This makes no sense other than if Dell and Windows are violating anti-trust rules and forcing an extra cost on non-windows computers. Why do I say that? Dell offers the complete image of the Ubuntu install for free on their website, so you could buy the windows version, install the Ubuntu image and save $50. Given that Windows charges OEMs for their OS (otherwise how would they make any money off it?), and that charge is passed on in the price of the device, how is a free OS making the device cost more?!
How ?
My understanding is the Windows version comes with Bloatware. Dell are paid money by the software suppliers of the Bloatware, to put the Bloatware on the laptop (ultrabook). Dell likely receive more than $50 to put the Bloatware on the laptop, and they simply turn around and pass that savings on to the user who purchases the laptop with an OS that will run the Bloatware. The Bloatware does not run on GNU/Linux and hence Dell have no discount to pass on for a GNU/Linux laptop.
Yes its frustrating to see a laptop with a Free OS (Ubuntu) cost more than a Commerical OS (Windoze) … but I believe that Bloatware may be part of the explanation.
On 11/29/2012 08:56 PM, oldcpu wrote:
> Dell likely receive more than $50
> to put the Bloatware on the laptop, and they simply turn around and pass
> that savings on to the user who purchases the laptop
this is exactly what happens…
so, 6tr6tr do the right thing and buy the $50 cheaper Dell and install
Linux on it…you can decide to keep the Win, or not…(its still on my
hard drive [don’t need the space] but it has not been booted since the
first week after purchase…all the Bloatware makers who paid Acer for
an icon on the desktop LOST their money on me…i didn’t buy/extend
their ‘free’ AV or anything else!!!
–
dd
And don’t forget the stickers on the laptop, e.g. Windows 7/8. I expect Dell’s suppliers pay for that privilege, and Microsoft may deduct it from the licence.
Also you are just comparing one box of each. If they are costed and identified as different products, just a guess, they will sell rather more windows boxes than linux boxes - by a huge margin. 
Volumes will affect the price i.e reduce the Windows unit price even further.
Better check if that would affect Dell’s or the retailer’s warranty. Will the Ubuntu install image have to replace the Windows install?
The problem with that is Dell will think Windows sold another laptop for them when it was Linux. In the logn run your purchase of the windows version hurts the chances Dell will continue to make Linux devices.
This is true if nothing further done.
But if you wish to make a statement yourself when purchasing the MS-Windows version, you can always make the comment to Dell as to your intentions (to replace Windoze with a GNU/Linux) [either by Email or by simply noting it to one of their sales agents, giving them your purchase order number so that they know you are not making up some imaginary purchse] , and advise them that if they had not requested more money for the GNU/Linux version, you would have purchased that version instead.
I agree this is worth checking …
My guess is Dell will still honour the waranty wrt hardware, but of course will provide no operating system support. It may be worthwile reducing the Windoze partition to the smallest possible, and keep that OS, while installing GNU/Linux. Granted it is wasted hard drive space, but it will make it easier to :
- do future prom updates
- avoid any warranty concerns
Exactly
And it’s one reason why I recommend customers that use windows, do not keep the pre-installed version, but if they can afford it. Buy a full DVD of windows and do a clean install.
This isn’t the first time we have seen this silly pricing setup. IIRC, when the eeepc’s first came out it was a similar story.
On 11/29/2012 10:36 PM, 6tr6tr wrote:
> The problem with that is Dell will think Windows sold another laptop
> for them when it was Linux. In the logn run your purchase of the windows
> version hurts the chances Dell will continue to make Linux devices.
the others points (warranty, service and etc–as well as yours above)
are all valid!
the ‘easiest’ and probably ‘best’ way to go is to buy the hardware with
Linux installed–even though that is not the least initial cost…
you could think of the $50 extra as your donation to the cause of free
and open software…your vote for FOSS…or think of it as your
warranty fee…
(by the way, if it comes with Ubuntu and you install openSUSE (or even
Windoz) on it, that could as easily void the warranty or cause Dell to
withdraw support…)
–
dd
First of all,
if you can afford it, get the linux version, as was stated before it shows Dell we (as in GNU/Linux users) exist. Unfortunately, comments and letters can not be aggregated the way sales volumes can.
Bit of topic, but you will cope with it:
I have more than once considered buying Dell Laptops when I wanted to buy new hardware and I always did decide against it, because I could not find the much proclaimed Windows-free versions (as opposed to HP, which I finally bought). Are these available only in the USA?
Disturbing observation but unsurprising. The obvious solution is not to buy a laptop from Dell. Their laptops are rubbish anyway :).
This is a simplistic interpretation for three reasons:
- Dell really don’t care whether it’s 1% or 2% of their laptops that have Linux rather than Windows.
- Would you want Dell to think that if it’s worth supporting Linux, then let it only be Ubuntu?
- Would you really want to leave it to Dell to partition the drive as you want?
Linux isn’t free because one pays with with time rather than money. And that’s true for personal users, corporate users, as well as computer manufacturors. I think it’s a noble but unrealistic hope to expect Linux to enter the consumer mainstream because capitalist markets do not favour that kind of business model.
Specialist computer knowledge is required to provide adequate formal support and this is feasible in niche uses, such as servers and workstations, but not in the mainstream. The only situation in which this has successfully worked for a UNIX-based computer as a business model in the mainstream is Apple’s story. I’m just surprised they haven’t yet decided to void you guarantee once you obtain root privileges like for Android phones :).
But I agree asking an additional $50 for Ubuntu is ridiculous. I would suggest not paying the additional amount and installing the Linux distro you want yourself. Paying it to make a point would be a futile waste of money and nothing more than blind and zealous observance of religion for the sake it. And this kind of business model should not be supported financially by Linux users! Linux is about choice, freedom, and control. Do not deny yourself of these advantages!
On 2012-11-30 11:16, Nikos78 wrote:
> I have more than once considered buying Dell Laptops when I wanted to
> buy new hardware and I always did decide against it, because I could not
> find the much proclaimed Windows-free versions (as opposed to HP, which
> I finally bought). Are these available only in the USA?
I could not find the HP models with Linux installed, either 
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 “Asparagus” at Telcontar)
On Fri 30 Nov 2012 12:58:08 PM CST, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2012-11-30 11:16, Nikos78 wrote:
> I have more than once considered buying Dell Laptops when I wanted to
> buy new hardware and I always did decide against it, because I could
> not find the much proclaimed Windows-free versions (as opposed to HP,
> which I finally bought). Are these available only in the USA?
I could not find the HP models with Linux installed, either
http://h20331.www2.hp.com/hpsub/cache/537200-0-0-225-121.html
http://h71028.www7.hp.com/enterprise/cache/442781-0-0-0-121.html
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57476335-92/linux-comes-to-ultrabooks-dell-to-preload-os-on-xps-13/
–
Cheers Malcolm °¿° (Linux Counter #276890)
openSUSE 12.2 (x86_64) Kernel 3.4.11-2.16-desktop
up 2 days 22:18, 4 users, load average: 0.43, 0.19, 0.10
CPU Intel i5 CPU M520@2.40GHz | Intel Arrandale GPU
Looks like the game moved forward yesterday - this from PCWorld: Dell ships lightweight XPS 13 laptop with Ubuntu Linux
However, you will obviously need to compare Ubuntu vs Windows on similar models to see a difference in price.
On 2012-11-30 14:44, malcolmlewis wrote:
>> I could not find the HP models with Linux installed, either
>
>
> http://h20331.www2.hp.com/hpsub/cache/537200-0-0-225-121.html
> http://h71028.www7.hp.com/enterprise/cache/442781-0-0-0-121.html
That’s for USA. When I searched for my laptop in Spain, two years ago or
so, I found no Linux offerings.
I simply bought a Compaq at a supermarket, with an interesting discount.
It had Windows 7, and I added two oS install triple booting.
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 “Asparagus” at Telcontar)
Was any extra work needed to support special function keys/buttons, and other features e.g. suspend/resume, for the oS installs (not W7)? If so, how time consuming?
On 11/30/2012 10:16 AM, consused wrote:
> Was any extra work needed to support special function keys/buttons, and
> other features e.g. suspend/resume, for the oS installs (not W7)? If so,
> how time consuming?
There was certainly extra work in testing the configuration, and they may have
had to fix bugs in the wmi routine. All of these costs have to be covered by a
much more limited production run.
One other consideration is that things like the wireless card might be more
expensive so that a Linux driver is available.
On 2012-11-30 17:16, consused wrote:
>
> robin_listas;2507867 Wrote:
>> That’s for USA. When I searched for my laptop in Spain, two years ago
>> or so, I found no Linux offerings.
>>
>> I simply bought a Compaq at a supermarket, with an interesting
>> discount.
>> It had Windows 7, and I added two oS install triple booting.
> Was any extra work needed to support special function keys/buttons, and
> other features e.g. suspend/resume, for the oS installs (not W7)? If so,
> how time consuming?
No, it worked out of the box, almost everything. I filled an entry in
the HCL.
Let me see… the wifi button did not work correctly. ‘Off’ was ok, ‘on’
was not, required “rcnetwork restart”. This was corrected with 11.4.
The button that activates/deactivates the touchpad did switch off the
touchpad, but failed to reactivate it. 11.4 corrected it.
The touchpad is not disabled while I type, contrary to the
configuration. This is the worst problem for me.
I think those were the only problems - no, suspend to ram fails to
recover correctly. Hibernate to disk is fine.
There was a random kernel crash in 11.4, after two or more hibernation
cycles, which has been corrected in the very last kernel update, just at
11.4 EOL.
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 “Asparagus” at Telcontar)
Thanks for reply. So some “usual laptop suspects” didn’t work, and a few more of those on my lenovo thinkpad. I no longer believe laptop users who say ‘Everything worked OOTB on distro xx.x’, even if it did. It’s the special h/w support invisible to the kernel that’s ignored for whatever reason. :\
My notebook also had improvements with 11.4, thanks to the maintainer of a kernel module thinkpad_acpi and better soundchip support in alsa. Sound control buttons, function-key combinations for controlling brightness, multimedia and browser, rfkill switch, work ok since then. However, suspend function key invokes a state of coma, from which only a power-button reset (power off/on reboot) wakes it up, and so does s2ram. Hibernate (s2disk) works noisily, but the function-key combo is invisible to kernel, as are around seven other keys including management of wireless connections, battery and power, camera and mic mute settings, display settings, and input device settings. There is a wmi interface exposed but currently no wmi modules to handle it. Also, the fingerprint reader doesn’t work (no YaST and/or driver support).
Of course the notebook installed, loaded and ran the distro (openSUSE 11.2/3 and PCLOS) OOTB, not without the odd issue e.g. intel driver hiccups. 
I would happily have paid an extra $50 for that laptop h/w support, but I know it wouldn’t cover the many hours of work needed. That requires the kind of project set up between Ubuntu and Dell for the XPS 13 laptop - I say good for them!