Does the Creative X-Fi Titanium work with 11.4

There is a basic driver for it. I was wondering if anyone got it to work.

Or is there another card that has been used successfully, especially with recording from a microphone.

I am getting poor input from the mic source. Levels are low and broken up. Extensive research has pointed to ALSA/PulseAudio not being able to fine tune all sound cards. I am using the onboard currently, an ALC262.

In the meantime I was tempted to set the priorities higher for sound in general, in other words tweak ALSA and PA. Reason being is that many across a few distros have problems when resources are squeezed, like the times when proc load is at or near 100%, for example. I do not know how to tweak sound. Does anyone know?

I still want to try the Titanium since it could be utilized in 7 (ouch) as a luxury for recording “what you hear”, and for superior sound reproduction as well.

Thanks.

There is a basic driver for it. I was wondering if anyone got it to work.

Or is there another card that has been used successfully, especially with recording from a microphone.

I am getting poor input from the mic source. Levels are low and broken up. Extensive research has pointed to ALSA/PulseAudio not being able to fine tune all sound cards. I am using the onboard currently, an ALC262.

In the meantime I was tempted to set the priorities higher for sound in general, in other words tweak ALSA and PA. Reason being is that many across a few distros have problems when resources are squeezed, like the times when proc load is at or near 100%, for example. I do not know how to tweak sound. Does anyone know?

I still want to try the Titanium since it could be utilized in 7 (ouch) as a luxury for recording “what you hear”, and for superior sound reproduction as well.

Thanks.

I have two Creative PCI Express Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty cards (fully covered in a black metal shield and supports HD Audio IN/OUT Case Panel) working in openSUSE 11.4 (with Pulse Running). I have added in the XFCE-Mixer as it gives me Alsa like control of inputs and Outputs in pulse though several people claim to get the same from the Pulse Audio Volume Control (pavucontrol) when installed. I have been able to record from the mic, but I don’t use Skype or any similar program. I highly recommend the usage of Creative Sound cards and only ever ran into one Creative sound card (had no X-Fi Chipset) that would not work in openSUSE. All claim to support digital in and out, but lesser expensive models may require a hard to find I/O Module or oddly configured optical connection. If I was going to use digital out (which I do) go for an 0utput you can find cables for at any audio store.

Thank You,

Here are the controls you see in the XFCE Mixer Application:

Capture Section…

http://thumbnails53.imagebam.com/13818/95d7a1138170481.jpg](http://www.imagebam.com/image/95d7a1138170481)

Playback Section …

http://thumbnails47.imagebam.com/13818/54452a138170487.jpg](http://www.imagebam.com/image/54452a138170487)

It possible this might be helpful to you.

Thank You,

Thanks. Yes, the older cards do not have a Linux driver. The higher end Fata1ty has the shielding and supposedly better circuits but for my application, speech recognition command and control, it probably is not necessary. I just need the mic to work properly. So I am installing a card to get another driver. If a good deal shows up with the Fatal1ty, I will pounce on it. I hope the driver self-installs or goes in easy!!

Thanks for the tip on the XFCE mixer. I may try that now. Who knows, it may solve the problem.

Ok, the Fatal1ty went in without a hitch. The OS recognized it and installed the driver. One day it did not work at all even after resetting the card in YaST2. So I installed the basic driver from ALSA, which I believe is the same one, and it worked again. But now I do not have a mic gain control in alsamixer. I was so excited that my app worked with the card, I failed to record the fact if I ever had a gain control with this card.

I do not know if the the ALSA driver knocked it out or if it was never there in the first place. Since then I have reset the card but I am not sure what driver prevails now.

The gain control is a must for the app.

Any help thanks.

Why not open YaST / Software / Software Management and search on xfce4-mixer and once found install it and any other dependencies. If you look at my previous message, you see that the microphone control is present in this mixer. I still have Pulsaudio installed and running and added in only this extra mixer.

Thank You,

One way to illustrate to both yourself and others as to the hardware and software configuration of your PC’s audio setup is with your PC connected to the internet is to run the diagnostic script:


/usr/sbin/alsa-info-sh

and select the SHARE/Upload option, and that will give you a website URL/address after the script finally completes. Copy that address/URL and post it here on this thread. With that we can understand better your PC’s setup.

Also provide the output of:


rpm -qa '*alsa*'
rpm -qa '*pulse*'
rpm -q libasound2
uname -a

Note also with openSUSE-11.4 there is a superb app you can install (if not already installed) called pulse audio volume control (pavucontrol) and the provides superb top level control over interfacing one’s audio hardware and multimedia applications.

Yes, I saw it before, but it says it is for the kfce desktop so I was afraid to try it. I see there is mic boost and a master control which I believe only controls the output of the system. With the original onboard driver alsamixer had a mic level, and next to it, a boost control which was quite sensitive. This separete boost control is now gone.

I will compy with oldcpu’s requests after I get done with my SQL lessons, in a couple of hours.

I have pavucontrol installed and I can watch it set the sliders in alsamixer if they are both started.

http://www.alsa-project.org/db/?f=c29ce3b248fd4188f02122ad4ee6c3af80b41801

rpm -qa ‘alsa

alsa-plugins-32bit-1.0.24-6.1.x86_64
alsa-1.0.24.1-4.9.1.x86_64
alsa-utils-1.0.24.2-3.1.x86_64
alsamixergui-0.9.0rc1-749.1.x86_64
alsa-oss-1.0.17-32.1.x86_64
alsa-plugins-pulse-1.0.24-6.1.x86_64
alsa-plugins-1.0.24-6.1.x86_64
alsa-plugins-pulse-32bit-1.0.24-6.1.x86_64
alsa-oss-32bit-1.0.17-32.1.x86_64

rpm -qa ‘pulse

pulseaudio-0.9.22-6.11.1.x86_64
libpulse0-0.9.22-6.11.1.x86_64
libpulse-mainloop-glib0-0.9.22-6.11.1.x86_64
pulseaudio-utils-0.9.22-6.11.1.x86_64
libxine1-pulse-1.1.19-4.4.x86_64
libpulse-browse0-0.9.22-6.11.1.x86_64
libpulse0-32bit-0.9.22-6.11.1.x86_64
alsa-plugins-pulse-1.0.24-6.1.x86_64
alsa-plugins-pulse-32bit-1.0.24-6.1.x86_64
libpulse-mainloop-glib0-32bit-0.9.22-6.11.1.x86_64

rpm -q libasound2

libasound2-1.0.24.1-4.9.1.x86_64

uname -a

Linux linux-iwre 2.6.37.6-0.5-desktop #1 SMP PREEMPT 2011-04-25 21:48:33 +0200 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

Ok thanks for that output.

It confirms openSUSE-11.4 with the 2.6.37.6-0.5-desktop on a HP xw9400 workstation with a Creative X-Fi 20K2 SB0880 and a HDA NVIDIA MCP HD Controller (ALC262). The alsa version 1.0.24.27.g22657.833.g351c8 is not consistent with the alsa rpms that you noted you have installed, and that tells me you performed a custom compilation. (note the next kernel update will likely break this).

For recording I note this from the script:


ARECORD

**** List of CAPTURE Hardware Devices ****
card 0: XFi [Creative X-Fi], device 0: ctxfi [Front/WaveIn]
  Subdevices: 1/1
  Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
card 1: NVidia [HDA NVidia], device 0: ALC262 Analog [ALC262 Analog]
  Subdevices: 1/1
  Subdevice #0: subdevice #0

which tells me you have two record devices. One associated with the X-Fi (hw:0 or hw:0,0) and one associated with the nVidia ALC262 (hw:1 or hw:1,0).

Knowing the Creative X-Fi is hw:0 might be useful to you in tuning pulse audio.

When I look at the Mic mixer controls from amixer (from the script) I note this:


!!Amixer output
!!-------------

!!-------Mixer controls for card 0 [XFi]

Card hw:0 'XFi'/'Creative X-Fi 20K2 SB0880'
**Simple mixer control 'Master',0**
  Front Left: Playback 227 [89%] -7.25dB] Capture 250 [98%] -1.50dB]
  Front Right: Playback 227 [89%] -7.25dB] Capture 250 [98%] -1.50dB]
**Simple mixer control 'PCM',0**
  Front Left: Playback 256 [100%] [0.00dB] Capture 242 [95%] -3.50dB] **[off]**
  Front Right: Playback 256 [100%] [0.00dB] Capture 242 [95%] -3.50dB] **[off]**
**Simple mixer control 'Line-in',0**
  Front Left: Playback 256 [100%] [0.00dB] [on] Capture 0 [0%] -99999.99dB] [off]
  Front Right: Playback 256 [100%] [0.00dB] [on] Capture 0 [0%] -99999.99dB] [off]
**Simple mixer control 'Mic',0**
  Front Left: Playback 230 [90%] -6.50dB] Capture 234 [91%] -5.50dB] [on]
  Front Right: Playback 230 [90%] -6.50dB] Capture 234 [91%] -5.50dB] [on]
**Simple mixer control 'S/PDIF-in',0**
  Front Left: Playback 256 [100%] [0.00dB] [on] Capture 0 [0%] -99999.99dB] [on]
  Front Right: Playback 256 [100%] [0.00dB] [on] Capture 0 **[0%]** -99999.99dB] [on]

… which tells me there is a Master and a PCM capture (which I have never seen before so I don’t know what they do - most other cards do not have a capture associated with them). The PCM capture is muted. There is Line-In capture which is muted. And there is a Mic capture. There is also a digital capture (S/PDIF-in) which is muted.

I note there is no longer a mic boost. That appears to be a characteristic of either the new alsa driver you installed, or it is because the alsa-utils with 11.4 is for the older version of alsa, and you have not upated alsa-utils which contains alsamixer and amixer. ie your update may have caused this problem of no boost. Note I say “may” have caused. It “may” not. Mayber there is no more a ‘boost’ in the latest alsa. I don’t know.

IMHO the digital capture may be important, and you may wish to unmute that. If the umute controls can not be found in your mixer and if they can not be found in pulse audio volume control (assuming you have the correct selection made in the configure TAB and in the Input Devices Tab (with SHOW all input devices selected) and in the Recording Tab (with SHOW all streams seelcted)) then you can unmute with amixer.

You can see the amixer controls for hw:0 (your X-Fi) by typing:


amixer -D hw:0 scontrols

On my simple PC, when I type that to learn the controls for the USB mic (which is hw:1 on my PC), that command gives me:


Simple mixer control 'Mic',0

Now since my USB mic is hw:1 and the USB mic is called ‘Mic’, then to unmute my USB Mic I use something like:


amixer -D hw:1  set 'Mic' 95% unmute

Or I could have tried:


amixer -c 1 set 'Mic' 95% unmute cap

where the ‘1’ is the card #. In your case ‘0’ is the X-Fi card number and for your digital mic, the command may be something like:


amixer -D hw:0 set 'S/PDIF-in' 95% unmute

or maybe


amixer -c 0 set 'S/PDIF-in' 95% unmute cap

or something like that.

pavucontrol should allow you to do this without those alsa amixer commands (IF we assume your alsa-utils is not broken). Note in pavucontrol Configuration TAB you MUST select the correct device. Note in pavucontrol Input Devices Tab (with SHOW selected to show ‘all input devices’ ) you MUST select the correct device. Note in pavucontrol recording Tab (with SHOW selected to show ‘all input streams’) you MUST select the correct device under the running application.

For testing the capability to record, I like using a simply application such as arecord.

For your X-fi it could be something like:


arecord -D hw:0 -vv -f cd mymicrecording.wav

and use < ctrl > < c > to stop the capture and then play back mymicrecording.wav with a media player. A simple:


aplay mymicrecording.wav

may play it back.

Thank you for that oldcpu.

The machine was put to sleep and upon wake up alsamixer is not available from bash terminal and Pulse Audio Volume Control (pavucontrol) is missing the Creative card on the Configuration tab. All that is there is Internal Audio (set to off) and HD Audio also set to off. I had turned these off since I am no longer using the on board ALC262 which is junk.

Editing Card 0, resetting all values, Yes I am sure, Next, to apply changes restart Yes, OK, executes and closes the window.

A trip over to YaST Sound indicates Card 0 (the Creative) is there at the top. The two other entries are related to the onboard sound aand are not configured as I had left them.

Opening pavucontrol now indicates only the X-Fi card 0 in Config and Input Devices as it should. Internal and HD audio are gone as they should be. And the alsamixer GUI is now available at the prompt as usual. Checking what it is indicating with F6 indicates card 0 as the only choice other than default as it should since all onboard devices are not configured. Selecting default is the same as selecting 0, as it should.

Wake ups after S2R (sleep) have been a problem with 11.4 on occasion. But getting back to the original discussion, in desperation when resetting the card as described above would not get my sound back (both record and playback), not knowing how to reinstall the 11.4 driver, I resorted to:

Driver Compilation - AlsaProject

Which apparently works. My mic input is weak unless I am right on top of it, according to the level indicator in pavucontrol, which is confirmed in my app as well. So that works. This is what alsamixer F4 Capture looks like:…well I am not allowed to upload images for some reason… So I have 4 veritcal level indicators: Master, PCM, Line-in, Mic, S/PDIF-in. Changing the level in pavucontrol changes the Mic level in alsamixer as always, But not the other way around. Only the Master in alsamixer affects the recording level. Apparently, pavucontrol has precedence over the Mic level but alsa has control over the Master input level. To answer my own question, it appears the Master level is the main input level and Mic level is the gain. Setting the Master to max in alsamixer and the mic slider to max in pavucontrol gives a decent mic input level.

To reiterate, my reason for installing the Titanium card was for better recording quality. The onboard card produced such distorted data my app could not even use it. Checking recording waveforms with Wavesurfer verified this as well.

I vaguely recall the Mic boost not being there after installing the X-Fi. This is not surprising since the only driver available from Creative for Linux is a basic driver. The other features available with the Windows driver have not been developed. This sad fact is plainly stated on the Creative site. However, the card works, recording quality is excellent with no background hiss, I am not big on playback but I would imagine playing a music CD in the CD drive through a decent amp in a receiver or otherwise, would have similar results. I know Skype would work if Duplex is selected in pavucontrol under the Config tab since I can hear my voice through the speakers if this is set.

The alsa version 1.0.24.27.g22657.833.g351c8 is not consistent with the alsa rpms that you noted you have installed, and that tells me you performed a custom compilation. (note the next kernel update will likely break this).

So the ALSA driver also changed the ALSA version itself in my system. Is there any way to reverse this? Either way, audio is not stable in openSUSE. I had trouble with the SUSE driver and still have trouble with the driver from the ALSA site as stated above with S2R. Installing mixers and recording apps like Audacity reek havoc on the system and may shut audio down altogether. Also, I uninstalled kmix which appeared to be troublesome along with Audacity; I have krecord which I need to set specific audio settings for recording. My conclusion is that audio has been enabled as a “necessary evil” originally with the Linux kernel, then problems are compounded by the various distros, desktops, and other software.

For a dedicated application, say interactive voice recognition (IVR), perhaps a custom kernel from scratch would need to be developed for the particular hardware platform and any other sound software necessary. But the SUSE/KDE combo is good as it is distributed and it would be found that most of what comes with SUSE/KDE would be sorely missed and have to be integrated anyway.

What should I do?

Thank you for your help and interest.

1st - when testing this do NOT suspend your PC. You are introducing too many variables making it impossible to solve. So do not do that. Keep it Simple.

2nd - I can not see where you followed all my advice. I gave a number of commands to try. I spent a LOT of time researching and then typing it. Sorry, but there is no point my typing more unless I can see the advice was followed. I truely believe what I gave you previous in my above post is enough for you to get this working. (assuming alsa-utils is not broken by your custom alsa update).

3rd - I do not know if YaST > Hardware > Sound supports the X-Fi. I know in the past it did NOT support the X-Fi. In the past, for some users, trying YaST > Hardware > Sound would definitely mess up their X-Fi … ie YasT used to make it worse for the X-Fi. I definitely did not suggest trying that. …

… and my not suggesting YaST but seeing it attempted, suggests to me this: Maybe we have too many cooks here, and we are spoiling the broth ?

I was late coming in to the thread. So it should be me to back out of this thread, let others try to sort this with their different approach. And when they have exhausted their methods, I’ll come back in and repeat what I posted above in my previous post.

Good luck and best wishes in this.

Sorry about that, I got lost. You are not too late coming in since jdmcdaniel3 merely suggested using XFCE-mixer, which I have held off on so far.

amixer -D hw:0 scontrols
Simple mixer control 'Master',0
Simple mixer control 'PCM',0
Simple mixer control 'Front',0
Simple mixer control 'Surround',0
Simple mixer control 'Center/LFE',0
Simple mixer control 'Side',0
Simple mixer control 'Line-in',0
Simple mixer control 'Mic',0
Simple mixer control 'S/PDIF-in',0
Simple mixer control 'S/PDIF-out',0

and,

# amixer -D hw:0 set 'S/PDIF-in' 95% unmute
Simple mixer control 'S/PDIF-in',0
  Capabilities: pvolume cvolume pswitch pswitch-joined cswitch cswitch-joined penum
  Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
  Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right
  Limits: Playback 0 - 256 Capture 0 - 256
  Front Left: Playback 244 [95%] -3.00dB] [on] Capture 244 [95%] -3.00dB] [on]
  Front Right: Playback 244 [95%] -3.00dB] [on] Capture 244 [95%] -3.00dB] [on]

Testing the S/PDIF level has no effect on the mic input whether muted or not.

How about reinstalling alsa and alsa-utils? This is what is installed:
alsa
alsa-OSS
alsa-OSS-32bit
alsa-plugins
alsa-plugins-pulse-as-plugins-pulse-32bit
alsa-utils
alsamixergui

I am using an analog mic, a cheap desktop with a battery and boost switch. Without boost on the mic is useless, even with onboard sound. Perhaps a better mic or digital mic is the way to go.

When trying:


arecord -D hw:0 -vv -f cd mymicrecording.wav

ensure you check pavucontrol while arecord is playing, and check the settings for the Recording Tab (ensure SHOW all streams selected) and the Input Tab (ensure SHOW all input devices selected), and the Configuration Tab (ensure you have selected a configuration appropriate to your X-Fi for your Mic).

Also, with the arecord command, you should see an ascii volume level change with the volume levels.

I note the PCM capture was muted. Does unmuting it have any effect ?

The place I go to get the latest cutting edge version of those apps is the SuSE-GmbH packager’s repository for multimedia, and there is guidance here for how to update from that repository: SDB:Alsa-update - openSUSE Note one needs check the rpm versions AFTER one ‘thinks’ they have updated alsa, and if the version # did not change, then one has failed to update. I’ve lost count of the number users who FLATLY told me they had updated alsa (or that they had the ‘latest version’) when they did not. There is a lot of misunderstanding here.

The test worked. pavucontrol when it is open has exclusive access to the sound device. This holds true with my app as well. Pavucontrol had to be closed for arecord to run.

I did notice the recording level was under 5%. The playback quality was perfect but turning up the volume had little effect as would be expected.

Thank you for the tip on updating. I guess very few check the version after an apparently “successful” (i.e., no errors or freezes) update.

And few of us take notes. I just got into the habit of leaving a blank txt doc open while I fiddle and record everything I do. This should be expanded to recording any other related observations.

At any rate, I believe the X-Fi Titanium no-frills driver from Creative and ALSA are identical. What SUSE does with it I have no idea.

But are you suggesting to try cutting edge on an already unstable system? Well, I could try both, or anything for that matter since I have a full system image on hand.

With all the views on this thread perhaps I should condense a summary to help those considering adding the X-Fi Titanium to a 11.4 install. I will wait for you final comments…

Thank you very much for your input.

Only if you are missing essential functionality would I recommend installing the SuSE-GmbH sound packager’s ‘cutting edge’ alsa versions. Some of the updates there have not even made it upstream to alsa, … for the SuSE-GmbH packager for sound is also an alsa developer. However sometimes he will package functionality that is otherwise missing.

In truth your best bet here is to get the SuSE-GmbH packager’s (who is also an alsa developer’s) attention by writing a bug report on this. Guidance is here: openSUSE:Submitting bug reports - openSUSE and use your openSUSE forum username and password when logging on to bugzilla. Attach to the bug report the /tmp/alsa-info.txt file (ie attach the FILE , not the contents) by running:


/usr/sbin/alsa-info.sh --no-upload

also, the bug report must be complete in describing the problem. The SuSE-GmbH packager will NOT read a forum thread (so no point in referencing the thread).

Check on the bug report every few days. Watch for the ‘NEED INFO’ flag and after you answer any ‘NEED INFO’ request of the SuSE-GmbH sound packager, be certain to clear the flag.

The bug has been reported. In the meantime, the people over at CMUSphinx have nothing good to say about pulseaudio. How about reverting to esound by uninstalling pulseaudio and installing esound? The actions should be reversible if the bug guys come up with an answer.

I will wait to do the GmbH repository experiment until I hear from bugzilla.

This issue has been resolved to a large extent. I never heard from Bugzilla. I installed the cutting edge driver according to SDB:Audio troubleshooting - openSUSE That did nothing so I reverted back to the standard driver. During the search for a remedy I too frequently encountered complaints about Pulse Audio. On that site, it was stated to the effect, “If you are having problems with a Creative card, that is your fault for obtaining it for Linux.” I also found out the only reason ALSA has even the basic driver is that Creative begrudgingly supplied the necessary data.

So I proceeded to disable Pulse Audio according to SDB:Pulseaudio - openSUSE I had difficulty unchecking the packages in Software Management due to the dependencies, but after moving up and down the list, and reatempting the unchecking, they all finally cleared and uninstalled successfuly. Pavucontrol was dumped as well.

Disabling Pulse broke my sound until I downloaded, installed and selected Xine as the backend in Phonon. So the sound is excellent as before, and the mic input level is noticeably improved. To summarize:

Creative Titanium X-Fi works very well out of the box with 11.4
Mic input level too low may be remedied by disabling Pulse Audio
Disabling Pulse disabled audio playback but adding Xine backend enabled it
Mixer is ALSA mixer at the terminal or with the AlsaMixerGUI
Krecord works
Audacity may now be installed since it is incompatible with Pulse

I still need to increase the mic input level further. I suppose an inquiry at ALSA is worth a try, since they made the driver. Hopefully, a simple adjustment in one of the config files would to the trick.

My opinion is I do not think this is a bug. It has to do with economics. Neither Creative nor ALSA is willing to invest development into this driver, and at least SUSE is unwilling to remedy the problem. I am not going to start trying other distros in hope to find a remedy.

If anyone has any suggestions, they would be appreciated.

And thanks to oldcpu for the sensible procedure for tracing audio problems.

I found something on mic input.

ALSA: use external preamp for microphone There are many, many issues related to mismatches in impedance and other electrical characteristics between microphones and cards. Sometimes recording is better if one uses the Mic Boost control for the microphone channel, but usually quality will not be optimal. If quality is desired, an external microphone amplifier is probably# a lot better.

at here: Linux ALSA sound notes

I also found the “micboost” controls the card’s internal amplifier and is analogous to “gain” on an audio or musical instrument amplifier. The mic volume is like the master volume except it controls mic input.