has to be applied ASAP – like yesterday

IMNSHO, the fasted method for applying changes which have been driven by a CVE, is often, to patch or, update if a patch isn’t possible …

There might be usecases for such a distribution. If you think about industrial systems which are not connected to the internet. They still have a patch/update cycle to prevent attacks from “the inner” (as example employees) or because it is required by an applicable IT law where the system is located.

As example i’m working on sites that are completely isolated from the outside internet (only a special protected internal LAN exists). They still need to get completely patched/updated (OT and IT) once a year…

For private users i have to agree with dcurtisfra. Such a distribution is a security risk if you want to use it connected to the internet…

Per both SUSE and OpenSUSE ALP statements none say non-Immutable OS anywhere:

https://susealp.io/

SUSE’s aim with its Adaptable Linux Platform is to build a new immutable-base operating system for enhanced application-layer features and container orchestration on newer hardware. The prototype that is expected soon will have x86-64-v3 as a baseline.

Why Use ALP

Adaptability

ALP products can have different versions of core components and be supported for different lengths of time. ALP allows for greater flexibility in managing software dependencies and updates, reducing the likelihood of getting “stuck” with outdated software.

Containerization

ALP relies heavily on transactional updates and containerization, making it easier to shift and swap what versions of libraries are in play. This approach simplifies the management of software dependencies and updates, reducing the potential for conflicts between different software packages.

Flexibility

ALP is a platform that produces families of products, which can be tailored to the specific needs of different users. Additionally, the ALP concept is flexible enough that openSUSE can leverage SUSE’s ALP products and add anything they want, potentially providing a more customizable experience for users.

Hi!

Sorry, maybe my English is very poor (which it is), but I would say that

Implies that distro upgrade will be every one or two months, and bug fixes and CVE fixes as they come.

Btw slowroll will come from Tumbleweed, not from SUSE.

In the other hand, ALP will be inmutable. Maybe it’s possible build a distro with ALP that don’t be inmutable, but SUSE will go for there. So if there is a Linerite version, it will be inmutable.

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Correct, that is what SUSE is doing.

Which has nothing to do with openSUSE, no matter how many times you repeat it.

SUSE provides openSUSE with the sources of their Enterprise Product, that is all, it is up to the openSUSE Community and Contributors to decide what to do with those sources.

Building an immutable base distribution is just one of those possibilities.

ALP doesn’t have any special sources, that make it “immutable” that is all in the configuration and design decisions that SUSE makes.

What openSUSE chooses to do with those sources from ALP is up to openSUSE.

I’m getting tired of watching you repeat the same nonsense over and over and over again, when it’s obvious you don’t understand, and don’t want to learn how this actually works.

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According Brown, that is nor exactly that way. Nowadays SUSE provides all the base system and he said that if openSUSE wants a “normal” Leap version there’s no enough hands to work because developers and packagers prefire works on Tumbleweed.

In fact there’s no plains for Leap 16.

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That is a gross oversimplification, and not what Richard said.

Correct. Leap 16 is not something that is on the roadmap. This has been discussed ad nauseum on the Factory-ML, here, and elsewhere. The sources that are being provided by SUSE no longer provide a “Leap-like Product” out of the box, like the sources for SLE-15 did.

SUSE is no longer going to use a traditional linux structure, and by all accounts, isn’t currently planning on providing a desktop version of their Enterprise Product, after SLE-15.

So the sources that openSUSE is working from, to provide whatever comes after Leap EOL are a different animal. If the openSUSE project wishes to continue to provide a traditional Leap-like product, once that time comes, then it is up to the openSUSE project to develop that, whether that means using the Upstream SUSE ALP sources or not.

Could whatever comes after Leap 15.x still be called Leap? Possibly.

Could it potentially still look like Leap 15.x? Also yes.

This has not been decided. Just because SUSE has made the choice to go in the direction of ALP and Immutable design, does not mean that openSUSE is in any way obligated to follow in their footsteps. It’s up to the openSUSE contributors to decide what they want to do, with the entirely possible option of just saying “Leap is EOL, and we’re not offering a replacement”

These decisions have not been made yet.

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And the Slowroll work is a perfect example of that - it can be tested and built and decided upon completely independently of whatever the ALP-based products look like, because it’s not downstream of any SUSE enterprise products.

I suspect much of the confusion among folks might come from not understanding the vastly different ancestries of the two most talked-about openSUSE products - Tumbleweed being generally upstream of everything else in the SUSEverse, and Leap having been downstream of finished SUSE enterprise products. Maybe I’m naive, but I think if Leap had always been called “SLE: Free Community Edition” or something like that, perhaps folks would have understood more easily just how much more of a derivative product Leap is (not that that’s necessarily a bad thing, just a reality to adapt to).

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I couldn’t have put it better myself

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I Love that. A name that shows what it is instead of a fantasy one.

Hi!

Seems there’s a lot of confusion here. Nobody (not me at least) says if you take ALP, you must make an inmutable system. The “present state of things”, and this may change, is that Leap needs to share the base system of SLE. And this base system will be an inmutable system. Packagers from openSUSE could take the base system and make a Leap style distro anyway, but according the last community discussions there’s not enought personal to do that. The present resources, as I’ve said, needs to share the SUSE base product.

Can this change in a few days? Well, it could be that suddenly appears a lot of developers and packagers ready to take action, but this is a possibility, not a fact, and even not a foreseeable fact.

Again acording Brown, there’s much more interest into develop Tumbleweed. And he said we’ll have probably a community version of the ALP version of SLE from SUSE. But he doesn’t wait a desktop version in the short term.

Unfortunately, the Linux desktop isn’t commercially interesting.
Personally, I wouldn’t mind to pay, let’s say, $50.= for a new release every 2 year if that can keep Leap.
But there are not enough people like me I guess.
I remember me buying the boxed version of opensuse with printed manuals.
(never used them, I just wanted to support it)

Fortunately there will be still Leap 15.6. After that w’ll see. I need a stable desktop for work ideally backed by an organization that has the resources. Probably I’ll switch to Linux Mint (becauses it’s indirectly backed by Ubuntu but without the nasty snap or flatpak).

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Well, I don’t think that. But there’s a lot of solutions to compete.

But this is not the same that

Btw, I think Tumbleweed is currently much more stable than Mint.

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