Disappointment in SuSE and HP.

English Install/Boot/Login
1

I recently, Oct 17th, 2014, purchased a New Refurbished HP 500-277c i7-Quad computer. It’s installed OS is Windows 8. Spent over a week jumping thru hoops and finally found that I had to hold my tongue on the left side of my mouth instead of the right. Some of you have probably, no I know you have, gone thru this same scenario IF you have one of these machines.

Anywho, I finally got openSuSE 13.1 installed on my machine. I was even able to do one of my Android builds. Great!! It only took an hour versus the 6 to 8 hours on my old machine.

Then the catastrophe. I would have liked to move up to openSuSE 13.2. So, the FIRST thing that we are supposed to do… IF … you are doing an “UpDate” is to … UpDate your “current” system. So I went into Yast2 and the Software. Selected Packages and then selected “Update all that are newer”. There were 29 items. So I clicked on ok. It did its thing and all “looked” ok… UNTIL I restarted the PC!! The boot sector got wiped!! F9 - F10 … None of them got me to anything that would get my Windows back. I really don’t understand how these updates can/could screw up my BIOS. -BUT- they did. Notice the date at the beginning of this. This is my 6th FULL recovery. Learning process is steep. My first UEFI/Win8 machine as a Dual Boot.

Now then, since my machine was destroyed … again … I decided to put back the Windows and then just install a “New Copy” of openSuSE 13.2. That way I wouldn’t have to worry about UpDating. Well, it is NOT that simple. Got the same thing in this “Released” version of 13.2 that I got in the “Pre-Releases”. It did NOT understand my Partitions. I have/had a 931GB C: drive which I reduced down to 462GB for Win8 and then had 457GB for Linux. This was done via Win Disk Manager -AND- 13.1 understood it. Version 13.2 wants to use the whole 931GB. It does NOT recognize that Windows 8 is already there!!

I don’t want to go to another Linux… so I guess I’ll just have to go back to 13.1 -and- NOT accept any UpDates. I seem to always get the weird machines.

IF anyone has experienced similar things -and- has a fix… please let me know.

Oh… a question. How important -and- is it absolutely necessary to update the current system before updating to a newer version. I mean after I get the 13.1 installed … can I just go straight to 13.2???

Thanks,
-Chuck

2

On Wed 05 Nov 2014 12:06:01 PM CST, chucktr wrote:

I recently, Oct 17th, 2014, purchased a New Refurbished HP 500-277c
i7-Quad computer. It’s installed OS is Windows 8. Spent over a week
jumping thru hoops and finally found that I had to hold my tongue on the
left side of my mouth instead of the right. Some of you have probably,
no I know you have, gone thru this same scenario IF you have one of
these machines.

Anywho, I finally got openSuSE 13.1 installed on my machine. I was even
able to do one of my Android builds. Great!! It only took an hour
versus the 6 to 8 hours on my old machine.

Then the catastrophe. I would have liked to move up to openSuSE 13.2.
So, the FIRST thing that we are supposed to do… IF … you are doing
an “UpDate” is to … UpDate your “current” system. So I went into
Yast2 and the Software. Selected Packages and then selected “Update all
that are newer”. There were 29 items. So I clicked on ok. It did its
thing and all “looked” ok… UNTIL I restarted the PC!! The boot sector
got wiped!! F9 - F10 … None of them got me to anything that would get
my Windows back. I really don’t understand how these updates can/could
screw up my BIOS. -BUT- they did. Notice the date at the beginning of
this. This is my 6th FULL recovery. Learning process is steep. My
first UEFI/Win8 machine as a Dual Boot.

Now then, since my machine was destroyed … again … I decided to put
back the Windows and then just install a “New Copy” of openSuSE 13.2.
That way I wouldn’t have to worry about UpDating. Well, it is NOT that
simple. Got the same thing in this “Released” version of 13.2 that I got
in the “Pre-Releases”. It did NOT understand my Partitions. I have/had
a 931GB C: drive which I reduced down to 462GB for Win8 and then had
457GB for Linux. This was done via Win Disk Manager -AND- 13.1
understood it. Version 13.2 wants to use the whole 931GB. It does NOT
recognize that Windows 8 is already there!!

I don’t want to go to another Linux… so I guess I’ll just have to go
back to 13.1 -and- NOT accept any UpDates. I seem to always get the
weird machines.

IF anyone has experienced similar things -and- has a fix… please let
me know.

Oh… a question. How important -and- is it absolutely necessary to
update the current system before updating to a newer version. I mean
after I get the 13.1 installed … can I just go straight to 13.2???

Thanks,
-Chuck

Hi
The boot sector isn’t wiped (doesn’t exist with uefi/gpt), but the
efivars in nvram may be disturbed, for HP systems, if you press F9 at
boot you can get to the efi boot menu? Not familiar with your system,
so can you check that an efi menu appears?

One good thing about UEFI is that you can boot from a live USB CD (eg
openSUSE 13.1 rescue) and with out having to mount/chroot this and that
(as in mbr) just re-add the windows or any other OS efi entries since
it’s the boot OS talking to the hardware, not a disk.

Just remember if you update windows 8 to 8.1 it will potentially
destroy any other OS as it creates additional partitions…

So, what I suggest is if you confirm you can press the F9 key, and see
either the efi entries of select ‘boot from efi file’ entry you should
be all good to boot if the efivars in nvram plays up.

Then once booted into open SUSE you can either manually recreate via
efibootmgr, or the command update-bootloader --reinit.

–
Cheers Malcolm °¿° LFCS, SUSE Knowledge Partner (Linux Counter #276890)
SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 12 GNOME 3.10.1 Kernel 3.12.28-4-default
If you find this post helpful and are logged into the web interface,
please show your appreciation and click on the star below… Thanks!

3

It always sucks when an installation or update goes awry. Doesn’t matter what distro you’re using either, it just plain sucks.

Going from 13.1 to 13.2 is outlined pretty well here : https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:System_upgrade

I’m not too knowledgeable with installing openSUSE myself, and definitely not with anything post-Windows 7 so I cannot help you there.

There has been mention about a Grub 2 issue (moving from Grub to Grub 2) which requires running a rescue or something from the DVD ISO (booting into it on a Live USB ).

4

Well, I’m a member of the Bullheaded, Hard headed Taylor clan. Never say never…

I did the FULL recovery. could NOT get a bootable system of any kind, with any key combo. Since I had/have nothing to loose except time I went for the FULL and started anew.

Could NOT do a FRESH install of 13.2. It did NOT recognise my partitions. It only saw the 931GB as a whole and nothing concerning the Windows. I had already divided up the partition so that there would be room for both … and that was NOT recognised by 13.2.

How-some-ever, I could Re-Install 13.1. It DID recognise my Windows and the Partitions. After installation I checked the updates and all but 3 were concerned with “Apparmor” which I did not install and do not want. So after UN-checking the apparmor ones I did the UpDate and the System was still ok. In case you are wondering … apparmor was giving me fits with my VMware and so I quit letting it be installed. As it turns out it looks like it might have been the reason for my crash in the last try at updating 13.1.

Anywho, that is all that I did … install 13.1 and check those updates. I then put the 13.2 DVD in and went thru the hoops to boot from my DVD and got the 13.2 update. This time the UpDate recognized my 13.1 partition. Previously it had not. So, I took the reins and started the UpDate. I added nothing. Just a straight update. IT WORKED!!! I am now booted up into 13.2 on my New Machine. -But- I must set up Java 7 again and all the other stuff for my Android compiles. But it is looking good -and- I have already Re-Booted into Windws 8 -and- back to Linux.

Thanks,
-Chuck

5

How is that diske partitioned GPT/EFI or MBR?

Did you at any time in the past try to install any Linux as MBR and the disk is based on GPT??

Mixing modes can cause many strange problems and if not full repaired can be lingering. It sounds like there was confusion over the partitioning tables one set of software seeing GPT the other MBR.

6

It is partitioned GPT/EFI. And yes I tried the legacy boot a couple of times when I was messing with gparted. And NO, I never tried the mixed modes. I’m not that dumb… almost … but not yet.:expressionless: I read a lot of the forums BEFORE I tried to install.

I lied on my last post. In the 13.2 install I lost my Windows boot option after the 13.2 install. Not sure how to get it back … yet, -but- any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
-Chuck

7

Well if you managed to create a MBR partition table it would fit the problem reported. Essential the first track needs to be wiped clean if that turns out to be the problem.

Did you boot to the BIOS boot menu? Is Windows still there? Can you boot Windows from there?

If Windows is there and boots you can go to Yast -boot and check box to scan for other OS.

If that does not work it can be done by command line

8

Well,
It sounds like you did a bunch of stuff that burns bridges…

From my experience using HP laptops for the past 10 years as my primary workhorse (My current is an HP Envy Touchsmart 17)…

  • Do not remove Windows. HP releases BIOS updates with an installer that runs only in Windows. If you remove Windows, you cannot ever update the BIOS.
  • Since approx 2009, HP removed the hardware strip of multimedia and system hotkeys that used to be just above the keyboard. Today, the hotkeys are implemented as alt-keys above the standard keyboard, sharing the F-function keys. HP has been wrestling with how to properly implement because the alt function is normally accessed through the OS, and of course when you first boot up, the OS isn’t loaded. Several BIOS updates have tried to apply a consistent behavior to these hotkeys but with limited success (partly because the F2 key seems to be wired to function differently than the others). As HP tries to fix this, you <must> be able to update your BIOS (so see the above). In the meantime, be aware that simply pressing something like F10 may not work and may require something like Fn-F10.
  • The first thing anyone who purchases an HP laptop must do is <make an emergency boot disk>. Once created, then you can always restore the disk from the HP restore partition. If you don’t make this disk on your own, you may have to pay for HP to ship one to you. Also, nowadays the HP/Windows restore clearly describes options that wipe out or retain your User files. Only a couple years ago, you could easily wipe everything despite what the described action is supposed to do.
  • Of course, don’t wipe out or touch the HP restore partition. Once it’s gone, you can’t restore or re-install the usual way. I don’t know if you can contact HP and have a full restore complete with Windows shipped to you. In any case, it’d probably be a lot more expensive than shipping you a simple boot disk (which last I checked cost about $20).
  • My personal preference and recommendation… I do not recommend UEFI boot, I recommend switching to “legacy” always. I don’t believe the extra security warrants the complexity and issues associated with any recovery scenario. This is one of may BIOS update settings I have to reset, but I feel it’s small compared to the problems it can cause when using default settings.

Considering the above and what you described doing… I’ll leave to you how to decide how you want toresolve the mess you find yourself in. There is nothing I know of about upgrading or updating openSUSE that should affect your boot partition. It’s too bad it sounds like too much has changed to try to determine what might have happened… If you ever find yourself in the same situation in the future, I strongly suggest you hop on IRC and/or these forums before you wipe out the means to recover.

Good Luck,
TSU

9

gogalthorp - Thanks for your suggestion. The “Look for another OS” was already checked -but- I clicked on the OK anyway. It did something as it exited and then…and then after doing a ReStart … I got my Windows selection in Grub again. Yes I can Dual Boot. Just a simple look and ok click. Touchy lil’ aminals… aren’t they.

TSU - Nope. I did not burn any bridges. -And- mine is NOT a laptop. You are another who reads more into what is there, than what there is, and reply with accusatory remarks to intimidate the person with the problem. Now IF you will read gogalthorp’s remarks you will learn how to be a little nicer and friendlier in your replies. I have been in this business for a long, long time -BUT- I don’t know everything, nor do I claim to. At times a suggestion from a friend helps to straighten out a minor problem… like this one turned out to be.

Thanks to gogalthorp,
-Chuck

10

Hi
Is the windows boot manager present in the output from (as root user)


efibootmgr

eg
Boot0000* Windows Boot Manager

Or are there entries like;


Boot0006* Internal Hard Disk or Solid State Disk

Either way, you can re-create via;


efibootmgr -c -L "Windows Boot manager" -l "\\EFI\\Microsoft\\Boot\\bootmgfw.efi"
11

On Wed 05 Nov 2014 07:46:01 PM CST, tsu2 wrote:

Well,
It sounds like you did a bunch of stuff that burns bridges…

From my experience using HP laptops for the past 10 years as my primary
workhorse (My current is an HP Envy Touchsmart 17)…

  • Do not remove Windows. HP releases BIOS updates with an installer that
    runs only in Windows. If you remove Windows, you cannot ever update the
    BIOS.
    <snip>

Hi
Well that’s a limitation of using Legacy rather than UEFI… I can
grab the update exe file, use cabextract on it, dump the firmware into
the required efi partition and then boot to that efi file and update
the BIOS.

I can add my own logo on the ProBooks (an openSUSE one :wink: ) with a HP
efi logo tool.

The only disks I brought from HP were the Windows 8 recovery disks
(US$17.00 incl. shipping) for my HP 2000 Notebook, you need at least a
32GB USB device for making a recovery set… don’t use it now, dumped
windows 8 off it, plus it’s a dead product now along with windows 7.

–
Cheers Malcolm °¿° LFCS, SUSE Knowledge Partner (Linux Counter #276890)
SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 12 GNOME 3.10.1 Kernel 3.12.28-4-default
If you find this post helpful and are logged into the web interface,
please show your appreciation and click on the star below… Thanks!

12

Thank you very much Malcolm. I will use these commands in my future endeavours.
-Chuck

13

IIRC, most of the Grub2 problems seem to be an inability to re-install Grub2 in BTRFS.

14

I haven’t finished the installation … yet, -but- wanted to keep those interested informed.

I did NOT use Legacy to install this… however, I could NOT install ver 13.2 directly. It did NOT see my partitioning and it did not see the Windows partition. I had to first install ver 13.1 and then UpDate to ver 13.2. The installer DID see my Linux Partition.

The Grub2 menu still says 13.1 -but- we have 13.2 installed.

So far it is looking good. Still need to install Java and all the other Android stuff -but- can Dual Boot with Windows 8. This is an opensuse-secure boot with UEFI. All I did was turn OFF the fastboot. Everything else is straight from the factory.

Well, that’s a lie!! I did have to mess with the boot order. This is accessed via tapping F10 at StartUp or ReStart. opensuse-secure boot becomes one in the list. I had to move it to the top.

Thanks to Malcolm and Gogalthorp,
-Chuck

15

Hehe… My laptop is still reporting 13.1 on the bootup(running13.2). I have even older pictures (as well here in the forum) on my workshop PC (i586 -2003) that was from openSUSE 1Xn and I manage to upgrade " on the roll" several version (it went bad on 13.2-btrfs/win XP and now new installed) that was showing the old name but the rest was 13.1. Never mind. Good that it seems to be working for you :). Or?

regards

16

The point is that if you have both a MBR and a GPT partition table it leads to odd problems like you see. At some point you managed to createe a MBR partition table on the hard drive. This lives in the first track. To fix it you have to zero out the first track . Basically it is easiest to wipe it all zero out at least the fist rack and re do the partitioning in a constant manner. Having both just confuses some software and there is no reason not to install both OS in the same format. In any case it appears you got it working now but you still probably have a phantom MBR partition table that may raise its ugly head again.

17

On 2014-11-05 19:56, chucktr wrote:

> After installation I checked the updates and all but 3
> were concerned with “Apparmor” which I did not install and do not want.
> So after UN-checking the apparmor ones I did the UpDate and the System
> was still ok.

IF you get in the update list some items referring apparmor, then it is
because you do have apparmor installed. You did not remove it.

AND, apparmor in 13.1 had initial problems (there is still a warning
about it in the release notes), and many of these problems were solved
later with updates.

> In case you are wondering … apparmor was giving me fits
> with my VMware and so I quit letting it be installed. As it turns out
> it looks like it might have been the reason for my crash in the last try
> at updating 13.1.

I doubt it.

I have apparmor installed and active, and it does not interfere with my
updates nor with vmware.

On 2014-11-06 20:26, chucktr wrote:

> I did NOT use Legacy to install this… however, I could NOT install ver
> 13.2 directly. It did NOT see my partitioning and it did not see the
> Windows partition. I had to first install ver 13.1 and then UpDate to
> ver 13.2. The installer DID see my Linux Partition.

This in itself is suspicious.

On 2014-11-07 00:56, gogalthorp wrote:

> The point is that if you have both a MBR and a GPT partition table it
> leads to odd problems like you see. At some point you managed to createe
> a MBR partition table on the hard drive. This lives in the first track.
> To fix it you have to zero out the first track . Basically it is easiest
> to wipe it all zero out at least the fist rack and re do the
> partitioning in a constant manner. Having both just confuses some
> software and there is no reason not to install both OS in the same
> format. In any case it appears you got it working now but you still
> probably have a phantom MBR partition table that may raise its ugly head
> again.

I think that you have to erase the first track and also somewhere at the
end of the disk, where there is a backup copy of the GPT. I think that
gparted has a feature to erase completely the gpt, but I’m unsure.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 13.1 x86_64 “Bottle” at Telcontar)

18

Yes there is a backup of GPT but not of MBR at the end of the disk AFAIK

19

On Fri 07 Nov 2014 12:35:07 AM CST, Carlos E. R. wrote:

I think that you have to erase the first track and also somewhere at the
end of the disk, where there is a backup copy of the GPT. I think that
gparted has a feature to erase completely the gpt, but I’m unsure.

Hi
gdisk is better…


gdisk /dev/sdX
x
z
y
y

This zaps the disk as in clears the gpt and zeros out the mbr.

–
Cheers Malcolm °¿° LFCS, SUSE Knowledge Partner (Linux Counter #276890)
SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 12 GNOME 3.10.1 Kernel 3.12.28-4-default
If you find this post helpful and are logged into the web interface,
please show your appreciation and click on the star below… Thanks!

20

On 2014-11-07 02:16, gogalthorp wrote:
>
> Yes there is a backup of GPT but not of MBR at the end of the disk AFAIK

True, but I think that you must erase both, to be sure. The command just
posted by Malcolm should work.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 13.1 x86_64 “Bottle” at Telcontar)