DRM and the free world

[robin_listas]

On 2011-02-25 23:57, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 20:20:06 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:

>> Germany gets nothing because they produce nothing.
>
> They provide part of the infrastructure for the delivery of the virtual
> widget.

Nay, you pay them.

That is, you are the user, you pay the ISP, the ISP pays the
infrastructure. It doesn’t matter if you buy peanuts or download all the
Linux distros of the world

It is as if you have to pay the road not by weight and number of wheels of
your car, but depending on the load being straw bales or gold ingots.

Reminds me… Around the beginning of last century in my country we had to
pay taxes as you entered each city or crossed certain bridges. Today I can
even go all the way to Germany without crossing or paying customs. That’s
progress. Nice. The same should happen to internet.

> But more importantly, you have to get politicians to agree to that
> scheme, and you know how difficult that can be.

Ah, yes…

You can not live without them, you can not live with them. :-p

>> Well, that situation happens to many companies without internet in the
>> picture.
>
> Yep, but it again shows the complexities of taxation.

I know that very well! I suffer, I suffer it very much once a year, having
to fill the tax forms!

Life should be simpler.

>>> Now from the customer’s point of view, yes, they would only pay the BBC
>>> in your example, but the BBC would be responsible for paying the taxes
>>> to the various regulatory bodies involved. If they don’t pay the taxes
>>> owed, and they get caught, they get fined more than the taxes.
>>
>> The taxes should be the same regardless of who buys the movies.
>
> Well, that I don’t disagree on - the customer shouldn’t have to worry
> about the behind-the-scenes distribution/division of the payment.
>
> It’s the simplification of the division of payment, though (because of
> the taxes), that makes (for example) the BBC decide not to offer their
> product outside the UK.

Which is a royal pain for us customers.

> Having just done my US income taxes, I can understand not wanting the
> headache.

I know, so my system would be far better

>>> Changing the law isn’t so simple, either, because it’s not just one
>>> country’s law that’s involved.
>>
>> I know. Dump those countries
>>
>> (I should be a treckie: no countries, just planets )
>
> I’m with you on that, Carlos, absolutely.

X’-)

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.2 x86_64 “Emerald” at Telcontar)

[hendersj]

On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 23:33:07 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:

>> They provide part of the infrastructure for the delivery of the virtual
>> widget.
>
> Nay, you pay them.
>
> That is, you are the user, you pay the ISP, the ISP pays the
> infrastructure. It doesn’t matter if you buy peanuts or download all the
> Linux distros of the world
>
> It is as if you have to pay the road not by weight and number of wheels
> of your car, but depending on the load being straw bales or gold ingots.
>
> Reminds me… Around the beginning of last century in my country we had
> to pay taxes as you entered each city or crossed certain bridges. Today
> I can even go all the way to Germany without crossing or paying customs.
> That’s progress. Nice. The same should happen to internet.

All fair points, I’ll concede that.

>> But more importantly, you have to get politicians to agree to that
>> scheme, and you know how difficult that can be.
>
> Ah, yes…
>
> You can not live without them, you can not live with them. :-p

Indeed that’s true.

>>> Well, that situation happens to many companies without internet in the
>>> picture.
>>
>> Yep, but it again shows the complexities of taxation.
>
> I know that very well! I suffer, I suffer it very much once a year,
> having to fill the tax forms!
>
> Life should be simpler.

I spent I don’t know how much time yesterday evening trying to figure out
how to properly report my sales of Novell stock. More complicated
because it was the Employee Stock Purchase Program, which at the time
offered a discount on the shares - the discount gets reported as income,
so it’s part of the gain, but not all of what I made on the sale of the
stock was reported on my W2 (but it was all reported by the broker).

So figuring out the “cost basis” minus the discount (since that was
already reported) gave me a headache for days - and even having it
explained to me twice, I still had trouble grasping it until the very
end, when it all finally clicked together.

It helps when you can derive the numbers that you’re given from other
numbers that you’re given. At first, I wasn’t even able to do that.

>>>> Now from the customer’s point of view, yes, they would only pay the
>>>> BBC in your example, but the BBC would be responsible for paying the
>>>> taxes to the various regulatory bodies involved. If they don’t pay
>>>> the taxes owed, and they get caught, they get fined more than the
>>>> taxes.
>>>
>>> The taxes should be the same regardless of who buys the movies.
>>
>> Well, that I don’t disagree on - the customer shouldn’t have to worry
>> about the behind-the-scenes distribution/division of the payment.
>>
>> It’s the simplification of the division of payment, though (because of
>> the taxes), that makes (for example) the BBC decide not to offer their
>> product outside the UK.
>
> Which is a royal pain for us customers.

Yep, no argument. But I can see it from the BBC’s point of view as well

• if they license iPlayer to users outside the UK (for all of their
  content, because some of it can be obtained outside the UK legally, radio
  programmes mostly, IIRC), then the PBS stations in the US have less
  reason to want to license the content for their markets.

So if the BBC can get more than they would from the PBS stations, then it
makes sense to make the product available direct from the UK. If they
make more money through PBS licensing, then it makes sense to keep the
existing model in place (unless they want to lose money - or are at least
not in the business of making a profit).

>> Having just done my US income taxes, I can understand not wanting the
>> headache.
>
> I know, so my system would be far better

No argument.

Jim

Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

[robin_listas]

On 2011-02-26 01:41, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 23:33:07 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:

>> Life should be simpler.
…

> end, when it all finally clicked together.

Now, imagine you inherit two shares, and have to make the tax return for
you and the deceased, and put the buying price for those two shares,
several years ago, and the selling price. Go hunting for the receipt all
over the stack of papers…

I’m starting to get bald. No, that was earlier… Yeah, my hair guessed the
future and jumped out of the train in advance.

And no, those two shares are not worth a thousand euros. Perhaps a 10 or
100 total. But if you ignore that ridiculous part, papa tax constabulary
will come and hunt us.

>> Which is a royal pain for us customers.

(I meant us (pronoun), not US (country) )

>
> Yep, no argument. But I can see it from the BBC’s point of view as well
> - if they license iPlayer to users outside the UK (for all of their
> content, because some of it can be obtained outside the UK legally, radio
> programmes mostly, IIRC), then the PBS stations in the US have less
> reason to want to license the content for their markets.
>
> So if the BBC can get more than they would from the PBS stations, then it
> makes sense to make the product available direct from the UK. If they
> make more money through PBS licensing, then it makes sense to keep the
> existing model in place (unless they want to lose money - or are at least
> not in the business of making a profit).

Arghhhh!

Lets change the world… Uh, no, I’m too sleepy.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.2 x86_64 “Emerald” at Telcontar)

[hendersj]

On Sat, 26 Feb 2011 01:20:07 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:

>>> Life should be simpler.
> …
>
>> end, when it all finally clicked together.
>
> Now, imagine you inherit two shares, and have to make the tax return for
> you and the deceased, and put the buying price for those two shares,
> several years ago, and the selling price. Go hunting for the receipt all
> over the stack of papers…

Oh, I don’t need to imagine it. While I didn’t inherit the shares, I
acquired them in 2003 and 2004. Took a while to find the actual purchase
information for them so I could even see what the exact purchase price
was.

> I’m starting to get bald. No, that was earlier… Yeah, my hair guessed
> the future and jumped out of the train in advance.

LOL, mine might just do that as well.

> And no, those two shares are not worth a thousand euros. Perhaps a 10 or
> 100 total. But if you ignore that ridiculous part, papa tax constabulary
> will come and hunt us.

Yeah, that’s why I was so meticulous in sorting through my papers. I
didn’t want what worked out to about a $1500 net gain on my shares (took
a slight loss on some, and a significant gain on others) and about $600
of reported income to cause an audit to be flagged.

But it’s now been a day, and I still have a headache (no joke…).

>>> Which is a royal pain for us customers.
>
> (I meant us (pronoun), not US (country) )

Oh, I think I got that.

>> Yep, no argument. But I can see it from the BBC’s point of view as
>> well - if they license iPlayer to users outside the UK (for all of
>> their content, because some of it can be obtained outside the UK
>> legally, radio programmes mostly, IIRC), then the PBS stations in the
>> US have less reason to want to license the content for their markets.
>>
>> So if the BBC can get more than they would from the PBS stations, then
>> it makes sense to make the product available direct from the UK. If
>> they make more money through PBS licensing, then it makes sense to keep
>> the existing model in place (unless they want to lose money - or are at
>> least not in the business of making a profit).
>
> Arghhhh!
>
> Lets change the world… Uh, no, I’m too sleepy.

I know the feeling.

Jim

–
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C