Corrupted Dual Boot system

English Install/Boot/Login
1

Dear all,
please spend some time reading my problem, commenting on my thoughts and providing me suggestions

  1. One and a half year ago I have asked in linux forums (I think that was in this forum) if opensuse provides stable ntfs support. I recall that I got the answer that yes it works.

  2. Then I decided to make a ntfs partition to keep inside my /home directory (yes the linux home directory) as I wanted to have one common My Documents folder so when I reboot between the two os to have the same files (readable and writable).

  3. This worked well for some period … but I see that there are times that I hvae lost files (eg. lost kwalletmanager’s file, and my thunderbird account). This might happen
    3a. because ntfs does not support features programmes that are designed for ext suppose that the filesystem supports.
    3b. or because sometimes windows find a lot of mistakes in ntfs partition and scandisk clean out files with problems.

  4. Question: What is the most - well - supported- fault free method to have read and write access to the same partition between windows and linux? My computer is a laptop so I have to rely on a same physical partition. How programs that are designed for either ext and ntfs can live together and peacefully?

  5. As my installation right now has the problems I mentioned in 3 what can I do to move all my data to a new state (eg. convert my current ntfs partition to the new Hybrid-Super-Ultra-File-System) to reduce further problems that I face now?

I would really want to thank you for your ‘understanding’

Best REgards
Alex

2

You picked the right method … but the wrong directory. Yous should NOT use ntfs for your /home directory under Linux. You should create a separeate ntfs partition for your data and access files here from both Linux and Windows. Further you can create a symlink so that this partition will appear as a subdirectory (under whatever name you call it) in your home directory under Linux.

3

Microsoft does not make enough information about there precious NTFS available for Linux to “totally” support it, although for most purposes, it is well supported.
I would always use a Linux file system for /home, perhaps link to your NTFS ?

  1. Then I decided to make a ntfs partition to keep inside my /home directory (yes the linux home directory) as I wanted to have one common My Documents folder so when I reboot between the two os to have the same files (readable and writable).
    I’m not sure how to read that.
4

That means that I want to have one directory called My Documents
common in the two operating systems.
In that way I have a shared place to save my files.

For example I have thunderbird reading the same files from ‘My Documents’ directory folder either if I am in Linux or in Windows so in both operating systems I have the same mail client working with the same profile. Thunderbird can write in both partitions so I can read, reply my emails whenever I am.

I did that also to virtual box. I installed my virtual machine under MY Documents directory so both operating systems use the same virtual machine.

These questions still remain
A. How can I do what I have just described? Having programs like thunderbird and virtual box that work the same in different operating systems. This assumes that there is a robust way of reading and writing files that works great for both operating systems.

B. What should I do now. Move my files to a new partition? What type of partition ?

5

Hi,

I did exactly what you’re trying to achieve, i.e. I have Thunderbird set up from linux windows (on a dual boot box) so that it uses the same data/accounts.

This is what I did.

First of all, install windows & Opensuse normally (ie. Opensuse with a normal , ext4 type home partition).

Remember that whilst linux can read/write to NTFS partitions, windows can’t read ext4.

So, you will need to use a directory on a windows ntfs drive as exchange point to frour data. No problem heere, Opensuse will have put the windows drives under the /windows directory.

Once you have installed windows & Opensuse, install Thunderbird on the windows machine. Set up a new caccount called “Account1” (or anything else you want, but I’ll use that name in the examples).

Now create a dir on any windows drive that Opensuse can also see. I’d suggest you call that dir “Mail”, but you can of course call it anything you want.
I’ll presume that it is localted on the “D:” drive, for the sake of the examples here.
In that dir create a new called “MaiAccount1” and another one called “MailBoxDetails” Again change the names t suit you.

Now, in thunderbird, change several pointers.
First of all change the local mail dir:

Accounts settings -> Local Files : local directory. set that to the “d:/Mail/MailBoxDetails” directory.
Likewise, for your account, under Accounts settings -> (your account) -> server settings : local directory, select the “d:Mail/MailAccount1” directory.

Restart thunderbird. Now all the mail should go into the “d:/Mail” directory and its subdirectoeirs.

Niow gointo Opensuse, and install/set up thunderbird with an account names Account1.

Here, likewise, change the account settings.

Sonce your account data is on “d:/Mail” under windows, it will be on “/windows/D/Mail” under Opensuse.

First of all change the local mail dir:

Accounts settings -> Local Files : local directory. set that to the “/windows/D/Mail/MailBoxDetails” directory.
Likewise, for your account, under Accounts settings -> (your account) -> server settings : local directory, select the “/windows/D/Mail/MailAccount1” directory.

Restart thunderbird.

Send yourself a mail from within linux, and receive it .

Quit Opensuse, boot into Windows, and check that you have that message also in you windows Thunderbird inbox now…

HTH

Lenwolf

6

I did exactly the same and it worked fine until one day… I closed thunderbird in Linux and restarted computer ( I wanted to use Windows)
Windows booted up and found that there are some problems in the D hard disk (I also have my mails in D:\mail) and started the scandisk

Since that scandisk I have lost two files that thunderbird was using to store my files and thus sharing data using ntfs in linux and windows I believe is a bad idea.

7

Yeah, well windows will do that…
There are three good ways to deal with that :

1- backup
2- backup
3- backup…

Lenwolf

8

On Windows install package EXT2FSD Ext2Fsd Project
Once installed you can have r/w access to you ext2 - ext4 partitions on a dual boot linux system. On OpenSuse make sure you installed ntfs-3g for r/w access your ntfs files on a dual boot Windows system.
You won’t need to create a NTFS partition to share files between systems.

I tend to treat Ext2FSD and ntfs-3g as a r/o access, copying files from Linux to Windows (and vice versus) to preserve the integrity of both systems, using the file systems as intended when extracting .zip .exe .rar, etc. I don’t like running a Windows installation program from a .exe on a Linux partition, so, I copy the .exe to Windows then execute the program.

9

I understand that this is the most safe way to handle files but in that case I can not have an instant access My documents files. Let’s say that I work in opensuse and I decide to go to windows , I have to think way in advance what files I want to use and transfer them to windows partition (this most of the time fails as I can not predict what I will need in the future). Also I can not have a thunderbird running on the two os reading the same inbox files from my hard disk.

In that case I think “we” should admit that a completely dual-boot system where files are used ‘directly’ is not feasible. (with the term directly I mean that I do not have to care which filesystem I am accessing and from which os).

10

You just have to create a separate NTFS partition under Windows to put your Thunderbird InBox and other stuff you want to share with Linux. It requires a little bit manual editing of Thunderbird profiles under Windows and Linux but you can have your InBox on whatever partition you like. What you should not do is sharing other system sensitive files or use ntfs for your home directory in Linux. I don’t know how safe it is nowadays to read/write ntfs on a regular basis. I assume it is safe but maybe not 100% safe enough. If it’s an issue for you rather keep two separate Inboxes on each OS native fs. Comparing and merging the inboxes from a script would be another option … or much better having your inbox on a Linux fileserver. So you could access it from any computer and any OS.

11

On 03/04/2011 10:06 AM, alaios wrote:
>
> In that case I think “we” should admit that a completely dual-boot
> system where files are used ‘directly’ is not feasible. (with the term
> directly I mean that I do not have to care which filesystem I am
> accessing and from which os).

i think the best way to manage it is to keep the games on the game
system and the work on the work system…and, don’t try to use both at
the same time…

and, as long as the game system maker refuses to open up the file
system source code you can expect there to be problems in trying to
use both at the same time…i mean, no non-game-system could write to
NTFS the whole of last century, and i don’t think it became
commonplace to even try to for most of the the first decade of this
century…

–
DenverD
CAVEAT: http://is.gd/bpoMD
[NNTP posted w/openSUSE 11.3, KDE4.5.5, Thunderbird3.0.11, nVidia
173.14.28 3D, Athlon 64 3000+]
“It is far easier to read, understand and follow the instructions than
to undo the problems caused by not.” DD 23 Jan 11

12

The caveat (copy/paste) is because Windows NTFS isn’t good managing space as Linux EXT3/4, so there’s the need to defrag Windows partitions after heavy usage.

With EXT2FSD you have instant access to files on the Linux partition, just like ntfs-3g provides instant access to files on Windows partitions. EXT2FSD allows you to mount your Linux partitions as drives on the Windows system. You can make /home/userid/ an H: drive on Windows for r/w instant access. Ntfs-3g allows you to mount windows partitions on /mountpoints ie, “My Documents” mounted /Windows/MyDocuments on Linux with instant access.

Using Ext2FSD you can put Thunderbird mail box on one file system for access from both OS. There may be an issue whether Thunderbird extensions/addons for Windows work with Thunderbird extensions/addons for Linux, or even if the directory structures are the same. Other than that you could install EXT2FSD point Windows Thunderbird to the Linux Thunderbird mailbox to see if works, if it doesn’t you would still be able to r/w to both OS without the need to waste space on another partition for the purpose of transferring files.

13

So If I got it right there are two alternatives. One ntfs-based and one linux-based. So far I tried the ntfs-based ( I mount a ntfs partition from Linux). I can also try to mount a Linux partition from Windows (using EXT2FSD). Do you also imply that the EXT2FSD is more stable and will create less problems in the filesystems that what my shared ntfs partition created me?

I would like to thank you in advance for your help

Regards
Alex

14

Hi, just one question :

Does the “Windows” partition have to be ntfs?
If I understood you correctly, you want one partition to be shared between Linux & windows, so as to use the data thereon indifferently from either OS.
Why not have a FAT32 partition? AFAIK this is well understood by windows & Linux and there are no problems like those with the ntfs drivers.
One caveat , though: Fat parititions are limited in size and max size of one file. IIRC, a file cannot be more than 4 GB large, and the size of a FAT32 partition is (I believe) 32 GB max.
If you only exchange standard documents and not things like large video files, though, this should be OK

HTH

Lenwolf

15

Note also the NTFS does not use the same Ownership model as Linux (ie permission bits) So this can cause confusion. Avoid having your entire Home on a NTFS. Just make a place where common data can be shared. You can symlink this to any place in your home file directory.

16

I guess it depends on which filesystem you prefer.
Linux:
Ext2FSD supports journal replay when mounted under linux, Ext4 (OS11.2-11.4) is supported except for extent support, better performance and storage for large files. Ext3/4 supports journaling, journal replay
Windows:
FAT32 limits your file sizes to less than 4k size, NTFS allows greater than 4k file sizes, both require separate chkdsk and defraging programs.

17

That should have been FAT32 is limited to less than 4Gb file size and NTFS can have greater than 4Gb file sizes.

18

I was using FAT32 for many years but I found it really inneficient as the storages were growing larger. My /home partition want to be even larger than 32GB. In the past I also had problems with FAT32 partitions so I decided to try ntfs. The only thing I did not try is to make my /home partition ext4 and try to mount it windows with ext2fsd as was suggested above. That’s why I asked if that is known to be more stable

19

Two comments here:
-Why use ext2FSD in Linux? I can’t mount my ext4 partition directly?
-NTFS created me so much problems so far in my Linux files (eg. kwalletmanager lost my wallet file)

20

On 03/09/2011 09:06 AM, alaios wrote:
>
> -NTFS created me so much problems so far in my Linux files (eg.
> kwalletmanager lost my wallet file)

to me it is obvious that Microsoft does not want folks to use
anything other than their products…since the early '90s anyone
trying to use anything else with MS-Windows has had “so much problems”…

to me, it is just not worth the effort to try to use two (or more)
systems at the same time…if you do, you must be willing to accept
the pain…

alternatively, you could write Redmond a nice letter and ask them when
they will guarantee you that their software will work perfectly and
trouble free with Linux, Mac, AIX, Solaris, etc etc etc. . .

guess what: they won’t even guarantee it will work perfectly with
itself–no matter how much they collect at the cash register!

one of my rules: never let any non-Linux operating system have access
to my Linux partitions, ever! (and, i have never had something else
eat my [for example] kwalletmanger)…and, think about this: if you
let your ms-Win have access to your Linux home, then what is to keep
the ms-virus, key logger and cracker’s file sweepers from stealing
your kwallet and all its secrets???

stay safe: do not let your game system eat your other stuff…

–
DenverD
CAVEAT: http://is.gd/bpoMD
[NNTP posted w/openSUSE 11.3, KDE4.5.5, Thunderbird3.0.11, nVidia
173.14.28 3D, Athlon 64 3000+]
“It is far easier to read, understand and follow the instructions than
to undo the problems caused by not.” DD 23 Jan 11