I am not trying to bring up anything like flames or anything but, I am just wondering if this dependency hell thing have been solved or not. I’ve looked at this distro comparison site and it said that YaST does get the dependencies of the supported softwares but, it does not get the dependencies from the unsupported softwares. Is this true?
Not sure if this is relevant but, when I try to install stuff in Opensuse like playonlinux or Eclipse for php, nothing happens when I tried to run the software. Is this what they call dependency hell or something?
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‘dependency hell’ is when you want to install programme A and you get a error message to say that programme A needs a programme B to be installed first. So you try to install programme B and get an error message to say that Programme B needs a programme C to be installed first etc
So now what I don’t get is, how come programs don’t run at all when you try to run them when you install it. For some reason, it just doesn’t respond at all or nothing happens.
Programs like playonlinux and Eclipse seemed to not even run at all when I tried to execute them.
gtx75 wrote:
> I am not trying to bring up anything like flames or anything but, I am
> just wondering if this dependency hell thing have been solved or not.
> I’ve looked at this distro comparison site and it said that YaST does
> get the dependencies of the supported softwares but, it does not get the
> dependencies from the unsupported softwares. Is this true?
Depends. “Dependency Hell” hasn’t existed in the rpm sense of the
word for a VERY VERY VERY VERY long time in openSUSE … yes… even
in SUSE… yeah verily… even in SuSE.
>
> Not sure if this is relevant but, when I try to install stuff in
> Opensuse like playonlinux or Eclipse for php, nothing happens when I
> tried to run the software. Is this what they call dependency hell or
> something?
“Dependency Hell” ALWAYS has the potential to exist because the
variables are too many. In fact, Debian, which many CLAIM (falsely)
does not suffer from DH, really does when things happen that
the package creator never planned for (which is actually quite
easy).
With regards to your particular example… I do not know. I just
know that it is IMPOSSIBLE to prevent “dependency hell”… no
matter what some ideologues claim.
Although I’ve no idea what playonlinux is… Eclipse does work.
On 11.1 might run into the problem of it not running very well and crashing quite often / not being able to install plugins.
This is however solved for some by changing the java version from what’s installed to the sun 1.6 one.
Didn’t quite fix it for me, but with the 1.7 preview it does work fine (just when working in java I after like ~4 hours I sometimes run into some annoying null pointer error and I’ve to restart eclipse to fix it).
Don’t know which PHP plugin in you’re using, but the Studio Aptana one works fine for me.
Try starting eclipse and playonlinux via the console and they might provide you with some more info on what’s going on while they’re trying to start.
Yea, thanks guys. The Eclipse did work after changing to a different Java but, playonlinux still wouldn’t run for some reason, anyone know why?
playonlinux a program that helps you install windows games on linux and it works with wine to make it work. its really useful but, maybe a few more contributors for it would be nice.
Associating wine with .exe’s files isn’t easy enough?
Right-click, open with, type in wine, mark ‘Remember my choice’ and done.
You could try typing in ‘playonlinux’ in a console with any parameters it might require. Should provide you with some valuable error messages if it doesn’t start properly.
I won’t be able to describe playonlinux to you that well because it might give you the wrong idea so the only thing I can ask you to do there is google it. playonlinux has a special role in making games work and managing them.
The odd thing is, I did try to run it in console but bizarrely. nothing happened.
What about those plugins listed just below the Dl’ds?
You’ll need to install them yourself, Yast will not do those for you. In such a case use a separate thread on how to install from tarballs.
Best idea when you have problems running some packages is to run them from terminal and look for problems. If there are any it will show up in the console.
The best (worst) way to get dependency hell is to add too many repositories. Eventually one will find the right combination of conflicting repositories to create a situation of dependency hell.
Thats one of the reasons why I typically recommend users stick with only 4 repos (OSS, Non-OSS, Update and Packman). Others can be added (and then immediately removed) on an as required basis.
I must add (correct me if i’m wrong) that you won’t get into dependency hell with many repositories as long as they are built against the same set of packages. So let’s say openSUSE has a set of standard packages and if applications are always built against the same set then it’s ok and additionally the dependencies of packages must be correctly set. oldcpu correct me if i’m wrong here?
P.S. openSUSE has a great tool called 1-click install but it can create chaos if you abuse it For example installing Banshee using 1-click install from their website adds a repo which has a non-standard set of packages so this can create some hell for other packages which depend on older version etc.
The problem is the more repositories that are added, the less and less likely that applications are built against the same set.
And even if one does not have dependency hell, there can be problems where applications cease function when another is installed, even though there were no dependency warnings.
A classic case here, which nails many newbies, is selecting both videolan and packman repositories, and then discovering various packman multimedia apps don’t function for most codecs. Its best for new and average users NOT to add both those repos (unless they really understand what they are doing and how the videlan/packman packages were packaged, where they both keep their codecs … etc … ) .
I agree re: 1-click. IMHO its best not to keep any repos that were added as a result of 1-click.
you right it will make lots of trouble, which nails many newbies, is selecting both videolan and packman repositories.
If is both videolan and packman repositories enable but if is one enable and other one is disable that will work is it?
On Sun, 2009-01-25 at 19:26 +0000, gtx75 wrote:
> I am not trying to bring up anything like flames or anything but, I am
> just wondering if this dependency hell thing have been solved or not.
> I’ve looked at this distro comparison site and it said that YaST does
> get the dependencies of the supported softwares but, it does not get the
> dependencies from the unsupported softwares. Is this true?
>
> Not sure if this is relevant but, when I try to install stuff in
> Opensuse like playonlinux or Eclipse for php, nothing happens when I
> tried to run the software. Is this what they call dependency hell or
> something?
Dependency hell ALWAYS exists. ALWAYS (Yes, Debian users, I’m talking
to YOU). The question is whether or not if somebody tries to NOT
go to dependency hell, is the system going to take them there anyway.
openSUSE shouldn’t try to take you to hell… however it does have
the options (ability to add repositories) that can very well take
you there.
In general, the people in dependency hell sort of helped themselves
to get there. I always find it interesting when they complain about
it. I mean, it’s called “dependency hell” for a reason… most should
understand that when you go outside of the “box”, the risk goes up.
Again, you CAN force yourself to “dep. hell”… and it’s not that hard
to do. But for the most part… for the average user, no, shouldn’t
get there easily.
IMHO its best to simply go with either Packman or Videlan, but not both. And once you go with one, do NOT switch back to the other … for if you do switch, one often has to do a large amount of application replacement (ie change applications to match the current active repos, … and such changes are fraught with potential functionality risks ) … and to me that sort of suggests there is no point in keeping videolan in one’s repos list (even if disabled) as there is no intention to ever enable it again.
And if one did want to enable it again in the future, its very easy to add and then enable, so there is no need to leave it in an active repos list.
I wonder whether dependency hell will haunt us forever. There are attempts to make package managers that will allow you to run different versions of libraries etc concurrently. Obviously still under development, but worth keeping an eye on…
For example installing Banshee using 1-click install from their website adds a repo which has a non-standard set of packages so this can create some hell for other packages which depend on older version etc.