GPT and openSUSE

We will be seeing more hard disks larger than 2 TB, and more of (U)EFI, so GUID partition tables (GPT)will become more common.
It seems openSUSE does not handle GPT all that well, with BIOS or (U)EFI.
On reading the GPT fdisk tutorialI note, as one example, the following 3 quotes are from Booting from GPT in the “Installing to (U)EFI” section, (unfortunately openSUSE doesn’t fare much better in other areas of this doc’ either.)

  • OpenSUSE 11.4 converts legal GUID partition tables into hybrid MBRs. Worse, it does it incorrectly—the hybridized partitions are all one sector too small! You can correct this problem after installing OpenSUSE by using the n option on gdisk’s experts’ menu.
  • The OpenSUSE 11.4 DVD installer lacks two critical packages (elilo and efibootmgr). Therefore, the installation can’t complete unless you manually install these packages from some other source.

Although, openSUSE is not alone with problems here,

Ubuntu 11.04 has an extremely serious bug that causes it to erase any existing ESP, thus wiping out any existing boot loaders or other files installed there. Be sure to back up your ESP before you install Ubuntu to a (U)EFI system!

On the other hand,

Fedora 15 installed relatively painlessly for me on a “real” UEFI test system; however, its modified GRUB Legacy kicked the system into a resolution that was too high for me on a VirtualBox UEFI installation. Switching to GRUB 2 fixed that problem (but I had to fiddle with the GRUB 2 configuration file to get it to work).

And,

Any Linux distribution with appropriate EFI and GPT support in the kernel can be switched from BIOS-mode to UEFI-mode booting or vice-versa by installing a suitable boot loader and adjusting the firmware’s boot mode. This fact can be used to work around some of the more serious installation problems: Install in BIOS mode, install an EFI boot loader, reconfigure the BIOS, and reboot.

But, shouldn’t this be made easier, a few fixes, a modified GRUB and extra options perhaps?

Well, just a thought!

Bear in mind that openSUSE is a community distrinution, not an enterprise one; also a lot of openSUSE users still have to, or want to, dual boot with Windows which cannot use GPT. Most of my 160GiB hard drive is emply - I wonder how many people who are not using openSUSE for an enterprise will need a 2TiB hard drive.

Correct me if I’m wrong - as I do not use nor install Windows - but I think Windows now uses GPT.

Bear in mind that openSUSE is a community distrinution, not an enterprise one;

Yes, but improvements made in openSUSE end up in the enterprise versions.

also a lot of openSUSE users still have to, or want to, dual boot with Windows which cannot use GPT.

Windows can use GPT ,we are likely to see that more often too.

According to Microsoft’s Windows and GPT FAQ, no version of Windows through Windows 7 can boot from a GPT disk unless the computer uses UEFI. To boot from a GPT disk, you need a version of Windows for the Itanium CPU or Windows Vista or later on a UEFI-based system.

This too can be worked around, but that’s not the point. Windows has its own set of issues with GPT disks. When dual booting it with openSUSE do we really want to add an extra set of ugly issues and then deal with the compounded problems? Or would is be better if openSUSE handled GPT disks well?

The author of the document I reference here is also the author of the GPT fdisk program which includes gdisk, sgdisk and fixparts programs, when he titles the section of his tutorial on hybrid MBRs (the method mentioned above that openSUSE uses, and incorrectly) in this way

Hybrid MBRs: The Good, the Bad, and the So Ugly You’ll Tear Your Eyes Out

Should we consider discussing changes and improvements ?

I did overstate the case; Windows will use GPT with EFI firmware but the number of Windows machines with EFI firmware is minuscule compared with the number ot Windows machines in use - so effectively the vast majority of Windows machines cannot use GPT.

I did overstate the case; Windows will use GPT with EFI firmware but the number of Windows machines with EFI firmware is minuscule compared with the number ot Windows machines in use - so effectively the vast majority of Windows machines cannot use GPT.

It may be worth noting that many mainboarbs now use UEFI as standard, and a workaround is often used to run BIOS (BIOS mode, or similar is currently standard), hard disks are available that hit the 2TB MBR limit (and fake RAID is on nearly every MB).

So the hardware is in place, All that is missing is for windows to properly support GPT, this (I expect) is likely to come with windows8. And you may then find vendors commonly setting up systems using UEFI and GPT for windows.
If that happens, would it be nice for openSUSE GPT support to be where it is now? Or should we look at it now?

The point of this thread was not to start an argument over weather proper GPT support should be implemented or not. It should! and it needs to be, But the question is when and how?

However, the initial question was:

But, shouldn’t this be made easier, a few fixes, a modified GRUB and extra options perhaps?

to which one possible answer is: not yet?

If you think it should be in openSUSE now, then the appropriate place to ask for it is openFATE https://features.opensuse.org/. A quick search shows that no-one else has asked for it yet.

IMO, any Linux should be able to boot GPT and it is going to happen sooner or later. I don’t know if people are going to use 3 TB harddrives anytime soon, since most of them don’t use desktop PCs anymore. Everything in computer market is changing too fast. AFAIK booting from GPT is already implemented in Grub2 - didn’t say it works well, I don’t know. So my guess is that Linux distros will slowly switch to Grub2. Notice that as long as you’re not booting from your 3TB HD, it should be OK, since the kernel itself can handle GTP partitions - again AFAIK, as I don’t have a 3TB HD to play with.

Maybe this will help. Make the most of large drives with GPT and Linux

If you think it should be in openSUSE now, then the appropriate place to ask for it is openFATE https://features.opensuse.org/. A quick search shows that no-one else has asked for it yet.

OK, obviously I haven’t been clear with what I want to achieve, I am considering a feature request at openFATE, but before doing so, I am interested in the opinions of others.

How should this should be implemented ? (if it is considered worth doing.) examples include,

A). A modified GRUB legacy

B). GRUB2 (possibly also modified)

C). ELILO ( often considered to be the best option for GPT on Linux, It's been around for awhile!)

The installer will autodetect a GPT disk, When this occurs, automatically pointing the installer to A).,B)., or C). (or an option not mentioned) Should not be too difficult, I think. (I do mean only the one option chosen by openSUSE).

Any other suggestions are very welcome!

Again, it’s not the 2TB HD limit that concerns me, but the fact that all hardware is in place to use UEFI and GPT, and windows8 looks like it may offer proper support for these, if this occurs, some hardware vendors are likely to install windows on GPT disks.Installing openSUSE then is a headache.

It’s at this point that the changes I suggest may show some advantage.(but that is only guess work!).

If this is not considered worth doing then I also want to know that, I have no intention to waste the time of the dev’s.

IMO, any Linux should be able to boot GPT and it is going to happen sooner or later. I don’t know if people are going to use 3 TB harddrives anytime soon, since most of them don’t use desktop PCs anymore. Everything in computer market is changing too fast. AFAIK booting from GPT is already implemented in Grub2 - didn’t say it works well, I don’t know. So my guess is that Linux distros will slowly switch to Grub2. Notice that as long as you’re not booting from your 3TB HD, it should be OK, since the kernel itself can handle GTP partitions - again AFAIK, as I don’t have a 3TB HD to play with.

Any Linux can boot to GPT, and Linux kernel support is as good as you will find, Boot loader support is another issue!
The above 2TB HD issue is, I feel relatively minor, more important is when hardware vendors choose to install windows on GPT, At that point how a linux system installs will depend largely on the effort the distro has put into GPT and the boot loader.

Maybe this will help. Make the most of large drives with GPT and Linux

There is useful info in that doc but, It’s not crammed full of it, worth a read however.

Everyone who has replied to this could easily fix any issues that occur due to the use of a poorly implemented approach to GPT disks. Can a new user?

Hello everyone

i have 2 disk
the first it’s normal first partition / and second partition home
the seconds disk it’s a gpt disk with 3 partitions, first macosx, second fat32, third swap.
Now with opensuse 12.1 with grub boot perfectly, but the second disk it’s not recognize.
Can’t acces to hfsplus partition, or fat32 or swap
Don’t recognize any partition on disk
ll /dev/sdb*
brw-rw---- 1 root disk 8, 16 nov 22 22:31 /dev/sdb

PD: with opensuse 11.4, all work perfectly and with grub can boot into macosx

why?

In 2012-Oct I got a notebook EFI/GPT based.

I failed to get Linux to install or work on it.

I’d been using Linux since 1996, but this stumped me

( LILO made sense to me,
GRUB’s config file is an incomprehensible error-maker,
not a clear or understandable thing, to me )

I just tried 12.2, and it doesn’t work, either.
It told me I needed a FAT partition for /boot/efi so I created one,
then it told me that there wasn’t a GPT Disk Label,
AND that the machine wouldn’t boot into Linux unless I destroyed the GPT Disk Label.

So, I don’t know if there was no GPT Disk Label OR if there is one that need be destroyed.

In either case, it destroyed my ability to boot into Vista64, handily,
while not giving me any ability to boot into Linux.

My Vista64 install-disc allowed me to recover the Vista boot sector/chainloader/whatever
( which is how I am here now ),
but with no fix for this kind of thing,
Linux deserves to be locked-out from the computing world
by those who make systems actually-usable, perhaps…
( sad day in the world when being locked-in in the decorator-prison of MS/Apple,
gives one MORE actual function
than Linux can give one on the same hardware,
and this common, unless one has engineering accreditations,
but I guess a bitter dose of reality is a good antidote to ignorant ideology )

I’m putting this here only so that others who either

a) are as blocked from Linuxing their machines as I am, or

b) want to know why people are fed-up with Forever Broken’s religion
& just go replacing their Linux with MS-Windows or Mac OS IX+1,
to get to use our machines…

can understand what happened.

I’ll keep digging to see if I can discover some way to get this fscktardedness fixed,
but based on how many years KDE can be simultaneously broken
& whining about people remaining in MS-Windows
( and utterly-broken Desktop Environment is some kind of alternative??? )

I’ve no expectation whatsoever of getting any machine to work completely in Linux within the next decade anymore
( unless it’s a truly stripped-down server: perhaps the only market Linux honestly earns )

Good Luck & Cheers.

first time posters into chit-chat are always fun to read!!

i try to make it a rule to not feed the trolls, but i do enjoy the fun
this one provided!

like:
>
> ( LILO made sense to me, GRUB’s config file is an
> incomprehensible error-maker, not a clear or understandable thing, to
> me )

i’m with you on that one…i too am incompetent at such a level of
technological achievement…

> I just tried 12.2, and it doesn’t work, either.

sure it works, just not easily…and, not without more knowledge than
some (like me) have…but, i do believe there are guides to help the
feeble (like me) to get there

> My Vista64 install-disc allowed me to recover the Vista boot

ah, proud of your five year old longhorn are you? funny…most of my
friends couldn’t wait to dump it…stood in line to buy a better 7…and
are all wishing for Santa to soon put an 8 in their stocking…

> a bitter dose of reality is a good antidote to ignorant ideology

religion? notice which browser is the most used (reason: so many new
Androids)…the fact is that Bill missed the net and Steve missed mobile
has something to do with the reason MS had to cook up a way to try to
lock out the competitive religions.

> Forever Broken’s religion

that is pure FUD, its not forever folks…just a small bump in the
road…just like every other of Bill and Steve’s efforts to kill the
competition has not succeeded, neither will this one.

> I’ve no expectation whatsoever of getting any machine
> to work completely in Linux

wow, that is really funny…my low end consumer system “work completely”
with openSUSE, and did so right out of the box…

> stripped-down server: perhaps the only market Linux earns

see, you make me laugh again…as it is there is only ONE market ruled
by MS: the desktop.

everything else (phones, tablets, TVs, automobile control systems,
department of defense systems, refrigerators, stock markets, robots,
internet backbones, space ships, phone systems, supercomputers, etc etc
etc) Linux or some other *nix like, non-Windows system are numbers #1,
#2, and #3

oh, i think MS is pretty big also in games…maybe #2 or #3

and, the post’s show stopping belly laugh was the very nice self
description…the almost spelled correctly: ID10T


dd
http://tinyurl.com/DD-Hardware
http://tinyurl.com/DD-Software

If you got a EFI notebook in October 2012 with Vista preinstalled, it was a rip-off.

That doesn’t say anything about Grub. That only says something about you.

Creating a FAT partition is not sufficient. You can not use “any” FAT partition, it has to be of type ESP (EFI system partition), meaning that its GUID has to start with C12A7328. Otherwise, it’s just an ordinary FAT partition, not what we need here.

It was probably right. Windows would have told the same thing btw.

If we’re talking about UEFI/GPT it will be rather “whatever” than a boot sector. But that your hardware is UEFI based doesn’t prove that Vista has been installed in UEFI mode and that your notebook doesn’t boot in BIOS compatibility mode. It depends how clever the computer technician who installed Windows on that machine was. Last time I met some, thy were not clever, and I had to reinstall Windows - which is not my favorite hobby to be honest.

Yeah … well, only reading, learning, trying, failing … and trying again helps, I’m afraid. :wink:

This thread has a lot of information, hacks and solutions: Trouble dual booting 12.2 and Windows 7 on EFI enabled system

I guessed it is planned. So just be patient!

I can not talk about religion here, but if we talk about computers, Windows is a very bad designed operating system (assuming it deserves this name) that causes irreversible brain damage, as you might have noticed or experienced already.