Getting Firewire (IEEE-1394) to work with 11.1

[oldcpu]

@Weyland-Yutani

No problem, Oldcpu. As far as I’m concerned, the world is your lobster. Let me give it another day or two. If nothing transpires, I’ll concoct a formal bug report. OK?

No, but I will try that, probably later today. It might not be SUSE. OK?

All the better, although if you are using KDE-4.x.x I would also recommend a KDE-3.5.10 or Gnome live CD, in case there are some desktop aspects impacting this (although given you did not see the drive with fdisk, I doubt this is desktop related). I typically recommend sidux as a good live CD for hardware detection.

@Weyland-Yutani

With reference to these WD drives I have, namely two 500GB WD500P032s (I think they’re marketed as MyBooks) – I love them, but they’re not perfect.

Most of my external drives are a mix of Seagate/Maxtors.

@Weyland-Yutani

Until now Firewire hasn’t been a problem except with daisy-chaining. That has never worked on any machine I’ve tried, and it even seems to stop a clean boot on SUSE (it hangs with an all-white screen

Daisy chaining works like a charm with my Seagate and Maxtors with firewire and openSUSE-11.1. In fact, it worked in 11.0, 10.3, 10.2, 10.1, 10.0, and 9.3, albeit we were only talking 2 daisy chained firewire drives with 9.3 as opposed to 5 now. This was all with KDE3. However hot plug automounting has not always worked for NTFS. With the earlier SuSE versions I had to manually mount.

[oldcpu]

Speaking of firewire drives, and getting information, here is a thread I stared on listing firewire devices (much like one might list USB or PCI devices): Firewire equivalent of lsusb lspci ? - openSUSE Forums

The complete lack of response to that thread is indicative of the fact than no one found it interesting. rotfl!

[Weyland-Yutani]

More News from the Edge

I attached the same drive to a different machine, also running openSUSE 11.1. Hot-plugged. Worked with no problem, and Dolphin sees all the partitions.

[08:48:24 /etc]> lsmod|grep 1394        
ohci1394               27652  1         
ieee1394               83764  2 sbp2,ohci1394

[08:50:02 /etc]> cat fstab                   
/dev/disk/by-id/ata-WDC_WD800JB-00CRA1_WD-WMA8E4523913-part5 swap                 swap       defaults              0 0
/dev/disk/by-id/ata-WDC_WD800JB-00CRA1_WD-WMA8E4523913-part6 /                    ext3       acl,user_xattr        1 1
/dev/disk/by-id/ata-WDC_WD800JB-00CRA1_WD-WMA8E4523913-part4 /home                ext3       acl,user_xattr        1 2
/dev/disk/by-id/ata-IC35L080AVVA07-0_VNC404A4H20M9F-part2 /windows/C           ntfs-3g    users,gid=users,fmask=133,dmask=022,locale=en_US.UTF-8 0 0
/dev/disk/by-id/ata-IC35L080AVVA07-0_VNC404A4H20M9F-part5 /windows/D           vfat       users,gid=users,umask=0002,utf8=true 0 0                  
/dev/disk/by-id/ata-IC35L080AVVA07-0_VNC404A4H20M9F-part6 /windows/E           vfat       users,gid=users,umask=0002,utf8=true 0 0                  
/dev/disk/by-id/ata-IC35L080AVVA07-0_VNC404A4H20M9F-part7 /windows/F           vfat       users,gid=users,umask=0002,utf8=true 0 0                  
proc                 /proc                proc       defaults              0 0                                                                      
sysfs                /sys                 sysfs      noauto                0 0                                                                      
debugfs              /sys/kernel/debug    debugfs    noauto                0 0                                                                      
usbfs                /proc/bus/usb        usbfs      noauto                0 0                                                                      
devpts               /dev/pts             devpts     mode=0620,gid=5       0 0                                                                      

[08:50:23 /etc]> su -c 'fdisk -l'                                                                                                                   
Password:

Disk /dev/sda: 80.0 GB, 80000000000 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 9726 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x41172ba5

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sda1               1           4       32098+  de  Dell Utility
/dev/sda2   *           5        4339    34820887+   7  HPFS/NTFS
/dev/sda3            4340        9725    43263045    f  W95 Ext'd (LBA)
/dev/sda5            4340        6379    16386268+   b  W95 FAT32
/dev/sda6            6380        8419    16386268+   b  W95 FAT32
/dev/sda7            8420        9725    10490413+   b  W95 FAT32

Disk /dev/sdb: 80.0 GB, 80026361856 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 9729 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x8994df3d

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sdb1               1        5568    44724928+   f  W95 Ext'd (LBA)
/dev/sdb4            5569        9729    33423232+  83  Linux
/dev/sdb5               1          96      771057   82  Linux swap / Solaris
/dev/sdb6              97        2292    17639338+  83  Linux
/dev/sdb7            2293        5568    26314438+  83  Linux

Disk /dev/sdg: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x8d399bc0

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sdg1               1       12238    98301703+   7  HPFS/NTFS
/dev/sdg2           12239       24476    98301735    7  HPFS/NTFS
/dev/sdg3           24477       36714    98301735    7  HPFS/NTFS
/dev/sdg4           36715       60801   193478827+   f  W95 Ext'd (LBA)
/dev/sdg5           36715       44743    64492911    7  HPFS/NTFS
/dev/sdg6           44744       52772    64492911    7  HPFS/NTFS
/dev/sdg7           52773       60801    64492911    7  HPFS/NTFS
[08:51:17 /etc]>

This machine is an old Dell Intel 32-bit tower; 6-pin sockets. The problem machine is a 3- or 4-year-old HP AMD 64-bit laptop (with 64-bit SUSE); 4-pin socket. The drive has 6-pin sockets.

When I backed up the laptop before installing SUSE the Firewire transfer speed was about 0.75GB/minute. Is that reasonable?

[Weyland-Yutani]

I asked because I guess 400Mbits/second is something like 3GB/minute, and I think the drive maximum transfer rate is supposed to be 480Mbs.

[oldcpu]

@Weyland-Yutani

I attached the same drive to a different machine, also running openSUSE 11.1. Hot-plugged. Worked with no problem, and Dolphin sees all the partitions. … snipped …
This machine is an old Dell Intel 32-bit tower; 6-pin sockets. The problem machine is a 3- or 4-year-old HP AMD 64-bit laptop (with 64-bit SUSE); 4-pin socket. The drive has 6-pin sockets.

What is interesting there is it suggests the drive is fine (which you pretty much confirmed already by your MS-Windoze successful use) and that it works under a different openSUSE version. In both cases are you running the same desktop ? … and the only important difference that you can think of is (1) different PC hardware and (2) one PC uses 32-bit openSUSE-11.1 and the other 64-bit openSUSE-11.1 ?

@Weyland-Yutani

When I backed up the laptop before installing SUSE the Firewire transfer speed was about 0.75GB/minute. Is that reasonable?

I’m not at my Linux PC(s) setup now, so I can’t comment much on speed. And even IF I was at my Linux PC, I don’t know what would make a good speed test for firewire. I do recall my data transfers are very quick, and that the amount of RAM adds a degree of “confusion” to the reported transfer speed. My Intel Core i7 920 w/6GB of RAM is very disceptive, as it appears a massive amount of data is cached during the transfer and so its difficult to determine the actual transfer speed.

I found it intersting that you were successful with so many partitions. During the above test of yours, I noted 3 hard drives with a combined 5 primary partitions, 3 extended partitions, and 10 logical partitions for a total of 18 partitions (of which 15 directly contain files). I’m puzzling how the libata limitation of 15 partitions applies here. … Is the libata 15 partition limitation drive specific only ? or is it Linux operating system specific ? … and does it only apply to logical and primary partitions ? or does it include extended partitions when one is counting to see how many partitions relevant to libata’s limitation one has in one’s system ?

[Weyland-Yutani]

I did wonder about your previous comment on number of partitions.

I’ve been in the habit of using a lot of partitions ever since I actually had a hard-drive, circa 1983. It was a 10MB SCSI Maxtor. I still have it somewhere. I can remember running at least 20 partitions on OS/2 when it first came out, and even on a Windoze machine that was all my employer would allow me to use. :’(

I find it a good way to separate different sets of data and software, and easier to handle than folders alone. It’s a state of mind, I guess. I’ve a feeling that it might have given slightly better performance then as well, on the hard-drive technology of the time, but I don’t know for sure. I hear the opposite is true now, if anything, but again I have no proof.

So I was amazed when you came up with such a low limit for the number of partitions usable on Linux. How does that work for networked drives? I’d’ve thought that Linux could handle a lot more, in fact, not being limited by alphabetical partition/drive identifiers (like C: ) in Windows. Interesting.

Yes – both machines have KDE, and they’re running different SUSE versions, 32-bit and 64-bit, both 11.1.

[oldcpu]

@Weyland-Yutani

I did wonder about your previous comment on number of partitions.

I’ve been in the habit of using a lot of partitions ever since I actually had a hard-drive, circa 1983. It was a 10MB SCSI Maxtor. I still have it somewhere. I can remember running at least 20 partitions on OS/2 when it first came out, and even on a Windoze machine that was all my employer would allow me to use. :’(

When the use of libata was proposed, there was some debate on it, as it was noted it would impact users who liked to use a large number of partitions. …

Again, I do not know if the 15 is a libata limitation per drive, or if the 15 is a libata limiation per operating system.

[Weyland-Yutani]

Curiouser and curiouser . . .

Oldish Dell Intel 32-bit machine with openSUSE 11.1 32-bit and KDE. Has two 6-pin Firewire sockets.

WD1 and WD2 are identical Western Digital external hard-drives with Firewire connectivity.

Hot-plug WD1 – no problem – Dolphin sees all partitions.

Hot-plug WD2 – Dolphin sees nothing.

Safely remove all WD1 partitions separately (is there another way in SUSE?) – all still show in Dolphin. Restart Dolphin – still sees WD1.

Remove WD1 cable and power WD1 off – still shows in Dolphin. Restart Dolphin – still sees phantom WD1. I am not making this up.

(Dolphin still doesn’t see WD2, by the way, which is still connected and still powered on.)

Power WD2 off – WD1 [sic] disappears from Dolphin.

Power WD2 on – WD2 appears in Dolphin at last.

Reconnect WD1 and power on – Dolphin doesn’t see it.

I think I may have detected a pattern. :sarcastic:

Any Dolphin experts here?

[oldcpu]

@Weyland-Yutani

Reconnect WD1 and power on – Dolphin doesn’t see it.

Dolphin is relatively new. What sort of behaviour does konqueror give?

[Weyland-Yutani]

@oldcpu

Dolphin is relatively new. What sort of behaviour does konqueror give?

I just rebooted, with both drives connected and powered on. Only WD1 shows in Dolphin, missing one Primary partition (it was there before I rebooted). Same in Konqueror.

Here’s the usual scene-of-the-crime report. Note that /dev/sde is WD2 – the one that’s invisible to both Dolphin and Konqueror.

[16:47:49 /etc]> lsmod|grep 1394        
ohci1394               27652  1         
ieee1394               83764  2 sbp2,ohci1394

[16:48:51 /etc]> cat fstab                   
/dev/disk/by-id/ata-WDC_WD800JB-00CRA1_WD-WMA8E4523913-part5 swap                 swap       defaults              0 0
/dev/disk/by-id/ata-WDC_WD800JB-00CRA1_WD-WMA8E4523913-part6 /                    ext3       acl,user_xattr        1 1
/dev/disk/by-id/ata-WDC_WD800JB-00CRA1_WD-WMA8E4523913-part4 /home                ext3       acl,user_xattr        1 2
/dev/disk/by-id/ata-IC35L080AVVA07-0_VNC404A4H20M9F-part2 /windows/C           ntfs-3g    users,gid=users,fmask=133,dmask=022,locale=en_US.UTF-8 0 0
/dev/disk/by-id/ata-IC35L080AVVA07-0_VNC404A4H20M9F-part5 /windows/D           vfat       users,gid=users,umask=0002,utf8=true 0 0                  
/dev/disk/by-id/ata-IC35L080AVVA07-0_VNC404A4H20M9F-part6 /windows/E           vfat       users,gid=users,umask=0002,utf8=true 0 0                  
/dev/disk/by-id/ata-IC35L080AVVA07-0_VNC404A4H20M9F-part7 /windows/F           vfat       users,gid=users,umask=0002,utf8=true 0 0                  
proc                 /proc                proc       defaults              0 0                                                                      
sysfs                /sys                 sysfs      noauto                0 0                                                                      
debugfs              /sys/kernel/debug    debugfs    noauto                0 0                                                                      
usbfs                /proc/bus/usb        usbfs      noauto                0 0                                                                      
devpts               /dev/pts             devpts     mode=0620,gid=5       0 0                                                                      

[16:49:11 /etc]> su -c 'fdisk -l'                                                                                                                   
Password:                                                                                                                                           

Disk /dev/sda: 80.0 GB, 80000000000 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 9726 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x41172ba5                     

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sda1               1           4       32098+  de  Dell Utility
/dev/sda2   *           5        4339    34820887+   7  HPFS/NTFS
/dev/sda3            4340        9725    43263045    f  W95 Ext'd (LBA)
/dev/sda5            4340        6379    16386268+   b  W95 FAT32
/dev/sda6            6380        8419    16386268+   b  W95 FAT32
/dev/sda7            8420        9725    10490413+   b  W95 FAT32

Disk /dev/sdb: 80.0 GB, 80026361856 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 9729 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x8994df3d

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sdb1               1        5568    44724928+   f  W95 Ext'd (LBA)
/dev/sdb4            5569        9729    33423232+  83  Linux
/dev/sdb5               1          96      771057   82  Linux swap / Solaris
/dev/sdb6              97        2292    17639338+  83  Linux
/dev/sdb7            2293        5568    26314438+  83  Linux

Disk /dev/sde: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x3646cb0a

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sde1   *           1       60801   488384001    b  W95 FAT32

Disk /dev/sdh: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x8d399bc0

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sdh1               1       12238    98301703+   7  HPFS/NTFS
/dev/sdh2           12239       24476    98301735    7  HPFS/NTFS
/dev/sdh3           24477       36714    98301735    7  HPFS/NTFS
/dev/sdh4           36715       60801   193478827+   f  W95 Ext'd (LBA)
/dev/sdh5           36715       44743    64492911    7  HPFS/NTFS
/dev/sdh6           44744       52772    64492911    7  HPFS/NTFS
/dev/sdh7           52773       60801    64492911    7  HPFS/NTFS
[16:50:02 /etc]>

[oldcpu]

@Weyland-Yutani

Here’s the usual scene-of-the-crime report. Note that /dev/sde is WD2 – the one that’s invisible to both Dolphin and Konqueror.

… I assume it mounts manually, thou, with no problem?

[Weyland-Yutani]

I haven’t officially reported this as a bug because I’ve been unable to reliably replicate the problem. It seems to be a moving target. If nobody reports something similar I guess I’ll blame dæmonic intervention. Again.

Transfer Speed Department: Using the command su -c 'hdparm -t /dev/sdx**’** I notice that Firewire performance is not all that much better than USB on the two machines I’ve tried it on (with the same external HDD). This is vanilla Firewire 400 and USB 2.0, averages of four runs.

Machine 1: USB 27 MB/s; Firewire 30 MB/s

Machine 2: USB 20 MB/s; Firewire 23 MB/s

I know it’s a crude test, but surely indicative of something?

I’m waiting until Firewire 800 cards get a bit cheaper before I invest. Is it really twice as fast?

[One of the machines has USB1 as well. That delivers less than 1MB/s for the same test.]