Do you access the forum by NNTP or Web Browser?

dragonbite · April 13, 2010, 2:56pm

There has been a lot of talk about NNTP and browser access to the forums with the recent style changes. So I thought I would throw up an informal poll to get a feel for how what people prefer, or use most often.

Feel free to post why you like one over the other, or how you access it your preferred way such as what program.

I know this isn’t going to be scientific, or necessarily accurate.

Remember, this is informal and relaxed. I’m not asking which one is better, I’m just asking which one you use.

user · April 13, 2010, 3:40pm

i would guess the system administrator could tell you exactly how many
of each are posted hourly, daily, weekly, monthly, annually…

and, then what would be the value of that info?

malcolmlewis · April 13, 2010, 4:18pm

Hi
Primary is nntp, secondary is web With responsibilities here and on
the Novell forums along with Usenet and Mailing Lists a central client
that can work with all these different areas works for me.

–
Cheers Malcolm °¿° (Linux Counter #276890)
SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 11 (x86_64) Kernel 2.6.27.45-0.1-default
up 2 days 17:38, 2 users, load average: 1.12, 1.02, 0.73
GPU GeForce 8600 GTS Silent - CUDA Driver Version: 190.53

dragonbite · April 13, 2010, 4:43pm

Posting, doesn’t mean there aren’t people just reading the forums, or use Web interface to read it at work, but uses NNTP when at home to do their posting and interactivity.

Value? Just to satisfy my own curiosity, that’s all.

KohlInGA · April 13, 2010, 7:55pm

I echo malcolmlewis’ method. NNTP primary and browser access secondary.

dragonbite · April 13, 2010, 8:17pm

Actually, they could be more helpful in determining where (Europe, Asia, Africa, America, Australia, etc.) and what time of the day (locally) as well as how the posts are entered.

That would be a huge poll to cover all those possibilities!

dragonbite · April 14, 2010, 4:16pm

So far it’s 11 to 7 for Web browser users. Not bad, and not too different.

cjcox · April 14, 2010, 6:15pm

On Wed, 2010-04-14 at 14:26 +0000, dragonbite wrote:
> So far it’s 11 to 7 for Web browser users. Not bad, and not too
> different.

Well, obviously not great numbers… so it doesn’t tell you anything.

NNTP is 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times better than web.

Just saying…

(most web users don’t know what nntp is… )

rajko_m · April 16, 2010, 5:16am

cjcox wrote:

…
> NNTP is 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times better than web.
>
> Just saying…
>
> (most web users don’t know what nntp is… )

The learning is a problem.

With browser users have feeling that they know already all that is needed
and easily accept to learn web site (forum) commands, besides many have seen
some kind of forum, so not that much to learn.

–
Regards Rajko,

deano_ferrari · April 16, 2010, 6:07am

I must admit the web interface is the only method I have ever known. I started playing with Ret Hat, around 2000, and by 2003, I was a member of Linux Questions, Linux Forums, and Linux Format Forums. I never even saw NNTP mentioned before the two suse forums merged. I’m not even sure if any/all utilise NNTP. Anyway, I don’t plan to change now.

stakanov · April 16, 2010, 10:14am

**Well, I tried now NNTP for some days. My experience **is as follows, using Knodes in Opensuse 11.1 Kde3.5

a) a lot of functionalities that are “nice but not essential” are lost and to some extend that is not important. You can live without smilies, and so on. But the fact that text is not formated, no cursives, bold etc and no color differentiation CAN make the reading more difficult. And it is for me at least less comfortable to follow my threads (but this is maybe solvable through the use of filters.

b) Screen size: I am using a 12" notebook. NNTP with the Kontakt layout and Knodes integrated is simply a mess. Not because it is bad. But because it has been designed for bigger screens. Have a 17 or even a 15 inch nice. Less is a mess. And I have no other choice for now.

b) Rules, layout and learning curve: I found it confusing to some extend to find new messages. Although they are signed in bold (generally) sometimes they are not. They have a color code (yellow) that is not yet clear to me but I will read a howto, google it up blah blah blah…Will I? Or is this an opportunity cost a browser user is not willing to bear since he comes here with already a problem to be solved… BTW:

c) Opportunity cost and target: this brings me to an important, for me essential point. Developers use mailing lists and NNTP. Fine. This should be then a try to involve developers to come to the forum. Which is an opportunity cost for them, especially if you know a bit the opinion of developers about users…(that may be a personal prejudice) but…apparently users are a special kind of “sheep”. The “n00p” expression says it all about consideration for people who probably have done a difficult and noteworthy choice. Not to stay with Windows like more then 85 or 90 % of the worldwide PC users. So these “n00ps” should be taken and rewarded for what they (in all their technical incapacity) are: intelligent!
Their opportunity cost is already humongous, so imagine they are then meeting people calling them “the problem in front of the screen” or meeting them with irony. Now this IF they passed the “test” of motivation meeting the anonymous “great front page wall”. Probably then somebody can afterwards do a new entry in "why do users give up on Linux. Because often users will not give up only on openSUSE but will be backed off from opensource (at least IMO). The HTML layout should therefore be easy and accessible and attractive for the first time user in trouble (because in the majority of the cases he will be also first time user of Linux).

d) Technical barrier to NNTP / access: The fact of having to go through a process of setting up a NNTP account is to all extend an opportunity cost. I did not feel it much but I have seen already how it bothered me to learn about the interface, the setup was trivial (for me). So what if the user comes already with problems. To tell him: “Use NNTP to get a clearer view of the forum guy, it has been designed to be compliant”. Well, sorry, but this is near to Kafka. The forum must meet both needs, but, IMO, as explained above “must meet with excellence the first time user”.

stakanov · April 16, 2010, 10:29am

Oh, and how nice. I looked now at my previous post in NNTP. The formatting is TOTALLY screwed up and it seems as if a paranoid person would have posted a “screaming” post. Now this is easy to solve. You eliminated the edit function. So now you eliminate the format function in the html site.
Or you find the bug that makes me “psico in NNTP” lol!

user · April 16, 2010, 2:11pm

stakanov wrote:
> Or you find the bug that makes me “psico in NNTP” lol!

i was wondering why you shouted start to finish…

probably a setup problem in Knode that is easily fixed…
but, i’ve used it more than once or twice…and didn’t have that problem…

oldcpu · April 16, 2010, 2:28pm

I’m still trying to figure out how we can get a representative number of NNTP users voting, given that they may not see the poll, and that they can not vote in the poll via NNTP. Hence NNTP users who want to vote will be compelled to use a browswer to vote, and that may skewer the NNTP numbers.

dragonbite · April 16, 2010, 2:42pm

What programs can be used for NNTP?

With the web method, it’s pretty straight forward and easy. Just about every computer people use goes online and includes a browser.

And doesn’t work well on a 12" screen? Well that solves that since my home laptop is 12" and I can’t install anything on my work laptop.

So if you mark all of your subscribed threads read in one system, I assume it will show as being read in the other?

malcolmlewis · April 16, 2010, 3:20pm

Hi
I did a couple of HowTo’s;

knode - http://tinyurl.com/y6z9fvv
evolution - http://tinyurl.com/y2ctuhk

I use claws mail and it works fine on the netbook 10.1 you can
configure all the font sizes colors etc.

No it won’t show the web forum read and vice-versa

–
Cheers Malcolm °¿° (Linux Counter #276890)
SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 11 (x86_64) Kernel 2.6.27.45-0.1-default
up 1 day 0:54, 4 users, load average: 0.30, 0.30, 0.35
GPU GeForce 8600 GTS Silent - CUDA Driver Version: 195.36.15

stakanov · April 16, 2010, 5:51pm

Oldcpu, this is straightforward. You open 100 accounts and for every personality you vote: NNTP rotfl! Then you have a representative number (what is then representative? If you have already numbers that show the need to make this a NNTP forum with some html services, why not simply post them? So we solve the problem straight away). Or maybe it “cannot be what has not to be”?

From Lizards “For folks not that used to web interfaces, the openSUSE Forums team provides a secondary interface to our forums – NNTP. The intention of this post is to raise your attention on this possibility.”
Hum, I thought is was secondary. From the comments posted by you guys it seems more that it has become just the “primary” interface. Is it so?

Maybe it would be nice if someone would answer on the points I did rise about NNTP. I understand that it is a plus to have also NNTP. But you know what, if I have to use other program then knodes (at least it is integrated in Kontact) and I have the problem of not seeing well at all (it IS an issue on a 12 inch machine) then maybe there are easier way, i.e. change forum.

@DenverD
BTW. The “shout post” was not posted from NNTP, it was posted regularly with the browser from the forum, no Knodes setup issues, and therefore seems to be an NNTP bug (or an incompatibility with formatted html text).

user · April 16, 2010, 6:08pm

dragonbite wrote:
> And doesn’t work well on a 12" screen?

it works well in 3" screen if you use the correct client and set it up
right…

i’ve done a LOT of nntp on a 6" screen…

its nothing magic, it is just text…no html overhead to bloat up
transmission size…fast a lightening on an old dial up modem…

i’d think it a piece of cake on iPod (or Android act alike) sized screen…

user · April 16, 2010, 6:27pm

stakanov wrote:
> If you have already numbers that show the
> need to make this a NNTP forum with some html services

no one is trying to do that…

anyway, you are misinformed…it already IS an nntp forum AND and http
forum…all at the same time…

http and nntp are nothing more than two different protocols (ways) to
transmit data…and they can happily exist side by side and interact
with each other nearly seamlessly…

it is like a TV program can be sent/received as a terrestrial
broadcast (transmitted from an antenna through the air), or via cable
(transmitted via wires or fiber) or from a satellite (via extremely
high frequency)…

in a similar fashion the word of a forum post can be sent via http or
nntp…sure, the nntp side don’t get the blinkies and wigglies…but,
most of the folks using nntp are only interested in the words anyway…

see?

> why not simply post them? So we solve the problem straight away).

actually there is no problem to solve.

> From ‘Lizards’ (http://tinyurl.com/6yk9eq) - “For folks not that used to
> web interfaces, the openSUSE Forums team provides a secondary
> interface to our forums – NNTP. The intention of this post is to raise
> your attention on this possibility.”
> Hum, I thought is was secondary. From the comments posted by you guys
> it seems more that it has become just the “primary” interface. Is it so?

no it is not so…no one is trying to make nntp primary, it is not and
and will not be…that point was decided a year and a half before your
first post here and hasn’t been changed or studied to see if it should
be changed…

> Maybe it would be nice if someone would answer on the points I did rise
> about NNTP. I understand that it is a plus to have also NNTP. But you
> know what, if I have to use other program then knodes (at least it is
> integrated in Kontact) and I have the problem of not seeing well at all
> (it IS an issue on a 12 inch machine) then maybe there are easier way,
> i.e. change forum.

i think i answered each point…if not ask again in a different way
and maybe will better understand your questions…

you do not have to change from using your browser.

so, what is the problem?

> @DENVERD
> BTW. The “shout post” was not posted from NNTP, it was posted
> regularly with the browser from the forum

oh, i see now what happened…yes, print which is marked ‘bold’ in the
http side shows up in the nntp clients as all capitals…

dragonbite · April 16, 2010, 6:37pm

Ok, I can see it being a benefit to low-bandwidth users.

Honestly, it doesn’t sync between connection methods with your account and subscriptions? I would think that should be an account-level attribute.