Downgrading 12.1 to 11.4 or installing other distro

Hi everyone,

A couple of days ago, I made the worst decision of my life, and that’s to upgrade from 11.3 to 12.1 without reading the reviews out there. 11.3 had declared end of support so was a good case for upgrading and why not to the flash new release.

I first upgraded using the zypper dup, but that died in the backside halfway after it lost the ability to connect to the Internet and eventually halted incompletel. Nothing would run at that point as the installation had removed libstdc++ 6 which everything depends on :slight_smile:

I then downloaded the 12.1 64 bit DVD image, burnt it on a DVD and upgraded using that. I’m running KDE 3 and it’s all running on a beefy Lenovo T510 64 bit.

Here are only a few of my problems:

  1. Restarting usually doesn’t work. it hangs on the green screen (on the way down) and I have to shutdown by holding the power button. Every now and it restarts normally.
  2. Time and Date goes out of wack after restarting and I have to set it everytime. I’ve used the three tools that come up when searching for time in the suse menu: Date & time, Date & time with a different logo, and Date & Time/KDE3.
  3. Wifi is totally unstable. It connects and disconnects. Everytime it opens the KDE Wallet for password, which keeps popping up for password every couple of minutes, there seems to be no option for it to remember the password. The same wifi I always used at home and was good until 2 days ago, keeps dropping out. Same situation when I use wifi outside.
  4. After hibernating, sometimes I get the common problem with KDE plasma, nothing works, mouse clicks don’t achieve anything. It takes 5 minutes for things to gradually gain consciousness.
  5. The applications I use on daily basis are buggy and don’t work properly. I’ve used Amarok for about 10 years ( or since very early versions) to manage my music. For the first time it’s lost my music collection and doesn’t update. ‘Update Collection’ doesn’t do anything.
  6. plenty of other problems …

Overall I’m really really disappointed and am looking at either downgrading to 11.4 in a way that my settings are kept, or installing something stable ( considering redhat and CentOS now).

I’d be grateful if people you can share your experience with downgrading 12.1 to 11.4 or installing other distro in a way that settings aren’t lost. otherwise, if you’ve experienced any of these issues and have managed to get around them please let me know what you did.

We’re using opensuse for business and were considering going suse enterprise, but after this we’ll be looking for a quick way out. It sometimes makes me wonder if there’s any REAL quality assurance in place, and whether the person responsible for giving the go ahead for a releasing the new distro actually uses windows 7 at home.

Cheers,
_sb

This is just my own experience, but I’ve never had much luck with upgrades. It also sounds like you have a borked upgrade due to the Internet dying. I just do a clean install, saves lots of time usually. For me 12.1 has been the most stable version I’ve used. If you have a separate /home directory you should be able to just do a clean install and reuse your /home directory. As far as stability goes, I haven’t seen anything more stable than openSUSE. Debian has a long release cycle but it will be quite a change from what you have now. Also, the apps in Debian are going to be not the most recent versions. They may, in fact, be quite out of date.

On 03/02/2012 04:46 AM, shukuboy wrote:
> We’re using opensuse for business and were considering going suse
> enterprise, but after this we’ll be looking for a quick way out.

-=WELCOME=- new poster…but it is really too unfortunate that your
second entry here is a tale of fear, uncertainty and doubt about the
“REAL quality assurance” of this distro…

my advice has always been to READ and follow directions…had you done
that you would have found three valid, supported and recommended ways to
‘upgrade’ your already past end of life system:
http://tinyurl.com/35p966c
http://tinyurl.com/6kvoflv
http://tinyurl.com/7l4m2td

only one of which (the last one, a work still in progress) offers a
direct path from 11.3 to 12.1–and all of which contain sufficient
cautions and warnings to put me off from trying an ‘upgrade’…

that is to say, i always

  1. save off data, configs
  2. fresh format and install
  3. re-build system & and rejoin data

and, that is exactly my prescription for the situation into which you
have now placed yourself, except i’ll change the first to: 1) rescue data

if you wish to make the second step an install to a different distro, no
problem…that is your choice…but your “quick way out” to change
distros from openSUSE to SLED, Red Hat or CentOS will not resolve the
system administration error nor internet drop-out which caused the
upgrade to fail…

btw: i consider your last line an intentional insult to this
community…on the other hand, i’m running 11.4 as my daily driver and
hope 12.1 will settle out soon…


DD http://tinyurl.com/DD-Caveat http://tinyurl.com/DD-Hardware
http://tinyurl.com/DD-Software
What does DistroWatch write about YOU?: http://tinyurl.com/SUSEonDW

On 2012-03-02 04:46, shukuboy wrote:

> I then downloaded the 12.1 64 bit DVD image, burnt it on a DVD and
> upgraded using that.

http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Offline_upgrade

> 2) Time and Date goes out of wack after restarting and I have to set it
> everytime. I’ve used the three tools that come up when searching for
> time in the suse menu: Date & time, Date & time with a different logo,
> and Date & Time/KDE3.

Use the CLI as root to set time up. Then delete the adjustement file, then
recreate it by copying the time to the cmos clock.

> 6) plenty of other problems …

There are updated KDE versions that probably solve some of those problems,
but try the advices in the above link first.

Downgrading a distro is only possible via zypper dup, but there is no
documented description of the procedure that I know of.

> We’re using opensuse for business and were considering going suse
> enterprise, but after this we’ll be looking for a quick way out.

The enterprise version is very different. For once, you don’t upgrade it in
years. Stability is the important thing, not flashy new versions.

> It
> sometimes makes me wonder if there’s any REAL quality assurance in
> place, and whether the person responsible for giving the go ahead for a
> releasing the new distro actually uses windows 7 at home.

Please remember that many things are done by volunteers, it is a best
effort at best.

You are the quality assurance department. You are the person responsible
for testing it.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” at Telcontar)

On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 03:46:02 +0000, shukuboy wrote:

> It sometimes makes me wonder if there’s any REAL quality assurance in
> place, and whether the person responsible for giving the go ahead for a
> releasing the new distro actually uses windows 7 at home.

Beta cycles are available for people to test, and they do get tested.
Several of the issues you describe were identified shortly after released
and fixed - so you should also put updates on the system.

In addition, the SUSE Linux Enterprise products go through formal product
testing at SUSE. openSUSE is the basis for those products, but SLES/SLED
are often a better choice for a corporate environment, because they’re
backed by 24x7 phone support and updates are provided for a longer term
than for most openSUSE releases (the only exception that immediately
comes to mind is the Tumbleweed release of openSUSE, which is a rolling
upgrade).

Just a little friendly advice - making statements like the above that
sound like “ultimatums” aren’t going to get you faster/better help - and
engaging in personal attacks is against the terms & conditions of the use
of these forums. Please keep that in mind.

Jim


Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

On 2012-03-02 11:16, Jim Henderson wrote:
> backed by 24x7 phone support and updates are provided for a longer term
> than for most openSUSE releases (the only exception that immediately
> comes to mind is the Tumbleweed release of openSUSE, which is a rolling
> upgrade).

I think that the best comparison would be to Evergreen, as a kind of LTS
openSUSE, not Tunbleweed.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” at Telcontar)

On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 10:38:06 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> On 2012-03-02 11:16, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> backed by 24x7 phone support and updates are provided for a longer term
>> than for most openSUSE releases (the only exception that immediately
>> comes to mind is the Tumbleweed release of openSUSE, which is a rolling
>> upgrade).
>
> I think that the best comparison would be to Evergreen, as a kind of LTS
> openSUSE, not Tunbleweed.

True - it’s after 3 AM here, and I was trying to recall which was which -
Evergreen is what I was thinking of, I guess, and my fingers just didn’t
cooperate. :slight_smile:

Jim


Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

On 2012-03-02 12:07, Jim Henderson wrote:
> True - it’s after 3 AM here, and I was trying to recall which was which -
> Evergreen is what I was thinking of, I guess, and my fingers just didn’t
> cooperate. :slight_smile:

:slight_smile:

Take a nice hot relaxing tissana and go back to bed :slight_smile:


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” at Telcontar)

On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 11:13:06 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> On 2012-03-02 12:07, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> True - it’s after 3 AM here, and I was trying to recall which was which
>> -
>> Evergreen is what I was thinking of, I guess, and my fingers just
>> didn’t cooperate. :slight_smile:
>
> :slight_smile:
>
> Take a nice hot relaxing tissana and go back to bed :slight_smile:

:slight_smile:

Soon. Gotta work tomorrow - stuff to catch up on. :slight_smile:

Jim


Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

I note that you said that you are still stuck on KDE3. Now KDE3 was cool but got to the point that maintenance was a pain. KDE3 is NOT official supported and no telling what is need to move it to the 3.X kernels and Xwindows. I can understand reluctance to move to 4.X when it first cam e out but really KDE 4 above 4.5 is just great. Does it do all the KDE 3.5 did? No, but then it does thing KDE3.X could only dream about. If you want a stable long term OS then go to the commercial versions with 5+ years life.

Am 02.03.2012 23:46, schrieb gogalthorp:
>
> I note that you said that you are still stuck on KDE3. Now KDE3 was
> cool but got to the point that maintenance was a pain. KDE3 is NOT
> official supported and no telling what is need to move it to the 3.X
> kernels and Xwindows. I can understand reluctance to move to 4.X when
> it first cam e out but really KDE 4 above 4.5 is just great. Does it
> do all the KDE 3.5 did? No, but then it does thing KDE3.X could only
> dream about. If you want a stable long term OS then go to the
> commercial versions with 5+ years life.
>
There is absolutely no problem to run KDE3 on openSUSE 12.1, in fact I
have one 12.1 system where I installed it, it is also supported in that
it is in the oss repo, there is a special opensuse mailing list for it
and bug fixes are done as one can see looking at their posts.
I preferred to add the kde3 community repo in addition.

So if someone really wants to keep KDE3 and at the same time an up to
date openSUSE it is possible.

Btw to call a DE which is supported by volunteer developers and
packagers from openSUSE, Chakra and others as unsupported makes me now
ask the question: What is needed to call a FOSS project supported if
that is not enough.

http://en.opensuse.org/KDE3


PC: oS 11.4 (dual boot 12.1) 64 bit | Intel Core i7-2600@3.40GHz | KDE
4.6.0 | GeForce GT 420 | 16GB Ram
Eee PC 1201n: oS 11.4 64 bit | Intel Atom 330@1.60GHz | KDE 4.8.0 |
nVidia ION | 3GB Ram

FYI -
Take a look at my recent upgrade from 11.3 > 12.1, see what might be relevant to your situation (as I noted, if you have an nVidia GPU, it’s a critical consideration, another important thing to know is how to switch to sysvinit from systemd if necessary). Do take a look at the bugzilla link in my post, although the forum post is more detailed in User steps, the bugzilla is slightly more detailed in the technical issues.

http://forums.opensuse.org/english/get-technical-help-here/how-faq-forums/unreviewed-how-faq/472361-upgrading-nvidia-driver-includes-useful-info-new-installs.html

I’d still recommend you try the following:

1.Critical is to get yourself to a reliable Internet connection. If your wireless isn’t currently reliable, use wired.
2. Do a DVD-based install/repair. Select online updates and packages whenever and wherever possible. Depending on your Internet bandwidth, consider you’ll likely be downloading approx 2GB of package files.
3. After you finish installing, do a “zypper up” to further check that all the latest packages are installed.

My guess that although the repair will likely take anywhere from half to a full day, it’ll result in a stable, working system (and how can you put a price on that?). And, IMO your system should be recoverable if you have your DVD and a reliable Internet connection, as my post describes I was able to recover from a number of issues encountered during the process.

TS

Honestly I would not try to repair that system, instead a full backup of
/home and then a clean install with reformatting the drive of openSUSE 12.1.
For KDE3 install the minimal pattern + X11 in the installer and then add
the kde3 repository and follow that link

http://en.opensuse.org/KDE3

my 2ct


PC: oS 11.4 (dual boot 12.1) 64 bit | Intel Core i7-2600@3.40GHz | KDE
4.6.0 | GeForce GT 420 | 16GB Ram
Eee PC 1201n: oS 11.4 64 bit | Intel Atom 330@1.60GHz | KDE 4.8.0 |
nVidia ION | 3GB Ram

Not saying you can not run KDE3 it is the upgrade that may not work the normal upgrade from a DVD does not include KDE3 (OpenSuse 11.3) so you will have many mismatched packages.

Am 03.03.2012 01:26, schrieb gogalthorp:
>
> Not saying you can not run KDE3 it is the upgrade that may not work
> the normal upgrade from a DVD does not include KDE3 (OpenSuse 11.3)
> so you will have many mismatched packages.
>
That is definitely true, this is essentially the reason I recommend a
clean install here.
In fact an upgrade with community repos enabled can work (I migrated a
system with 4 extra repositories in addition to the usual gang of four
oss - update - nonoss - packman) without much problems via “zypper dup”
on run level 3 from 11.3 to 11.4 to 12.1 only solving maybe a dozen of
conflicts by hand.
But of course that is not supported and also not officially recommended
and depends a whole lot on the repositories.
And of course I did a full system backup (a simple dd of the complete
harddisk in that case) foe easy roll back to the original state in case
something goes wrong.

Given the situation here it is near to impossible IMHO to diagnose what
the root causes for the several problems really are (the borked upgrade?
glitches with 12.1 with the hardware? something else).

Not only that the upgrade was done with software from extra repos it was
also obviously done in one step which is at least for zypper dup NOT
supported for two versions at once.

So again I would save all my files, discard that mess and cleanup the
system from ground of with a new install.


PC: oS 11.4 (dual boot 12.1) 64 bit | Intel Core i7-2600@3.40GHz | KDE
4.6.0 | GeForce GT 420 | 16GB Ram
Eee PC 1201n: oS 11.4 64 bit | Intel Atom 330@1.60GHz | KDE 4.8.0 |
nVidia ION | 3GB Ram

Thanks everyone for your reply, plenty of useful advice to try out.

To start, let me straighten things up, I’ve had a great experience with 11.3, and I guess was hoping that 12.1 would turn out just like that and a bit better. The truth of the matter is, I’m using this machine as a development machine and have quite a lot of things including development tools, servers, IDEs, deployment apps, and plenty of customisation and shortcuts configured on it. A full re-install would take a good 2 or 3 days to set everything up the way it was, and that I can’t afford to do. If it was just a matter of backing up a handful of files, I would have definitely gone with a fresh install.

DenverD, I didn’t mean to (=unintentional) launch an attack on anyone, apologies if you took it that way. It was more like an unintentional whinge. What I was after was what Jim described in his post. I’ve been using linux for business for at least 5 years. I’ve used anything from Ubuntu, Fedora, Debian, red hat and in the past couple of years Suse. Stability of my system means a lot to me and I wish the website would have suggested I upgrade to 11.4 for that reason. The fact that you’re using 11.4 and you have plenty of post on the forum is a good indication of that.

Carlos, Martin, Jim, thanks for your advice. I’m actually on KDE 4.7. I think I have successfully confused everyone including myself by mentioning Time & Date/KDE3. Not sure why that’s there, but there are a handful of KDE 3 leftovers I can still see when I search on the suse menu. Another one is Country/Language & Region/KDE3. Are they suppose to be there ? or could it be just the names aren’t up to date. I installed a couple of updates that were available today and tempered around with System D and managed to get a semi stable system. The problem with the reboot is mostly gone after tempering with System D and removing all nasty signs of System V. But there are still some sporadic issues. I’ll battle the system for a bit longer before giving in to a fresh install.

Jim, I’ll look into the Suse enterprise, that might be the right way to go to get something really stable going.

Cheers,
_sb

On 03/03/2012 10:26 AM, shukuboy wrote:
> Stability of my system means a lot to me and I wish the website would
> have suggested I upgrade to 11.4 for that reason.

i am (obviously) not King of “the website” (either the Wiki or the
Forum) and have less influence than most over which versions are
‘pushed’ onto unsuspecting users by our “Marketing Team” and which are not…

on the other hand, it is important to have as large a testing base for
the SUSE Linux Enterprise products as possible…so, its a rather
tight rope.


DD
What does DistroWatch write about YOU?: http://tinyurl.com/SUSEonDW

On 2012-03-03 02:01, Martin Helm wrote:
> Not only that the upgrade was done with software from extra repos it was
> also obviously done in one step which is at least for zypper dup NOT
> supported for two versions at once.

But his upgrade was done offline, via DVD, not via dup. His dup failed
after he lost internet.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” at Telcontar)

On 2012-03-03 10:26, shukuboy wrote:
> Carlos, Martin, Jim, thanks for your advice. I’m actually on KDE 4.7.
> I think I have successfully confused everyone including myself by
> mentioning Time & Date/KDE3. Not sure why that’s there, but there are a
> handful of KDE 3 leftovers I can still see when I search on the suse
> menu. Another one is Country/Language & Region/KDE3. Are they suppose
> to be there ? or could it be just the names aren’t up to date.

I think that may be because you haven’t done what I recommended in the link
I posted, section “After the upgrade”.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” at Telcontar)

Am 03.03.2012 16:53, schrieb Carlos E. R.:
> On 2012-03-03 02:01, Martin Helm wrote:
>> Not only that the upgrade was done with software from extra repos it was
>> also obviously done in one step which is at least for zypper dup NOT
>> supported for two versions at once.
>
> But his upgrade was done offline, via DVD, not via dup. His dup failed
> after he lost internet.
>
Yes I have read that, but it had a history before, it does not seem that
the system was then set back after the failed dup to the original state
and from that original state upgraded with the DVD method at least I
cannot read that important step somewhere.
So from the given explanation in the first post I have to see it that
way: First the unsupported operation was done leading to a completely
unknown and unworkable state and that was then “repaired” by an
additional “upgrade” step offline via DVD.
This combination can for sure not been seen as anything supported in total.
What was done in total I would describe not at all as an upgrade with
DVD but as an attempt to repair a broken system in an unknown state with
a DVD.

If I misunderstand the situation I am sorry, but I can only infer from
what is written here in the posts given.


PC: oS 11.4 (dual boot 12.1) 64 bit | Intel Core i7-2600@3.40GHz | KDE
4.6.0 | GeForce GT 420 | 16GB Ram
Eee PC 1201n: oS 11.4 64 bit | Intel Atom 330@1.60GHz | KDE 4.8.0 |
nVidia ION | 3GB Ram