Home server - dedicated machine, or workstation combo

English Open Chat
#1

Hello all,

Along the way I’ve picked up an older machine (Pentium 4, 1.2ghz, 512MB RAM, 13GB HDD for OS, 500GB HDD for storage, 19" CRT monitor) that I’d like to use primarily as a home file server. Not so much streaming media files, but someplace people can back up their ‘My Documents’ (or equivalent) directories to from the various laptops in the house. It has just enough background noise that the wife doesn’t want it in the study area upstairs, so I thought perhaps I would put it downstairs in the basement shop area. Down there… I’ve often thought it’d be nice to have a very basic computer at hand - something to be able to browse the web, check email, and open/read the occasional PDF or spreadsheet file. Most of the rest of the time it’d just be sitting quietly under a bench.

With some other distros, people get all in a lather when someone mentions having a GUI on a server, or putting server software on a ‘workstation’ (in this case only ‘serving’ to the internal LAN). Given that this system is going to be pretty lightly loaded 99% of the time… it doesn’t seem like this would really hurt anything, would it? The services I was planning on running were: ssh (for shell access and sftpd), samba, ntp, and then perhaps an Apache-MySQL-PHP stack (more for web development than for providing services). I’ll probably add a few more along the way, but still seems like a pretty light load for a home network with maybe… 5 users max at any one time.

Thoughts, comments, suggestions?

TIA,

Monte

#2

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Sounds like you know what you want. If it prevents having two systems by
having a GUI from time to time on it then go for it. You can run at
runlevel three 24x7 and after logging in with a user just run ‘startx’ to
get a GUI for your user up and running.

Good luck.

memilanuk wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> Along the way I’ve picked up an older machine (Pentium 4, 1.2ghz, 512MB
> RAM, 13GB HDD for OS, 500GB HDD for storage, 19" CRT monitor) that I’d
> like to use primarily as a home file server. Not so much streaming
> media files, but someplace people can back up their ‘My Documents’ (or
> equivalent) directories to from the various laptops in the house. It
> has just enough background noise that the wife doesn’t want it in the
> study area upstairs, so I thought perhaps I would put it downstairs in
> the basement shop area. Down there… I’ve often thought it’d be nice
> to have a very basic computer at hand - something to be able to browse
> the web, check email, and open/read the occasional PDF or spreadsheet
> file. Most of the rest of the time it’d just be sitting quietly under a
> bench.
>
> With some other distros, people get all in a lather when someone
> mentions having a GUI on a server, or putting server software on a
> ‘workstation’ (in this case only ‘serving’ to the internal LAN). Given
> that this system is going to be pretty lightly loaded 99% of the time…
> it doesn’t seem like this would really hurt anything, would it? The
> services I was planning on running were: ssh (for shell access and
> sftpd), samba, ntp, and then perhaps an Apache-MySQL-PHP stack (more for
> web development than for providing services). I’ll probably add a few
> more along the way, but still seems like a pretty light load for a home
> network with maybe… 5 users max at any one time.
>
> Thoughts, comments, suggestions?
>
> TIA,
>
> Monte
>
>
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#3

> Along the way I’ve picked up an older machine (Pentium 4, 1.2ghz, 512MB
> RAM, 13GB HDD for OS, 500GB HDD for storage, 19" CRT monitor) that I’d
> like to use primarily as a home file server.

should work ok…but, that is not an overabundance of RAM for a
server…it is just at the level “recommended” see:
http://en.opensuse.org/Sysreqs

but, imho that is a recommendation for a home, personal use
machine…and, not a file server which may be hit by five users at
the same time…

certainly, i’d follow the always good advice from “ab” and run it
without XWindows (in runlevel 3) until you happen to wanna fire up a
email (etc) reader…[and, you may wanna check out the yard sales and
see if you can gobble up some 1 GB RAM sticks…]

i guess you know you can administer the server via a web browser from
anywhere you can ssh to the server by using Webmin
<http://www.webmin.com/> (without needing to have the GUI running on
the server)…

and, i’d personally not recommend loading KDE4 as your GUI…it is
currently the most resource hungry way to go…Gnome or better yet
XFCE are lighter alternatives (and others are even less hungry)…all
very capable of serving PDFs/spreadsheets/etc to your eyeballs…and,
maybe reserve a little more RAM for any user which might happen by as
you read…

-welcome-
let us hear how you get on…if you need it, see
http://tinyurl.com/ycgm2bx and http://en.opensuse.org/Concepts which
is good openSUSE specific stuff, even for seasoned *nix vets…

–
palladium
Have a lot of fun…

#4

I’ll have to dig around a bit… I bought the computer from someone who built it from a bare-bones kit, but I did d/l a manual from the vendor for that part. The RAM upgrade part should be fairly painless.

When I said ‘maybe 5 users’, I mean probably 95% of the time it’ll be just me piddling around on it, and occasionally my wife and/or one of the kids with a laptop that needs to access some files. On very rare occasions there may be a couple other folks over at the house who might end up using it briefly.

As far as running from the shell and starting X windows as needed… its been so dang long since I used anything other than kdm/gdm that I’m not sure I remember where to even look for configuring which window manager (i.e. iceWM, WindowMaker, etc.) gets used?

TIA,

Monte

#5

> When I said ‘maybe 5 users’, I mean probably 95% of the time it’ll be
> just me piddling around on it, and occasionally my wife and/or one of
> the kids with a laptop that needs to access some files. On very rare
> occasions there may be a couple other folks over at the house who might
> end up using it briefly.

well, just run it with what it has…and if it is ok, then ok…if not
then can find some ram…

> As far as running from the shell and starting X windows as needed…
> its been so dang long since I used anything other than kdm/gdm that I’m
> not sure I remember where to even look for configuring which window
> manager (i.e. iceWM, WindowMaker, etc.) gets used?

you can decide what desktop you want during the install processs (this
is NOT your grandpa’s Linux…we have indoor toilets AND electric
lights)…

walk yourself though the install process here:
http://en.opensuse.org/INSTALL_Local

when you get to step 5 you should (imHo) not select KDE4, XFCE is
certainly very usable, AND low resource needy…but, KDE3 will be
more like Windows[tm] and Gnome more like Mac…

whatever you pick you can (using a nice GUI thingy) set it to boot to
runlevel three…then when you wanna use X you just turn on the
monitor, log in (as yourself) issue a ‘startx’ at the command line and
poof, you will have Gnome…

hmmmm…i’m not certain the ‘best’ way to revert to X not
running…maybe close all your programs running in gnome, and go back
to that terminal (by pressing Ctrl+Alt+F1) and enter su give your
root pass and issue init3----but, if i were you i’d read around
some…(i’m not a real guru, i play one here)…

–
palladium
Have a lot of fun…

#6

Just for s&g I ran an install of 11.1 on an older Sony Vaio laptop that pretty much choked and gagged on KDE 3.5 in the past. This time around I selected ‘Minimal X Window’… and even the install walk-through in the Wiki (I’d already browsed through that previously) doesn’t really give much of a clue as to what all ‘minimal’ entails (though I think I recall a way to find out but it involves going back through the install process, which on that 'puter is pretty dog-slow). Turns out it uses xdm and dumps the user into twm. Shades of “your grandpa’s linux” indeed! There are none of the nice GUI tools you refer to, anywhere :wink: I haven’t used twm in years and years… for a dang good reason: a command line prompt is more friendly and easier to use!

That was kind of why I was curious as to what needed be done to switch to a different window manager like IceWM (which I think also got installed), or XFCE (which I installed via the ncurses version of yast).

I may go back and re-run the install (in Virtual Box on my Vista PC) and play with a few different install options. LXDE is looking like a pretty slick interface from boot on thru login, etc. so I may tinker with that as well.

#7

I go along with palladium. Don’t expect high performance. Extending the RAM to min. 2 GB would improve overall performance anyway.

To switch to a different desktop, like XFCE: In the login screen you see an option ‘Session’. Click it and you will see the choices installed. The login manager will remember your choice.

Since space is not an issue, and just to avoid a lot of interfering with the installer, I’d go for a standard install, deselect the auto-login feature, and install XFCE immediately afterwards. There’s a pattern in the software installer that installs the entire XFCE desktop.

You could also take a look at the LXDE-Live CD. LXDE is very light-weight, runs very OK on older machines, with a KDE3-like menu etc.

About the server part: you seem to know how to do it. From what you write I don’t see any problems.

#8

memilanuk wrote:
> Just for s&g I ran an install of 11.1 on an older Sony Vaio laptop that
> pretty much choked and gagged on KDE 3.5 in the past.

that was most likely a problem with the graphics driver…most folks
had some kind of problem with older openSUSE and Vaio…don’t know how
it is today, but i’d guess better…

if you wanna try kde4, be my guest…but be prepared to be frustrated,
until you update to KDE4.2, at least (while my KDE3.5.7 is like a rock

> This time around
> I selected ‘Minimal X Window’… and even the install walk-through in
> the Wiki (I’d already browsed through that previously) doesn’t really
> give much of a clue as to what all ‘minimal’ entails (though I think I
> recall a way to find out but it involves going back through the install
> process, which on that 'puter is pretty dog-slow). Turns out it uses
> xdm and dumps the user into twm. Shades of “your grandpa’s linux”
> indeed! There are none of the nice GUI tools you refer to, anywhere

now you know why i did not recommend it…(read again, i mentioned
gnome or xfce…i didn’t say kde3 either because the ¤#"%&
developers have stopped all work on that so they can all chase the
glitz and glitter of 4)

> :wink: I haven’t used twm in years and years… for a dang good reason: a
> command line prompt is more friendly and easier to use!
>
> That was kind of why I was curious as to what needed be done to switch
> to a different window manager like IceWM (which I think also got
> installed), or XFCE (which I installed via the ncurses version of yast).

changing window manager and desktop environment can (mostly) all be
done by just using YaST to install the bits and then at the log in
screen (the green, GUI log in screen) look down in the left corner,
click on “Sessions” and you will see a list of what you have
available…i’ve not looked at my list in which but as i recall i can
switch between KDE3, KDE4, Gnome, XFCE, and several others…

easy, would make grandpa laugh at how easy…

> I may go back and re-run the install (in Virtual Box on my Vista PC)
> and play with a few different install options. LXDE is looking like a
> pretty slick interface from boot on thru login, etc. so I may tinker
> with that as well.

like to tinker, think about: SOAD Linux: Possibly the most light
weight liveCD is a Russian effort based on openSUSE 11.1, using an
“Enlightenment” windowing environment. Read/download from here:
http://sda.scwlab.com/soad_linux.html This Enlightentment desktop is
supposed to be more light weight than either KDE, Gnome or XFCE.

you can boot and run it without threatening your Mista disk’s goodies…

–
palladium
Have a lot of fun…

#9

How did your little project work out? Was 512MB enough ram or did you have to increase it to a larger size? If yes, what size? Thanks!

#10

While I would not recommend running a GUI on a server, I should say that the developers have done fantastic work on KDE4. I saw that the RAM footprint on a 11.2 install, after I logged in on the desktop, was only 200MB. That should give Xfce a run for its money.

512 MB should be sufficient for a file server (disk I/O is more likely to be the limitation). I have a mail server that runs fine in 512 MB, CLI of course.

#11

Actually I was incorrect earlier, the machine lists 992MB of ram.

I’ve been kind of floating between different distros at the moment… various releases of Debian, Ubuntu, CentOS, Fedora & openSuSE. I’ve got 11.2 downloading now via bittorrent, and I’ll probably give it another go here tomorrow. It’s hard to say why, but something about the ‘feel’ of openSuSE and its approach just doesn’t quite feel right - not so much a condemnation of the distro, but perhaps I’ve been using other flavors too long?

#12

Well if you miss the CLI, just choose Other when it asks you for desktop and you have the choice of no GUI. That should make you feel right at home like with Debian. :wink:

Have a lot of fun in any case.

#13

I just may take you up on that… :sarcastic:

I’ve been playing around more with openSuSE inside Virtualbox on my main desktop PC. I do recall always having a bit of a love-hate thing going with YaST… it makes so many things brilliantly simple but if you occasionally need to work outside/around it… things can get ugly quick IIRC. Granted it’s been years since I last really used SuSE (v.7 or 8, right before Novell got involved).

Speaking of CLI-only installs… I don’t see much (if any) mention around here of people doing much with anything other than full GUI systems. I realize the relative ‘horsepower’ of modern computer systems is such that desktop environments like KDE & Gnome aren’t as crippling as they used to be… but is everyone running full desktops on top of their dedicated openSuSE servers or are they running stripped down CLI-only systems, accessing YaST through the ncurses interface?

Thanks,

Monte

#14

YaST is great, but for a lot of things it’s too limiting. There are servers with config files which have many options inside which YaST does not expose (and for some things, YaST does not even offer an interface… for example, Webalizer, where there’s no YaST front-end for it and it too has many options in its config file). A good alternative to YaST is Webmin, which is a browser-based interface to servers/system settings/etc and supports in many cases more than YaST does.

I always run my servers in CLI (don’t even have a GUI as fallback) and when I need to modify/configure something I do it through the CLI interface with CLI tools so I never touch ncurses YaST. Obviously, one needs to know his way around in CLI mode and feel comfortable with it.

#15

Hmmm… well as I said, its been a few years since I dug around inside the guts of a SuSE-based system… or any *nix variant. I think I may get a couple virtual machines running so I can sort out how I want things to go on my workstation/server before I switch it over. I’ve used Webmin a bit in the past; the one thing that is always a bit of a concern is whether a local control system (like YaST) is going to play nice with Webmin, or if it has to be an either/or arrangement.

I thought I’d heard somewhere along the grapevine that a web version of YaST was supposed to be in the works?

Monte

#16

Webmin is not per-se incompatible with YaST. However, sometimes YaST may add custom comments to config files which it needs to determine something afterwards when the user is trying to reconfigure it again - /boot/grub/menu.lst is one example. Sill, Webmin will not touch comments by itself (unless told to) and will work just fine with such files. There are not a lot of ‘special’ things that Webmin or YaST do to standard config files, but there may be some specific areas where they may be ‘incompatible’ and break/misconfigure things. I’m not entirely sure as I don’t use YaST much, nor Webmin

As for the webinterface of YaST, wasn’t it supposed to be in 11.2? I’m still on 11.1 so I don’t know what happened to it and if it’s already included. Even if it is, I’m pretty sure it offers the same options as the ‘normal’ YaST, just through a web interface

#17

You don’t see many posts about them because the people who run CLI installs or admin machines via CLI usually know what they are doing.

#18

Ah. So no ‘in-betweenies’, folks making the move? :wink:

I will admit that as I dig through the information available on opensuse.org, Swerda’s site, and the Novell docs for openSuSE… I am becoming more and more impressed with the overall level of documentation. Reminds me of those massive manuals that used to come with the boxed sets of SuSE back when :wink:

#19

Dunno, really. Maybe by the time they get there, they post like they’ve been running CLI all their lives, or don’t mention it. :slight_smile:

#20

The icewm version which get installed is icewm-lite. This is really an extra light one. I recommend the ‘regular’ icewm, which is still light enough for a fileserver and lighter than Xfce. If you zypper in icewm , it will remove the other one. It has everything a WM needs, menus, buttons, taskbar, multiple desktops. I put a screenshot here :
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/2916/icewm.jpg