Date and time formats

I know I should know this … and, I have done a lot of online searching and now give up on that.

Where is the configuration file that stores the Plasma5 date and time formats? I want to customize them. II really do not like that this issue still has not been fixed (AFAIK) by the Qt team upstream (or, that is why kde group says is the problem).

As I understand it, it isn’t a case of changing a configuration file. It seems that the ISO way of displaying dates is not supported in the software at all (how stupid can one be), thus there is no way to configure something to get what is not there.

Thanks, Henk. Yes, you are correct, which is why the Qt people have to fix it upstream. It finally clicked on me yesterday, I remembered that after all. Originally, when I posted, that got tangled up in the cobwebs, mould, & moss in my well-aged head.:open_mouth:

Don’ be to pessimmistic :wink:
We oldies can still cope with a lot of things here.

 > l ~/.config/plasma-localerc

Alternatively: System Settings; Personalisation; Regional Settings; Formats – Numeric, Currency and Time Formats.
Enable “Detailed Settings” and then choose “Time” from somewhere else. [Just for fun you could try Deutschland - Deutsch (de_DE). Or, any of the other many choices in that drop-down list.]
[HR][/HR]Given the heavy hints in the drop-down lists (fr_CA; en_CA; moh_CA; iu_CA; de_DE; ksh_DE; fr_FA; ca_FR; gsw_FR; . . . ) I suspect that the “default” Numeric, Currency and Time Formats are taken from the Linux (UNIX®) locale data.

I am afraid you missed some discussion here, which is in another thread:
Are you disappointed with the feature regressions in Plasma5? - Open Chat - openSUSE Forums from bout post #5.

We are not interested in trying out a hundred of country settings to see if the KDE developers have the idea that one of those countries uses the ISO format as some preference. We simply want the ISO format as a clear and foremost option in that endless list.

When you know that one of those country settings results in the ISO format, we may be intersted in hearing it from you. But I assume we still want that prominently in the list of choices for all other people that search for the ISO format.

For me it is still a show stopper in using this DE.

OK Henk, now I see – despite being “only” 4 years younger than you . . .
On the other hand the Qt5 Classes and, in particular the QDateTime Class, do not seem to be so different to the Qt4 world and things such as:

qDebug() << QDateTime::currentDateTime().toString(Qt::ISODate);

seem to be valid Qt5 C++ code.
And, things such as the Qt5 digiKam (Version 5.1.0) still offer imports to directories named with ISO date strings – makes photo storage by date much easier . . .
[HR][/HR]So, to be done:

  • In System Settings; Personalisation; Regional Settings; Formats – Numeric, Currency and Time Formats:

In the “Detailed Settings”: revert to the KDE4 Plasma scheme for “Numbers, Time, Currency, Measurement Units, Collation and Sorting”.
[HR][/HR]This will however (or, may possibly), cause pain: the KDE4 Plasma tabs were: “Numbers, Currency, Calendar system, Date and Time, Other”; where, “Other” had "Paper size, Units (Metric or Imperial) and Byte units (IEC, JDEC, or metric). Whether or not the Qt5 world (it possibly has) can deal with these details, remains to be seen.

[HR][/HR]Who’s going to be the brave person who’ll raise the appropriate KDE Change Request (aka Bug Report)?

AFAIK there is already a (hot) discussion over at the KDE forums (naturaly, because not only openSUSE users want to use ISO date format). Including developers there pointing to (im)possibilties of underlying software (like that Qt you are also mentioning).

For me it is not realy important how they explain that it can not be done (at least not at the moment). I am looking to this from the end-users viewpoint. And as long as this (and a few other regressions) are not cured, I will not use it. But I realy hate it that I now have to reserve time to test other DEs for their usability.

Hoo, boy, do I ever agree with this … especially the time spent hunting and testing alternatives! >:)

Searched the KDE Forums for “+Date +format” – didn’t find anything special, except for: <https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=134972&p=361579&hilit=Date+Format#p361579&gt;.

Yes, the KDE folks seem to prefer to brain storm issues in their Forum before the implementation is changed:

What is KDE Brainstorm about?
KDE Brainstorm is an area dedicated for posting constructive ideas about KDE. Ideas are reviewed, voted upon, and looked into by developers and/or pushed to bugs.kde.org if it turns out to be popular.

An issue that I have is, why on earth did the KDE folks change an acceptable configuration scheme (KDE4 Plasma System Configuration) to the scheme used by KDE Plasma 5?

  • I do not believe that, when it comes down to basic GUI user string issues that, Qt5 is so very different from Qt4.
  • Looking at applications which have been ported to Qt5 (including “heavyweights” as digiKam) no one else has changed their configuration schemes as much as the KDE folks themselves.

[HR][/HR]What can we do?
Continue complaining or possibly do something constructive?

Checking with Leap 42.2 Alpha 3: KDE Plasma 5 version 5.7.0; KDE Frameworks version 5.24.0; Qt version 5.6.1.
No change – still the same issue with fine tuning the locale presentation in KDE.

On this page, Plasma/5.0 Errata

https://community.kde.org/Plasma/5.0_Errata

under:
Missing features

Unable to edit individual locale settings - Can change locale used for setting groups such as currency or date/time, but cannot yet modify individual settings like short date format - Awaiting support upstream in Qt.

:wink:

Good find. Hope there’s some action on it soon though.

Actually, I had seen this before I even posted my opening post for this thread. :wink:

… as for “action soon”, that has been sitting there for a very long, long time (in IT years, as opposed to dog years), so please try not to hold your breath while waiting. I gave up on that once my eyes bugged out and my face turned blue! :stuck_out_tongue:

I had a “4 eyes face-to-face” discussion with one of the KDE people at the 2016 openSUSE Conference here in sunny Franken (northern Bavaria):

  • I have the impression that, the KDE folks have been mishandled by the “Internet Community” and are therefore sometimes resistant to requests for changes.
  • The outcome of the discussion was: yes, submit Bug Reports but, do not attempt to point to the code which needs to be changed.

[HR][/HR]How to proceed?
I suspect that this particular change can be progressed only by SUSE/openSUSE people who are close to the KDE community – please do not overlook that SUSE is a KDE Patron – openSUSE is not a KDE Patron because . . . it doesn’t have the funding needed for such activities . . .
We could attempt to push this issue to the openSUSE Board.

Still digging – also registered with the KDE Forums to be able to “vote” on Brainstorm issues –
[HR][/HR]KDE Bugtracking System: Bug 340982 - I cannot set my short date to YYYY-MM-DD, nor my time to HH:MM
Status CONFIRMED <https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982>
Comment #95 may be interesting for some folks: <https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982#c95>
[HR][/HR]KDE Brainstorm: Improve Locale Configuration in Plasma 5 <https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=124741> (gave it a “thumbs up”).
[HR][/HR]Reading through the KDE Bug 340982, I have the impression that there are some “purists” at work – for example Comment #21: <https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982#c21>:

  • There seems to be an issue plaguing the KDE Team with respect to “System locale”, “KDE (Plasma 5) locale” and “some other Linux User Space locale”.
  • Another issue seems to be “What!!! An individual user wants to customize their
    KDE (Plasma 5) locale??”

The excuse given for “not wanting to implement” seems to be that, KDE4 Plasma kept “everything separate” meaning, a non-KDE application running under KDE will almost certainly not respect the KDE User Space locale customisations.
I have given this Bug the maximum votes possible (as have the majority of those who have voted on this Bug).

Actually, the KDE folks seem to have the impression they have been mishandled …

I can see why when, in the arrogance among their cliques, they have chosen to ignore the wishes of the users about some of the most beloved features, thus drawing a lot of flack from the “Internet Community” – and deservedly so, since they often use the excuse “it cannot be done” (BS-it can so! There is no such thing as “can’t”!), or they do not respond at all after leaving the impression they “are working on it”.

That is the sign of a decaying – and no longer open – organization. I have seen it many times in the past 4+ decades.

I’m sad to say I see a lot of KDE threads/discussions supporting your evaluation. I’m still living in hope that some of the missing features/regressions will be sorted productively. Open minds and co-operation, and maybe even a few servings of humble pie are needed to keep the KDE community (users and developers) alive.

Please note I’m writing this as just another user, not as a board member: “Mishandled by the Internet Community” ??? What ?? And who is/are this “Internet community”? IMNSHO the reasoning behind the first statement is plain wrong. If you publicly announce stuff and this stuff is not received the way you expected, have a thorough look at the stuff, not at it’s readers/users.

Mind, though. Since osc16 a lot as happened, a lot of work has been done on the state of plasma5, and things have taken new directions, which IMO will improve things for both KDE and the distro ( users ).

@Knurpht: not your post!!

All very nice and fine but, I’m currently amazed and not convinced . . .
Looking at the list of KDE Patrons (bluesystems, Google, SUSE, Qt and Canonical) and, the list of donations, I have extreme difficulty in understanding why the companies funding the KDE project are allowing the current product status to continue. I mean, it’s all very nice and fine having a merit-based core team of people doing their very best to be innovative and ahead of the game but, given the maturity of KDE and it’s previous performance and merits, the decision to throw many things overboard just because the Framework supporting the application has been updated was IMHO not really justifiable:

The following list summarizes the changes in Qt 5:

  • Modularized codebase - This means only Qt essentials and the add-on modules you’re interested in are needed to develop an application. To know what makes the essentials and add-on modules, refer to the modules page.
  • Platform-specific code - Symbian and Meego-specific code is removed from the codebase.
  • Platform defines - All platform-specific code must be wrapped using the preprocessor macro, Q_OS_* instead of Q_WS_*.
  • Widgets - These are now part of a separate module, Qt Widgets. They were part of Qt GUI earlier.
  • Qt Quick - The older Qt Quick version (1.0) is now part of a separate Qt Declarative add-on module for compatibility purposes. We recommend using the new Qt Quick (2.0) from now on to avoid binary breaks in the future.
  • Qt3Support - This module is removed in Qt 5, so you must move away from this module before porting your codebase to Qt 5.
  • Qt WebKit - This module has been replaced with Qt WebEngine.
  • Multimedia - In Qt 5, multimedia support is provided by the Qt Multimedia module. Phonon framework is no longer part of Qt, but it continues to be maintained by the Phonon developers and has support for Qt 5. See http://phonon.kde.org.

<http://doc.qt.io/qt-5/portingguide.html&gt;
Please note that only the Qt3Support module has been removed – there is no mention of Qt4 specific items being removed – yes, yes, some Qt4 items have been moved but, not removed.