Well, I don’t use game consoles, but the kids do (now 18 and 21 years old, hmm, kids??) ,we have 2 TV sets, one in the lounge room, and one in the ‘games room’, the ‘games room’ one, I am told recently started not displaying the games correctly, so they were allowed to play these games on the lounge room TV. Both TVs were CRTs, the lounge room one worked for a while, then died, sort-off, It still displayed all images and colours, but the colours were in rings, from the centre of the screen out, leading me to believe that the circuits used to control the images were damaged. The TV is not worth reparing, (they don’t even come with a decent wiring diagram any more). We replaced the TV.
I am now told, the problem occurred after a game or two was bought that require running at 60hz (every thing else in Australia runs at 50hz PAL)
Why should any game require a 20% overclock just to run? Would you want your CPU overclocked by 20% without knoweledge of the risks? (Ok, so it may not be a CPU overclock, but It’s an overclock of the circuits that provide the image.)
I’m interested in the experience of others, and any thoughts on this,!
As to understand that you are not “OC’ing” anything, it’s merely a different method of displaying the picture that the TV supported (or it would have given you an image at all) and as such it merely broke down as it would have with any other “normal” material.
I think you should examine the differences between 50Hz (PAL) and 60Hz (NTSC)
I have done that, so why demand 60Hz for PAL?
and it should not be recognised ! ( some room for error yes, but 20% ? never! )
Check the requirements for “Fable III” ( The version sold in Australia, ). There are others.
On Wed, 09 Feb 2011 16:36:02 +0000, dvhenry wrote:
>> I think you should examine the differences between 50Hz (PAL) and 60Hz
>> (NTSC)
>>
> I have done that, so why demand 60Hz for PAL? and it should not be
> recognised ! ( some room for error yes, but 20% ? never! )
> Check the requirements for “Fable III” ( The version sold in Australia,
> ). There are others.
Sounds like a question you should ask the producer of the game or console
in question.
a 60Hz signal doesn’t harm the TV. It usually will just go blank when you try it and the TV cannot display it.
As Chrysantine said, it isn’t like overclocking a CPU, it is only the signal frequency.
a 60Hz signal doesn’t harm the TV. It usually will just go blank when you try it and the TV cannot display it.
As Chrysantine said, it isn’t like overclocking a CPU, it is only the signal frequency.
In this case, one TV shows the images incorrectly, the other one showed the images correctly until it died, (these are old CRT’s) It could be a coincidence,
The standard for PAL here is 50Hz, Where is 60Hz mentioned? If the system agrees to run this at 60Hz (which it should not, unless designed to do so, it is NOT a standard!) It is then running some circuits 20% faster than the standard, or have I missed something?
Many 1990s onwards VCR players sold in Europe can play back NTSC tapes/discs. When operating in this mode most of them do not output a true (625/25) PAL signal but rather a hybrid consisting of the original NTSC line standard (525/30) but with colour converted to PAL 4.43 MHz - this is known as “PAL 60” (also “quasi-PAL” or “pseudo PAL”) with “60” standing for 60 Hz (for 525/30), instead of 50 Hz (for 625/25). Some video game consoles also output a signal in this mode. Most newer television sets can display such a signal correctly but some will only do so (if at all) in black and white and/or with flickering/foldover at the bottom of the picture, or picture rolling (however, many old TV sets can display the picture properly by means of adjusting the V-Hold and V-Height knobs — assuming they have them). Some TV tuner cards or video capture cards will support this mode (although software/driver modification can be required and the manufacturers’ specs may be unclear). A “PAL 60” signal is similar to an NTSC (525/30) signal but with the usual PAL chrominance subcarrier at 4.43 MHz (instead of 3.58 as with NTSC and South American PAL variants) and with the PAL-specific phase alternation of the red colour difference signal between the lines.
Perhaps my hardware is just too old?
On 2011-02-10 13:36, dvhenry wrote:
>
>> a 60Hz signal doesn’t harm the TV. It usually will just go blank when
>> you try it and the TV cannot display it.
>> As Chrysantine said, it isn’t like overclocking a CPU, it is only the
>> signal frequency.
> In this case, one TV shows the images incorrectly, the other one showed
> the images correctly until it died, (these are old CRT’s) It could be a
> coincidence,
Some of the circuits are relatively high power coils. A frequency change
would change voltage levels, and things could perhaps break. A TV set is
not a computer display: TVs were designed to work with one defined signal,
monitors with several.
TV set design was clever, active components (valves originally) were
expensive so elements served several purposes: for example it used the
retrace to produce a high voltage for the CRT anode. I have the details
foggy, I think it was called “line transformer”. Making an old TV set work
out of the design parameters could have consequences.
I had a friend that would know about this and could explain better, but
alas, he died.
Games are also “clever”. Some used crt timing for the game internal timing:
I thought this practice had disappeared with the modern PC, but aparently
it hasn’t in consoles (guessing from what you say), so they need to run the
display at the original design frequency.
Too bad :-.(
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 11.2 x86_64 “Emerald” at Telcontar)
On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 05:06:01 +0000, dvhenry wrote:
>> Sounds like a question you should ask the producer of the game or
>> console
>> in question.
>>
> I may well do that, but this is “General Chit Chat”, I see no harm with
> commenting on it here.
Oh, sure, but it occurs to me that if the goal is to get help with the
problem, expertise might be the way to go, that’s all.
I left a smiley off that last post, so I can see how it might be taken as
“don’t talk about this here”, which is not what I meant.
[QUOTESome of the circuits are relatively high power coils. A frequency change
would change voltage levels, and things could perhaps break. A TV set is
not a computer display: TVs were designed to work with one defined signal,
monitors with several.
TV set design was clever, active components (valves originally) were
expensive so elements served several purposes: for example it used the
retrace to produce a high voltage for the CRT anode. I have the details
foggy, I think it was called “line transformer”. Making an old TV set work
out of the design parameters could have consequences.
I had a friend that would know about this and could explain better, but
alas, he died.
Games are also “clever”. Some used crt timing for the game internal timing:
I thought this practice had disappeared with the modern PC, but aparently
it hasn’t in consoles (guessing from what you say), so they need to run the
display at the original design frequency.
Too bad :-.(][/QUOTE]
This is close to what I remember from my electronics courses, ( decades ago, and only as a hobby, or interest, never part of my employement ).
Oh, sure, but it occurs to me that if the goal is to get help with the
problem, expertise might be the way to go, that’s all.
I have decided locating and repairing the problem on the dead TV is not worth the effort for me.
For the other TV, I’m wondering if it’s worth the effort? I will have a closer look at that .
I left a smiley off that last post, so I can see how it might be taken as
“don’t talk about this here”, which is not what I meant.
No offence taken! I just thought the topic was worth discussion.
