Hi,
Tumbleweed should always be the newest right? And there is no thing like a distributionupdate?
But when I did ‘sudozypper dup’ after ‘sudo zypper update’ a lot of updates and deletes(old stuff I guess) happened and I don’t understand why.
I thought thatTumbleweed is always the newest distro so it seemed only logical thata distro upgrade should do nothing…?
I would like tounderstand what is happening here, can anybody explain this to me?
Kind regards!
Yes.
And there is no thing like a distributionupdate?
Every Tumbleweed update is a “distribution upgrade” basically.
And “zypper dup” means “Distribution UPgrade”.
Although you should be ok with running “zypper up” or using your desktop’s updater most of the time.
But when I did ‘sudozypper dup’ after ‘sudo zypper update’ a lot of updates and deletes(old stuff I guess) happened and I don’t understand why.
Well, packages (might) get added, dropped, renamed, downgraded.
That’s why you should use “zypper dup” to update your Tumbleweed system (from time to time at least).
“zypper up” cannot cope with that.
I thought thatTumbleweed is always the newest distro so it seemed only logical thata distro upgrade should do nothing…?
Because Tumbleweed is “always the newest distro” you will often have updates.
A “distro upgrade” (i.e. “zypper dup”) doesn’t do anything special. It basically just installs the highest available versions from all configured repositories. It doesn’t magically add any repos and/or switch to a newer openSUSE release.
And “zypper dup” ignores the vendor, i.e. from which repo the packages were originally installed from, whereas “zypper up” will only install updates from the same repo.
This might explain why you see updates that you don’t see with “zypper up”.
Maybe you shold post your repo list:
zypper lr -d
zypper lr -d
—±------------------------------------±--------------------------±--------±--------±---------±-------±---------------------------------------------------------------------------±-------
1 | download.opensuse.org-non-oss | Main Repository (NON-OSS) | Yes | Yes | 99 | yast2 | http://download.opensuse.org/tumbleweed/repo/non-oss/ |
2 | download.opensuse.org-oss | Main Repository (OSS) | Yes | Yes | 99 | yast2 | http://download.opensuse.org/tumbleweed/repo/oss/ |
3 | google-chrome | google-chrome | Yes | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://dl.google.com/linux/chrome/rpm/stable/x86_64 |
4 | google-talkplugin | google-talkplugin | Yes | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://dl.google.com/linux/talkplugin/rpm/stable/x86_64 |
5 | http-download.opensuse.org-f4f853a2 | home:m_clauss | Yes | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/m_clauss/openSUSE_Factory/ |
6 | http-ftp.gwdg.de-3ca8c7fe | Packman Repository | Yes | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/packman/suse/openSUSE_Tumbleweed/ |
7 | http-ftp.gwdg.de-c35ac61f | Packman Repository | Yes | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/packman/suse/openSUSE_Tumbleweed/ |
8 | http-opensuse-guide.org-034c7ab2 | libdvdcss repository | Yes | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://opensuse-guide.org/repo/openSUSE_Tumbleweed/ |
9 | packman | packman | Yes | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://packman.inode.at/suse/openSUSE_Tumbleweed/ |
10 | repo-non-oss | openSUSE-Factory-Non-Oss | Yes | Yes | 99 | yast2 | http://download.opensuse.org/factory/repo/non-oss/ |
11 | repo-oss | openSUSE-Factory-Oss | Yes | Yes | 99 | yast2 | http://download.opensuse.org/factory/repo/oss/ |
12 | repo-update | openSUSE-Factory-Update | Yes | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://download.opensuse.org/update/factory/
Well, I suppose that “zypper dup” switched some packages to the Packman versions then, or maybe back to the crippled openSUSE versions.
I would recommend you to give Packman a higher priority (lower priority number) to prefer the packages from there.
Two notes regarding your repos:
On 03/25/2015 02:16 PM, wolfi323 wrote:
>
> yuryen;2701511 Wrote:
>> zypper lr -d
> Well, I suppose that “zypper dup” switched some packages to the Packman
> versions then, or maybe back to the crippled openSUSE versions.
> I would recommend you to give Packman a higher priority (lower priority
> number) to prefer the packages from there.
>
> Two notes regarding your repos:
>
> - You have Packman 3 times (#6, #7, #8). That’s unnecessary, you can
> remove two instances.
> - The standard OSS and NON-OSS repos are duplicated as well. Remove
> the “factory” ones (#10, #11), according to plan they will be removed
> next month. And for the same reason you should better replace the
> update repo (#12) with http://download.opensuse.org/update/tumbleweed/
> …
>
>
There are no update repos for TW. The URL you provide does not exist or
is a hidden directory.
Ken
This is typical.
A regular version such as 13.2 is in maintenance mode after release. Nothing is updated unless that is really needed to solve a problem.
With Tumbleweed, whenever a package is recompiled, it will show up as an update (after it has passed OpenQA testing). So it is common to see many updates, maybe a few downgrades and/or deletions.
If you prefer to update less often, with fewer packages updated each time, then stick to a normal released version such as 13.2.
There is.
For critical security fixes in case of emergencies, when Tumbleweed proper cannot be published because of other problems.
See openSUSE:Tumbleweed installation - openSUSE Wiki
The URL you provide does not exist or
is a hidden directory.
It does exist.
But it is a server-side redirect to http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/openSUSE:/Factory:/Update/standard/ .
Still, clicking on the posted link works fine here in Konqueror, you should not omit the trialing ‘/’ though.
And it doesn’t matter anyway, zypper has to be able to reach it.
So, thanks for all the reactions 
I did what Wolfi323 suggested and after that a zypper up and after that a zypper dup.
However, during the zypper dup I got the message that some stuff was removed AND that a new repo was added and now I got the following with again (the previously removed) packmans installed :?
This is what I get:
zypper lr -d
–±------------------------------------±--------------------------±--------±--------±---------±-------±---------------------------------------------------------------±-------
1 | download.opensuse.org-non-oss | Main Repository (NON-OSS) | Yes | Yes | 99 | yast2 | http://download.opensuse.org/tumbleweed/repo/non-oss/ |
2 | download.opensuse.org-oss | Main Repository (OSS) | Yes | Yes | 99 | yast2 | http://download.opensuse.org/tumbleweed/repo/oss/ |
3 | google-chrome | google-chrome | Yes | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://dl.google.com/linux/chrome/rpm/stable/x86_64 |
4 | google-talkplugin | google-talkplugin | Yes | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://dl.google.com/linux/talkplugin/rpm/stable/x86_64 |
5 | http-download.opensuse.org-f4f853a2 | home:m_clauss | Yes | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://download.opensuse.org/update/tumbleweed/ |
6 | http-ftp.gwdg.de-3ca8c7fe | Packman Repository | Yes | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/packman/suse/openSUSE_Tumbleweed/ |
7 | packman | packman | Yes | Yes | 98 | rpm-md | http://packman.inode.at/suse/openSUSE_Tumbleweed/ |
Also I don’t understand what nr. 5 (mr. M Clauss) is. Is that normal? It doesn’t look official…
Do I have to many or do I have to few?
And if one uses the package updater (with the GUI), is that an up and **dup **both?
Actually, it’s a bit complicated (however, I’ve never seen such a beatiful and impressive OS as (specificaly) openSUSE Tumbleweed Gnome 
). I whish I had learned this at highschool!
You probably got the message that some applications were removed, but the update installed the corresponding packages.
That’s a flaw in zypper’s new (in 13.2 already) feature of applications.
AND that a new repo was added and now I got the following with again (the previously removed) packmans installed :?
“zypper dup” does not add any repos.
Can you please remove that repo, run “zypper dup” again, and post the output about the added repo?
Maybe some package adds the repo? But I have no idea what package that could be.
Also I don’t understand what nr. 5 (mr. M Clauss) is. Is that normal? It doesn’t look official…
No that’s not normal.
You must have added it at some point.
You can use YaST’s Repositories View (click on “View” and select “Repositories”, to find out which packages are available in that repo.
If you don’t need them, you could just remove that repo.
Do I have to many or do I have to few?
Only you can answer that.
You have the required repos, and some additional ones.
You should know yourself if you need the additional ones.
Normally on Tumbleweed additional repos are less necessary, as Tumbleweed contains the latest versions of all included software anyway.
You only need additional repos for software that’s not included in the distribution (like google-talkplugin and google-chrome in your list).
And if one uses the package updater (with the GUI), is that an up and **dup **both?
That’s an “up”.
And as PackageKit is not really good in resolving conflicts (it doesn’t allow the user to choose when there is a conflict, but just aborts), it might not even work.
Again, you should run “zypper dup” once in a while anyway. But most of the time you should be fine with just using the Updater.
[quote="“wolfi323,post:9,topic:107798”]
Sorry for the somewhat ‘late’ reaction, I was busy 
To make things more confused I did a zypper up and ‘also’ got a (partial?) dup (see text in red). So now I’m confused about the whole concept/difference of the role of up and/or dup in Tumbleweed!
sudo zypper update
root’s password:
Loading repository data…
Reading installed packages…
The following package update will NOT be installed:
libqpdf13
The following NEW package is going to be installed:
kernel-desktop-3.19.2-1.2
The following 13 packages are going to be upgraded:
libcacard0 nilfs-utils openSUSE-release openSUSE-release-ftp qemu qemu-block-curl qemu-ipxe qemu-ksm qemu-seabios qemu-sgabios qemu-tools qemu-vgabios qemu-x86
The following product is going to be upgraded:
“openSUSE Tumbleweed”
13 packages to upgrade, 1 new.
Overall download size: 52,0 MiB. Already cached: 0 B After the operation, additional 219,7 MiB will be used.
Continue? [y/n/? shows all options] (y): y
Retrieving package qemu-ipxe-1.0.0-2.4.noarch (1/14), 1,3 MiB ( 1,5 MiB unpacked)
Retrieving: qemu-ipxe-1.0.0-2.4.noarch.rpm …[done (727,5 KiB/s)]
Retrieving package qemu-seabios-1.7.5.1-2.4.noarch (2/14), 129,2 KiB (395,5 KiB unpacked)
Retrieving: qemu-seabios-1.7.5.1-2.4.noarch.rpm …[done]
Retrieving package qemu-sgabios-8-2.4.noarch (3/14), 47,6 KiB ( 4,0 KiB unpacked)
Retrieving: qemu-sgabios-8-2.4.noarch.rpm …[done]
Retrieving package qemu-vgabios-1.7.5.1-2.4.noarch (4/14), 64,9 KiB (184,0 KiB unpacked)
Retrieving: qemu-vgabios-1.7.5.1-2.4.noarch.rpm …[done]
Retrieving package libcacard0-2.2.0-2.4.x86_64 (5/14), 62,7 KiB ( 50,0 KiB unpacked)
Retrieving: libcacard0-2.2.0-2.4.x86_64.rpm …[done]
Retrieving package nilfs-utils-2.1.6-1.1.x86_64 (6/14), 104,4 KiB (309,6 KiB unpacked)
Retrieving: nilfs-utils-2.1.6-1.1.x86_64.rpm …[done (699,7 KiB/s)]
Retrieving package openSUSE-release-ftp-20150328-1.2.x86_64 (7/14), 7,1 KiB ( 66 B unpacked)
Retrieving: openSUSE-release-ftp-20150328-1.2.x86_64.rpm …[done]
Retrieving package qemu-2.2.0-2.4.x86_64 (8/14), 215,2 KiB (682,1 KiB unpacked)
Retrieving: qemu-2.2.0-2.4.x86_64.rpm …[done]
Retrieving package qemu-block-curl-2.2.0-2.4.x86_64 (9/14), 51,8 KiB ( 20,9 KiB unpacked)
Retrieving: qemu-block-curl-2.2.0-2.4.x86_64.rpm …[done]
Retrieving package qemu-ksm-2.2.0-2.4.x86_64 (10/14), 48,5 KiB ( 304 B unpacked)
Retrieving: qemu-ksm-2.2.0-2.4.x86_64.rpm …[done]
Retrieving package qemu-tools-2.2.0-2.4.x86_64 (11/14), 562,4 KiB ( 3,2 MiB unpacked)
Retrieving: qemu-tools-2.2.0-2.4.x86_64.rpm …[done (932,2 KiB/s)]
Retrieving package openSUSE-release-20150328-1.2.x86_64 (12/14), 200,6 KiB (297,6 KiB unpacked)
Retrieving: openSUSE-release-20150328-1.2.x86_64.rpm …[done]
Retrieving package qemu-x86-2.2.0-2.4.x86_64 (13/14), 2,3 MiB ( 13,4 MiB unpacked)
Retrieving: qemu-x86-2.2.0-2.4.x86_64.rpm …[done (1,9 MiB/s)]
Retrieving package kernel-desktop-3.19.2-1.2.x86_64 (14/14), 46,9 MiB (219,7 MiB unpacked)
Retrieving: kernel-desktop-3.19.2-1.2.x86_64.rpm …[done (2,1 MiB/s)]
Checking for file conflicts: …[error]
Detected 3 file conflicts:
File /boot/.vmlinuz-3.19.2-1-desktop.hmac
from install of
kernel-desktop-3.19.2-1.2.x86_64(Main Repository (OSS))
conflicts with file from package
kernel-desktop-3.19.2-1.1.x86_64(@System)
File /boot/vmlinux-3.19.2-1-desktop.gz
from install of
kernel-desktop-3.19.2-1.2.x86_64(Main Repository (OSS))
conflicts with file from package
kernel-desktop-3.19.2-1.1.x86_64(@System)
File /boot/vmlinuz-3.19.2-1-desktop
from install of
kernel-desktop-3.19.2-1.2.x86_64(Main Repository (OSS))
conflicts with file from package
kernel-desktop-3.19.2-1.1.x86_64(@System)
I’ll try to explain the basic difference between “up” and “dup” in detail:
IOW, “dup” tries to mirror the configured repositories to your system, so to say.
Whereas “up” only installs updates (from the same repo).
The vendor change only comes into play when you use third-party repos like Packman, that contain packages that are also part of the distribution. In this case, “dup” may switch between them (it takes the highest available version, no matter where it comes from), whereas “up” will never do that. So “up” will not switch packages to the Packman version, but “dup” might even switch it back to the normal, crippled version. That’s why you probably should give the Packman repo a higher priority.
As normally the packages in Tumbleweed (or other repos, for that matter) are only updated, i.e. the version numbers increase only, “up” should be ok. But, it can happen that a package gets downgraded. In this case, “up” will do nothing, whereas “dup” will install the newer, lower, version.
And that’s basically it. Just some rules are slightly different between “dup” and “up” in evaluation what “updates” to install.
“dup” is just better suited for a distribution upgrade, that’s why it is called “dup”.
In your output, you see e.g.:
The following package update will NOT be installed:
libqpdf13
This means, that a libqpdf13 with a higher version number is available (in Packman probably), but “zypper up” won’t install it because it comes from a different repo. “zypper dup” will install it.
On 03/30/2015 08:36 AM, wolfi323 wrote:
>
> yuryen;2702209 Wrote:
>> To make things more confused I did a zypper up and ‘also’ got a
>> (partial?) dup (see text in red). So now I’m confused about the whole
>> concept/difference of the role of up and/or dup in Tumbleweed!
> I’ll try to explain the basic difference between “up” and “dup” in
> detail:
> - “up” only installs updated packages, and only installs updates coming
> from the same repo.
> - “dup” also downgrades packages if only a lower version is present in
> the repos, and ignores from which repo a package comes from (i.e. it
> allows “vendor change”).
Depending on the priority of the repos. IF, for example packman has a
higher priority (lower number), packages will not switch from packman to
OSS.
>
> IOW, “dup” tries to mirror the configured repositories to your system,
> so to say.
> Whereas “up” only installs updates (from the same repo).
>
We MUST also keep in mind that EVERY new release of TW IS a distribution
upgrade just as going from openSUSE 13.1 to openSUSE 13.2 is a
distribution upgrade. That is why using dup is the preferred method.
Ken
Ah, thank you very much, NOW I finally understand this!
As an average user it’s not what I would expect (from the meaning of the words update and distribution upgrage but or even want (“dup” also downgrades packages if only a lower version is present in the repos") but it’s clear to me
On 03/30/2015 08:47 AM, Ken Schneider wrote:
> On 03/30/2015 08:36 AM, wolfi323 wrote:
>>
>> yuryen;2702209 Wrote:
>>> To make things more confused I did a zypper up and ‘also’ got a
>>> (partial?) dup (see text in red). So now I’m confused about the whole
>>> concept/difference of the role of up and/or dup in Tumbleweed!
>> I’ll try to explain the basic difference between “up” and “dup” in
>> detail:
>> - “up” only installs updated packages, and only installs updates coming
>> from the same repo.
>> - “dup” also downgrades packages if only a lower version is present in
>> the repos, and ignores from which repo a package comes from (i.e. it
>> allows “vendor change”).
>
> Depending on the priority of the repos. IF, for example packman has a
> higher priority (lower number), packages will not switch from packman to
> OSS.
I retract the previous statement.
>
>>
>> IOW, “dup” tries to mirror the configured repositories to your system,
>> so to say.
>> Whereas “up” only installs updates (from the same repo).
>>
>
> We MUST also keep in mind that EVERY new release of TW IS a distribution
> upgrade just as going from openSUSE 13.1 to openSUSE 13.2 is a
> distribution upgrade. That is why using dup is the preferred method.
>
> Ken
I know, thats exactely where my confusion came from. I didn’t understand why dup existed because I thought that up WAS dup because Tumbleweed has no ‘newer’ distribution.
And now thanks to that tip I changed my repo’s a little
zypper lr -d
–±------------------------------------±--------------------------±--------±--------±---------±-------±---------------------------------------------------------------±-------
1 | download.opensuse.org-non-oss | Main Repository (NON-OSS) | Yes | Yes | 98 | yast2 | http://download.opensuse.org/tumbleweed/repo/non-oss/ |
2 | download.opensuse.org-oss | Main Repository (OSS) | Yes | Yes | 99 | yast2 | http://download.opensuse.org/tumbleweed/repo/oss/ |
3 | google-chrome | google-chrome | Yes | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://dl.google.com/linux/chrome/rpm/stable/x86_64 |
4 | google-talkplugin | google-talkplugin | Yes | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://dl.google.com/linux/talkplugin/rpm/stable/x86_64 |
5 | http-download.opensuse.org-f4f853a2 | home:m_clauss | Yes | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://download.opensuse.org/update/tumbleweed/ |
6 | http-ftp.gwdg.de-3ca8c7fe | Packman Repository | Yes | Yes | 97 | rpm-md | Index of /pub/linux/packman/suse/openSUSE_Tumbleweed/ |
7 | packman | packman | Yes | Yes | 97 | rpm-md | http://packman.inode.at/suse/openSUSE_Tumbleweed/ |
KEN!!! D*MN:'(
I just changed it :?
Don’t worry, doesn’t matter:)
Sorry but now I think about my reaction (was also bit meant as ‘funny’) but I didn’t want to offent you!
My apologies.
On 03/30/2015 09:46 AM, yuryen wrote:
>
> yuryen;2702219 Wrote:
>> KEN!!! D*MN:’(
>>
>> I just changed it :?
>>
>> Don’t worry, doesn’t matter:)
>
> Sorry but now I think about my reaction (was also bit meant as ‘funny’)
> but I didn’t want to offent you!
>
> My apologies.
>
>
No offense taken. Just keep in mind that the repo priorities can have an
effect on what gets installed and from where.
Ken
I will do that. How to prioritize/decide is an other (much more!) difficult thing
Tnx Ken
imho it should be added into the Tumbleweed instruction webpage: “how to keep tumbleweed update” and a reference to not use the online update tool…
Once again: tumbleweed will get more and more noob users (like me) thanks to gnome 3.16 and its rolling nature (being at the same time easy to use).
Thanks