Please could someone tell me if Apper works properly for them?
I am finding that sometimes it updates & sometimes it doesn’t, even after seemingly going through the download of updates process,
Also, perhaps more importantly, does Apper also ‘clean up’ cached packages after an update like YaST/Zypper does??, I ask because after an update just performed by Apper, I have 100mb less hd space?
Any replies greatly appreciated, thank you.
Almost nobody here uses Apper. Reason: it borked things.
The general advice here is: deinstall Apper (I even let it not install on system installation).
Use YaST > Software > Online update (or zypper patch) for the security updates frpm the Update repo.
Ah, people spreading FUD about apper again instead of explaining and showing where to find the information needed to analyse the issue. 
Apper does what it is told. Actually using it is a lot less dangerous than using zypper because e.g. it cannot change vendors while zypper offers that possibility to the user.
Information missing from the original reporter is (at least): oS version, KDE version, apper version, what kind of updates, i.e. only patches from the official update repo or any buildservice repos involved etc.
Apper does not do anything but forward commands and show lists it gets from the zypper backend. zypp backend selects, installs, updates etc. according to the zypp configs, e.g. by default: do not show any updates that require vendor change.
If you install updates new packages might be installed as well if dependencies changed. Hence updating can lead to less space on the disk. zypper shows this in an extra section, apper does as well, i.e. before it installs, it shows a list of packages to be updated and packages to be installed. So you can check before starting the update what’s going to happen.
Anyway, you can find the zypp backend’s logs at /var/log/pk_backend-zypp and check what it did, e.g. if new packages were installed to meet dependencies and not just old packages updated etc. If it did something wrong, report it to bugzilla.novell.com and use libzypp/zypp as component.
Apper bugs are only things like buttons not working, apper crashing etc., i.e. front-end bugs. If it shows the wrong packages in its list etc. that’s backend stuff, i.e. either PackageKit or more likely zypp-backend.
Ah, what might also be helpful is:
By default apper gets lists of what zypper lu would show or zypper up would do. So you can run zypper lu and apper should show the same. If not -> backend bug. If it shows the same it’s either a feature or a genuine zypper bug.
If you want to check whether there is a bug in what apper shows (and apper is only the KDE app unlike some people assuming that every desktop update module is called apper) you can open a konsole and use “pkcon get-updates” or “pkcon update”. If that shows the same error, it’s not apper at fault since it just shows what got forwarded.
The zypp backend is set by default to show all updates that do not need a vendor change, i.e. zypper up equivalent. You can set it to only show patches, i.e. zypper patch equivalent. The default was chosen by the openSUSE devs (not apper devs) because a lot of people complained that the updater would not show updates from the repos they added. You can however change the zypp backend’s behaviour to only forward a list of patches to apper.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=637764#c18
“Now you can disable packages as well, just create /etc/PackageKit/ZYpp.conf and
set:[Updates]HidePackages=true”(I hope they did not correct the ZYpp to zypp yet. 
That may all be nice and neat, but the basic problem with Apper is that those who used openSUSE for years, did not ask for it, think they do not need it, thus do not use it and consequently do not have experience with it and can not tell realy what is wrong with it or what is good with it and can not tell what obvious or hidden configuration possibilities it has.
IMHO YaST is one of the main things that makes openSUSE what it is. The software management part of it being an important element of YaST. For those preferring tthe CLI zypper works fine. In such a situation you must come with a lot of big advantages when you want to introduce a new product. It is still not clear to me, and I guess to many of the users here, why Apper was introduced (or even more or less forced) to us.
Most here do see no need for it, ignore it and will tell others to do likewise if they want to get help with (de)installation problems. Apper people should have made better propaganda to make people wanting to use it eagerly…
How do you know who asked for it? What does having experience with apper have to do with the general approach to analysing issues, i.e. checking logs etc. – especially if herlpers claim to be experienced openSUSE users?
IMHO YaST is one of the main things that makes openSUSE what it is. The software management part of it being an important element of YaST. For those preferring tthe CLI zypper works fine. In such a situation you must come with a lot of big advantages when you want to introduce a new product. It is still not clear to me, and I guess to many of the users here, why Apper was introduced (or even more or less forced) to us.
How long have you been using openSUSE? For the last years, i.e. long, long before apper even existed, openSUSE has had an update applet which worked more or less well. So stating that an update applet was introduced when apper was introduced would be plain wrong. Hence now the question, why was the old updater applet replaced by apper? Because nobody at openSUSE cared to maintain it and because leaving users without a notification about updates is irresponsible. Hence, be thankful for others taking over that job and providing a notification and update applet instead of decrediting their work and even making and spreading wrong assumptions about what part of the stack is at fault when things go wrong. And I have seen a lot of people messing-up their system with zypper and YaST, yet do I spread that those tools are borked?
Most here do see no need for it, ignore it and will tell others to do likewise if they want to get help with (de)installation problems. Apper people should have made better propaganda to make people wanting to use it eagerly…
You did not answer the original poster’s question. Neither did you show him the general way to analysing issues with Linux. You spread FUD, that’s all. You have no clue about apper and its stack – as you stated. You do not help to analyse and fix problems. You do not ask whether people use buildservice repos but suggest to remove apper and replace it with zypper patch or YOU, neither of those reporting any updates for buildservice repos and hence the user stuck with old and potentially dangerous packages. In fact, neither of those reporting patches either unless the user actively checks. Bravo!
So here is my suggestion: help users to analyse problems and report them with the info needed to fix them if you are interested in improving openSUSE.
Personally, I have disabled apper from automatically starting in KDE. But I do manually run it (vi the applications menu) from time to time. I have not had a problem.
The reason I disable the automatic start, is that it can annoyingly interfere with Yast software management. So I prefer to run it on my term.
I typically use Yast online update for keeping the system up to date. After running that, I start apper which sometimes finds updates at the packman repos. I think “zypper up” would also find those, but I find apper reasonably congenial for the purpose.
@rabauke:
Do not expect people who do not want to use a certain piece of software to help improve it. That may be a policy in a corporate environment where you can force your employees to use something they do not want, that is not the model of free software where the end user chooses what s/he wants WITHOUT having to justify why they do not want something and prefer something else (in my case “zypper up” which just does the job I want it to do).
@icekool:
About your original question “Does apper work properly?”, the answer is IMHO “no” (bugzilla.novell.com):
728349 Maj P1 Other kde-maintainers NEW apper does not restart after package manager update
725570 Nor P2 Other kde-maintainers NEW apper waking up packagekit way too often
779285 Cri P2 openSUSE 12.2 kde-maintainers NEW apper installs software without root-password
503071 Maj P4 Other kde-maintainers NEW [apper] Critical updates hidden behind update stack updates
756638 Nor P5 openSUSE 12.1 bnc-team-gnome NEW Apper reports update of an package over and over again
731301 Maj P5 Other kde-maintainers NEW Apper update unusable.
736816 Min P5 SUSE Other kde-maintainers NEW Apper authorization window does not get focus
739910 Min P5 SUSE Other kde-maintainers NEW Apper: Uses filenames found in "/etc/zypp/repos.d" to infer repository name in update dialogue
746771 Nor P5 openSUSE 12.1 kde-maintainers NEW Apper only shows description the first time.
751651 Maj P5 openSUSE 12.1 kde-maintainers NEW apper freezes KDE workspace frequently
751669 Nor P5 openSUSE 12.1 kde-maintainers NEW Apper suggests update allthough a more recent version of the affected program is installed
772531 Nor P5 openSUSE 12.2 kde-maintainers NEW Apper thinks it still have pending changes even after it actually applied them.
772536 Maj P5 openSUSE 12.2 kde-maintainers NEW Update via Apper failed.
774805 Maj P5 Other kde-maintainers NEW Apper: can't enable/disable repositories
777938 Nor P5 openSUSE 12.2 kde-maintainers NEW apper: no updates and error ""This configuration section is already opened in KDE control module"
779650 Nor P5 Other kde-maintainers NEW apper: after pressing 'Apply' it goes through some motions and returns to the same screen. No errors, no dialogs, no change.
735326 Nor P5 All os.gnome.maintainers NEW Apper: "couldn't find package" after installing updates
731448 Nor P5 Other wstephenson NEW apper: failure to acquire a single package causes entire transaction to fail
764337 Maj P5 Other zypp-maintainers NEW apper offers programs for update that are marked as "keep" in yast2
732311 Maj P5 SUSE Other kde-maintainers REOP Apper finds Updates for packages which are not installed
It may improve in the future, but the question as I understood it was about the current state.
Absolutely. Nobody is forced to use, improve or help. But doing the opposite, i.e. spreading FUD is useless and not helpful.
@icekool:
About your original question “Does apper work properly?”, the answer is IMHO “no” (bugzilla.novell.com):
728349 Maj P1 Other kde-maintainers NEW apper does not restart after package manager update 725570 Nor P2 Other kde-maintainers NEW apper waking up packagekit way too often 779285 Cri P2 openSUSE 12.2 kde-maintainers NEW apper installs software without root-password 503071 Maj P4 Other kde-maintainers NEW [apper] Critical updates hidden behind update stack updates 756638 Nor P5 openSUSE 12.1 bnc-team-gnome NEW Apper reports update of an package over and over again 731301 Maj P5 Other kde-maintainers NEW Apper update unusable. 736816 Min P5 SUSE Other kde-maintainers NEW Apper authorization window does not get focus 739910 Min P5 SUSE Other kde-maintainers NEW Apper: Uses filenames found in "/etc/zypp/repos.d" to infer repository name in update dialogue 746771 Nor P5 openSUSE 12.1 kde-maintainers NEW Apper only shows description the first time. 751651 Maj P5 openSUSE 12.1 kde-maintainers NEW apper freezes KDE workspace frequently 751669 Nor P5 openSUSE 12.1 kde-maintainers NEW Apper suggests update allthough a more recent version of the affected program is installed 772531 Nor P5 openSUSE 12.2 kde-maintainers NEW Apper thinks it still have pending changes even after it actually applied them. 772536 Maj P5 openSUSE 12.2 kde-maintainers NEW Update via Apper failed. 774805 Maj P5 Other kde-maintainers NEW Apper: can't enable/disable repositories 777938 Nor P5 openSUSE 12.2 kde-maintainers NEW apper: no updates and error ""This configuration section is already opened in KDE control module" 779650 Nor P5 Other kde-maintainers NEW apper: after pressing 'Apply' it goes through some motions and returns to the same screen. No errors, no dialogs, no change. 735326 Nor P5 All os.gnome.maintainers NEW Apper: "couldn't find package" after installing updates 731448 Nor P5 Other wstephenson NEW apper: failure to acquire a single package causes entire transaction to fail 764337 Maj P5 Other zypp-maintainers NEW apper offers programs for update that are marked as "keep" in yast2 732311 Maj P5 SUSE Other kde-maintainers REOP Apper finds Updates for packages which are not installed
It may improve in the future, but the question as I understood it was about the current state.
Forget about that list unless you checked the validity of those reports and whether apper is the actual culprit.
Should I post a list of KDE/Gnome/Kernel bugs to prove that they are buggy and should be uninstalled? I guess that shows how helpful such a list is to prove a point. In fact I could claim that part of that list is the result of people bashing apper making it the scapegoat for all sorts of things and the software stack. As I mentioned, some people even use apper for all sorts of update applet even though it only refers to the KDE one and only to the front-end of the stack.
On 2012-09-15 15:06, rabauke wrote:
> You spread FUD, that’s all. You have no clue about apper and its stack
> – as you stated. You do not help to analyse and fix problems. You do
IMHO, you do not do well coming to the forums and start by accusing a moderator of spreading
FUD. The common consensus here, over the years, is that apper and its friends are a piece of
rubish - more or less. Many people here think that way, so if you want to promote apper,
packagekit, pk-update, etc, you should do it differently, telling of its advantages and goals,
and offer help to those that have problems with it that we can not solve except by uninstalling it.
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 “Asparagus” at Telcontar)
@rabauke
I have waited some time with my answer because I knew others would comment and I was curious about those comments.
To make it short:
The OP here asked and I answered with what is my best answer,. Most people hee do not use it for several reasons and it is most likely they will tell you not to use it. Reason; people using it and coming here and removing it report back that their problems are gone. Search the forums for these threads and you will see that that is a fact. In all those cases you were apparently not available to help them in the way you seem to think that they should have been helped.We here are just openSUSE users… We help mostly out of our own experience. And we read the threads here (I read may be more then the avarage member) and have come to the conclusion that removing/not using Apper is a practical solution for many. Thus I told the OP that it very likely could help him. My conclusion: in this thread I did the helping. You did nothing to help the OP.
Funny to hear that from somebody who did not even get the difference between apper and other updaters although being told so more than once by others than me.
And please do not confuse calls to not spread FUD, calls to help the user by pointing him to logs etc. and calls to tell the user that he will not get any update notifications when suggesting to remove apper with promoting.
Fact is, nobody pointed him to anything that would help him find out what is going on. No matter whether it’s a moderator or somebody’s first post. FUD stays FUD.
Indeed, pointing out the location of the logs and all that was nothing… Don’t try too hard to blame others!
Am 15.09.2012 17:16, schrieb rabauke:
> Fact is, nobody pointed him to anything that would help him find out
> what is going on.
That includes you, who should have a deeper understanding about it.
So please start to explain the OP how to diagnose and solve the problem.
–
PC: oS 12.2 x86_64 | i7-2600@3.40GHz | 16GB | KDE 4.8.4 | GeForce GT 420
ThinkPad E320: oS 12.2 x86_64 | i3@2.30GHz | 8GB | KDE 4.8.4 | HD 3000
eCAFE 800: oS 12.1 i586 | AMD Geode LX 800@500MHz | 512MB | KDE 3.5.10
On 2012-09-15 17:16, rabauke wrote:
> Funny to hear that from somebody who did not even get the difference
> between apper and other updaters although being told so more than once
> by others than me.
I have my reasons; perhaps I do that on purpose.
> Fact is, nobody pointed him to anything that would help him find out
> what is going on.
You are free to do that yourself, I will not. You had years to help them.
I asked volunteers to help here, not to start accusations.
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 “Asparagus” at Telcontar)
Honestly?
Man, that’s funny. Presenting a list of bugs he did not check to prove his point and ignoring (on purpose?) my hints to logs etc. for the OP.
Am 15.09.2012 17:20, schrieb Martin Helm:
> Am 15.09.2012 17:16, schrieb rabauke:
>> Fact is, nobody pointed him to anything that would help him find out
>> what is going on.
> That includes you, who should have a deeper understanding about it.
> So please start to explain the OP how to diagnose and solve the problem.
>
Before this becomes more of a flame war, I want to elaborate on this:
You pointed to the backend log files (btw you had a typo i think the log
file is not “/var/log/pk_backend-zypp” but “/var/log/pk_backend_zypp”).
It would help if from all what is logged there one can extract for
example the exact commands which came from apper itself, I guess that is
somehow possible but I do not directly see how.
Does apper itself have a separate place where it does log a bit more
highlevel or does everything go into the /var/log/pk_backend_zypp?
How do we differentiate what comes from apper or is triggered by it and
what comes from packagekitd?
–
PC: oS 12.2 x86_64 | i7-2600@3.40GHz | 16GB | KDE 4.8.4 | GeForce GT 420
ThinkPad E320: oS 12.2 x86_64 | i3@2.30GHz | 8GB | KDE 4.8.4 | HD 3000
eCAFE 800: oS 12.1 i586 | AMD Geode LX 800@500MHz | 512MB | KDE 3.5.10
Hi
I raised a bug that’s being worked on, there was a duplicate for apper
that has been pointed to my one.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=780058
No good just adding I see the same type of comments, add info that may
not have been seen…
But for sure add yourself to the CC list, this will indicate it’s being
watched by more people…
–
Cheers Malcolm °¿° (Linux Counter #276890)
openSUSE 12.2 (x86_64) Kernel 3.4.6-2.10-desktop
up 4 days 19:50, 4 users, load average: 0.24, 0.23, 0.27
CPU Intel i5 CPU M520@2.40GHz | Intel Arrandale GPU
So you are ignorant on purpose and ignore facts told you by people on the mailinglist, even openSUSE employees, because you have reasons for that. That does indeed fit your postings. It does not make sense to call every DE Gnome, but I guess you would have your reasons for that.
It just proves my point.
Am 15.09.2012 17:46, schrieb rabauke:
>>
>
> Honestly?
Yes
>
> Man, that’s funny. Presenting a list of bugs he did not check to prove
> his point and ignoring (on purpose?)
I checked them. Believe it or not I had a longer testing phase about the
usability of apper when I used 12.1-
> my hints to logs etc. for the OP.
See my other post which overlapped with yours now.
–
PC: oS 12.2 x86_64 | i7-2600@3.40GHz | 16GB | KDE 4.8.4 | GeForce GT 420
ThinkPad E320: oS 12.2 x86_64 | i3@2.30GHz | 8GB | KDE 4.8.4 | HD 3000
eCAFE 800: oS 12.1 i586 | AMD Geode LX 800@500MHz | 512MB | KDE 3.5.10
Hi All
It’s the weekend, go outside and find something to do that’s not
computer related
I’ve posted a bug number for the OP to follow, this thread has run it’s
course…
–
Cheers Malcolm °¿° (Linux Counter #276890)
openSUSE 12.2 (x86_64) Kernel 3.4.6-2.10-desktop
up 4 days 20:09, 4 users, load average: 0.25, 0.20, 0.22
CPU Intel i5 CPU M520@2.40GHz | Intel Arrandale GPU